Japanese Arisaka Type 99 - I think, Need Help

[jeppers]

I got this rifle from a family friend and havent done anyhtign with it since i got it. From internet searches it appears to be a Arisaka 99, but there are several odd things about it that are making it very hard to pin down exactly what it is so I can sell it.
1. No markings of any kind - no areas that appear to have anything ground down.
2. No rear sight
3. The upper stock piece extends to the action and matches the wood of the bottom piece, so it doesn't appear to be mis matched.

If you have any idea of a value or any way to tell exactly what it is I would really appreciate it.

Thanks

 

[TehK1w1]

It appears to be a type 99. It's rather odd that the upper handguard extends that far back, though-it covers the part of the barrel that the rear sight is normally mounted on.
The lack of receiver markings is also rather unusual, although not unknown on the last-ditch rifles.

EDIT: Blowing up the second picture shows what look like faint characters stamped into the side of the receiver. Could you take a closer look, maybe at different angles to the light, and report if you find anything?

 

[Jim K]

I think it is a training rifle. If you can, remove the bolt and look at the locking lugs. If they are not there or are just nubs, that is what it is. Other indications are a barrel without rifling, and tangs cast in one piece with the receiver.

The lack of a sight is unusual, and perhaps the odd handguard was made to replace the original for one reason or another, or so the rifle could be tossed around in drills without the sight hurting the hands. It appears to have been welded to make it inoperable; I strongly recommend not trying to fire it or make it fireable.

Those training rifles were made of cheap cast iron and were intended either as dummy rifles or for firing only blanks. They are dangerous with live ammunition.

Jim

 

[jeppers]

Thanks for the information. I dont recall seeing any kind of markings on the side I have looked it over pretty thoroughly and did not see anything at different angles. I will check tonight for the lugs, rifling and tangs and let you know what I find. Any idea what I should try and sell something like this for?

 

[Jim K]

Well, let's see what it is first, as it is not a standard Type 99 or Type 38. Japanese rifles are still low on the value totem pole, even though colletor interest has risen considerably in recent years. There is even a modest collector interest in training rifles, but they still bring novelty prices, in the $100 range.

Note: If you sell a training rifle as a "real" rifle and someone is injured, you could be in trouble.

Jim

 

[gaponna]

I have one of these rifles too.. Its a 7.7mm cal ammuntion which I cant seem to find.. Mines the real thing though.. LOL

 

[Leadbutt]

From what little I can see it appears to be late war,lot of short cuts where taken then, its missing the dust cover and has had the "flower" ground off of the reciever,normaly done by the U.S.authorites for bring back weapons/captured ones, hard to tell what caliber, bolt release looks to be broken.

I remember seeing other "japs" with the hole centered in the reciver in the middle of the "flower", believe its issued as that way.

Don't believe the handguard is original, looks off in the front, back would be ok if it has a wooden lip that slides under the ring, but ther doesn't appear to be a cut out for the rear sight

 

[Jim K]

Note that absence of normal markings is a characteristic of training rifles. The "mum" was not ground; it was never there since the school boys who used those rifles were not considered servants of the Emperor. I will say again that I believe that is a training rifle and NOT intended for the firing of live ammunition.

Jim

 

[Ron James]

There you go again Jim, trying to confuse people with facts to keep them safe.

 

[imhatz]

help...just got a type 99 7.7mm....it has a modified bolt and am looking for an original the bolt in now is stamped 892 any ideas ?

 

[imhatz]

more info....now not sure it is a type 99 because someone says type 38 because of bolt stamp

 

[logjam]

All I can tell you for sure is that, if I were you; I would not shoot it.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Ron,

I have three of those training rifles and they have certain characteristics that should warn folks off, like no "mum", no regular serial number, odd shaped trigger guard and trigger, no rifling, tangs cast as part of the receiver, etc. Some of those you can't see in a picture, but there is enough in that one to make me highly suspicious.

For your amusement, the silliest story I heard about the ground "mum" was from a WWII vet. He was bragging about how he had captured his Type 99, wrestling it away from a Jap general (the Japanese and German armies had no privates, only generals) in hand-to-hand combat. I asked about the ground "mum", saying that it meant a rifle taken from a depot where the Japanese workers were allowed to grind off the emperor's seal. He informed me, with a sneer, that the mum had been there when he brought the rifle back, but that Harry Truman kept track of every one of those rifles and sent the FBI around to pick up the gun. He got it back, but the "feds" had ground the mum off. My respect for Harry went up. Imagine keeping track of every captured rifle and having time to be president as well! Not to mention writing letters to critics of Margaret's singing.

Our WWII vets may have been heroes, and the greatest generation, and we owe them a lot. But they were also, as a group, the biggest bunch of liars I have ever heard from!

Jim

 

[TEDDY]

arisaka.

how can you say that JIM ,just be cause its true.not all but some most in combat dont talk.I have a friend that was in battle of bulge,and its like pulling nails.my other friend fino/russian war and WW2 only talk last couple yrs before he past away.

 

[TEDDY]

type 38

that looks like a type 38.not a 99.the type should be 25" in barrel that looks longer.the screw on bolt release is broken.I thought I saw grind marks on the hole in receiver.
my picture gets blown up so much its hard to see.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

Gaponna - Cabellas has it. 18.00 +/- a box. Not great....Not terrible

Its the hornandy classic I believe....Tan box with red letters.

 

[Jim K]

Well, at the end of WWII, I was 13. And darn near every vet I met had captured Hitler personally, except for the ones who had captured Goering. Of course Hitler had gotten away but they turned old Herman over to General Patton (who else?) after taking away his Luger.

I must have seen a half ton of German pistols with "Herman Gerring" or something like that electric pencilled on the slide. I knew at least a dozen vets who had Hirohito's own pistol, which they had captured in hand-to-hand combat. I am sure most fought and fought well, and I honor them. But a whole lot of them surely "embellished" their experiences.

More recently, I met the son of a man who told me he had the M1 rifle his father had brought back from WWII. The father had been in the Battle of the Bulge and when he was supposed to get a medal from Patton (who else?), he asked if he could keep his rifle. Patton OK'd the deal. The only trouble was that I knew the old man before his son was born, and I was with him when he picked up the M1 from DCM at the express office. I also knew the man had never been out of the states. But he "re-invented" his military service for his son. Natural, I guess, but a bit less than "the whole truth."

Jim