.......just tell me NO and let's move on.....

[fxvr5]

Underside by two or three thousandths.

See post # 13.

 

[AJC1]

Underside by two or three thousandths.

I think that would be directly related to the gun being used. Many a conversion chamber has been used by ruger so I try hard not to be caught up by blanket statements or ideas.

 

[Palladan44]

Update- Loaded up a few rounds.
Was able to deprime and full length size in 38 dies, then only used the Dillon 9mm expander die/powder funnel which made the difference.... neck tension was much, much better. I applied a crimp adequate enough so the rounds chambered.

In pushing the rounds by hand, bullet nose on a block of wood to see if I could get the bullet to push into the case, and if I pushed fairly hard, I could get it to move.....but again, this is a highly non-scientific way to test real world neck tension.
I fired 5 of the 6 rounds, and kept the 6th one to see if it creeped forward under the light recoil that these were, and it did not.
My OAL on these were 1.420" and I used 5.0gr. 5.3gr and 5.5gr of BE-86
3 rounds of each.

Upon firing, I noticed no real difference in accuracy from my 3" new Colt King Cobra from about 7 yards.... again, I wasn't really expecting to. I did notice being able to see the bullets fly through the air at the 5.0gr loading, but not so much with 5.5gr.

I didn't set up the chrono.
I was able to keep all shots on a playing card at this distance, with most shots trending toward some sort of 1.5" grouping at this range, which has been the common standard for me with this gun at about 7 yards. No key holing.
I think I'm going to continue loading these, they're pretty good so far. And with the Nickel Plated casings I have a ton of, and these cool Black coated JHP Gold Dots, they make for darn good looking Ammunition.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I'd research the FTF issues. Please explain. That sounds like something other than a bullet issue. Maybe a primer strike issue. .355 is standard for 9mm bullets.

 

[AJC1]

Update- Loaded up a few rounds.
Was able to deprime and full length size in 38 dies, then only used the Dillon 9mm expander die/powder funnel which made the difference.... neck tension was much, much better. I applied a crimp adequate enough so the rounds chambered.

In pushing the rounds by hand, bullet nose on a block of wood to see if I could get the bullet to push into the case, and if I pushed fairly hard, I could get it to move.....but again, this is a highly non-scientific way to test real world neck tension.
I fired 5 of the 6 rounds, and kept the 6th one to see if it creeped forward under the light recoil that these were, and it did not.
My OAL on these were 1.420" and I used 5.0gr. 5.3gr and 5.5gr of BE-86
3 rounds of each.

Upon firing, I noticed no real difference in accuracy from my 3" new Colt King Cobra from about 7 yards.... again, I wasn't really expecting to. I did notice being able to see the bullets fly through the air at the 5.0gr loading, but not so much with 5.5gr.

I didn't set up the chrono.
I was able to keep all shots on a playing card at this distance, with most shots trending toward some sort of 1.5" grouping at this range, which has been the common standard for me with this gun at about 7 yards. No key holing.
I think I'm going to continue loading these, they're pretty good so far. And with the Nickel Plated casings I have a ton of, and these cool Black coated JHP Gold Dots, they make for darn good looking Ammunition.

No movement is indication of sufficient neck tension. If you continue to work up that may change. Best of luck.

 

[jmorris]

I did notice being able to see the bullets fly through the air at the 5.0gr loading,…

And with the Nickel Plated casings I have a ton of, and these cool Black coated JHP Gold Dots, they make for darn good looking Ammunition.

I generally don’t load ammunition for looks but if you have to watch them go down range, sounds like a good idea.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Case neck variance can give different reloaders different results with .355 bullets.

The other night I loaded the last eighteen .38 wadcutter .358" bullets I had left from a full box.
I used a mixed bunch of .38 Special brass, necksized then flared slightly to start the bullets.
WCC 72, Norma, CBC, MFS, Blazer, Star *-*, R-P.
I had a lot of variance in pressure needed to start the bullets and seat them.
I think the variance was more among the cases than the bullets.

 

[mdi]

Well, I didn't think they would work, but you proved me wrong! I'll file that knowledge away for future experimenting. (maybe they worked 'cause you have an excellent gun? )

 

[Thomasss]

Cigarette making paper ought to work just fine.

 

[Palladan44]

Update- had about 50 PCS of Win 38 +P nickle plated brass. (I'm a nerd, and I sort headstamps)
I was able to get adequate neck tension, and I was just starting to get happy. Was telling myself "Hey Bud, you got it made now".......

Then I moved over to RP 38+P Nickel Plated brass, ran them through the same die sequence (38 full length resize deprime, then 9mm resize about half way down, flare with 9mm funnel/expander, then 38 crimp die, to very slight roll crimp)
Only about 10 lbs of thumb pressure, and the bullet set back. Back to square one.
What if i move over to 9mm crimp die, rather than the 38? This would go against all I learned in the past about how neck tension is created in straight walled pistol cases...

 

[AJC1]

Update- had about 50 PCS of Win 38 +P nickle plated brass. (I'm a nerd, and I sort headstamps)
I was able to get adequate neck tension, and I was just starting to get happy. Was telling myself "Hey Bud, you got it made now".......

Then I moved over to RP 38+P Nickel Plated brass, ran them through the same die sequence (38 full length resize deprime, then 9mm resize about half way down, flare with 9mm funnel/expander, then 38 crimp die, to very slight roll crimp)
Only about 10 lbs of thumb pressure, and the bullet set back. Back to square one.
What if i move over to 9mm crimp die, rather than the 38? This would go against all I learned in the past about how neck tension is created in straight walled pistol cases...
View attachment 1134699

A taper crimp will not give more hold than a roll crimp.

 

[Palladan44]

A taper crimp will not give more hold than a roll crimp.

I know, but was thinking maybe if the 9mm die swages/crimps to a slightly smaller size..... I do agree with you, but I'm kind of taking the rule book and tossing it aside on this experiment.......I'm calling this quits anyways.

 

[AJC1]

I know, but was thinking maybe if the 9mm die swages/crimps to a slightly smaller size..... I do agree with you, but I'm kind of taking the rule book and tossing it aside on this experiment.......I'm calling this quits anyways.

Well if it's an experiment to learn, full speed ahead.

 

[reddog81]

See post # 13.

SAAMI might allow them to be the same, but how many .38 Specials have a .355 bore? .355 + .004 means every 9mm someone owns could be .355 and every .38 Special could be .359. The same bullets will have different results which is very likely. Using bullets that are close in size will be fine for punching hole but not ideal if going for maximum accuracy.

 

[fxvr5]

SAAMI might allow them to be the same, but how many .38 Specials have a .355 bore?

I have several 38/357 guns with .355 bores. Certainly well below .357. I've slugged over a dozen barrels of each caliber and there is not even a trend of 9mm being .355 and 38/357 being .357.

.355 + .004 means every 9mm someone owns could be .355 and every .38 Special could be .359.

And every 9mm could be .359 and every 38/357 could be .355. So what's your point?

The same bullets will have different results which is very likely.

You're making stuff up based on assumptions. Your assumption that 9mm and 38/357 have different groove diameters is not correct. The two barrels do have different twist rates, but the twist rate is optional according to SAAMI.

The same bullets will have different results which is very likely. Using bullets that are close in size will be fine for punching hole but not ideal if going for maximum accuracy.

If you can't tell the difference by slugging them, how will a bullet know the difference?

I have a Ruger Blackhawk convertible (9mm/38/357) with a groove diameter over .3575. It shoots .355 JHP bullets at under 1.5" at 25 yards, 24 shots. Ransom Rest. There are other .355 bullets that shoot very well in that gun, and they are more accurate than any .357/8 bullets I've tried in that gun so far.

If you want to believe they are different, fine. My data does not agree with that, but you're welcome to get your own data. Just keep in mind that your assumptions are just that. Assumptions.

 

[reddog81]

If you want to believe they are different, fine. My data does not agree with that, but you're welcome to get your own data. Just keep in mind that your assumptions are just that. Assumptions.

Try using .355 lead in that Ruger and see how that goes. The whole point of this thread is that using .355 bullets in .38 Special causes problems when it comes to reloading. Using jacketed bullets slighter smaller in diameter usually isn’t an issue for accuracy but isn’t necessarily a good idea.

I have many .38’s/.357’s from half a dozen different manufacturers and I know none of them have throats smaller than .357 and I size my bullets based on that measurement.

 

[fxvr5]

The whole point of this thread is that using .355 bullets in .38 Special causes problems when it comes to reloading. Using jacketed bullets slighter smaller in diameter usually isn’t an issue for accuracy but isn’t necessarily a good idea.

The issue is neck tension. It has been addressed.

Using jacketed bullets slighter smaller in diameter usually isn’t an issue for accuracy but isn’t necessarily a good idea.

You brought up the accuracy issue. Therefore it's fair game. You speculated based on a false assumption.

There's no good idea / bad idea issue here. If .355" size jacketed bullets are an accuracy issue, then it applies to all 9mm and 38/357 guns. Not just revolvers.

I have many .38’s/.357’s from half a dozen different manufacturers and I know none of them have throats smaller than .357 and I size my bullets based on that measurement.

But you haven't slugged the barrels and you haven't tried .355" bullets. I have slugged the barrels and I have tried .355" bullets. They shoot fine.

 

[reddog81]

I have tried .355 bullets. They don’t work as well in my guns. The neck tension issue has been mentioned by many. Read post #60 and #62, the issue remains.

 

[N555]

I say sell those 147gr gold dots, they are pretty desirable and buy some real .357 or .358 diameter bullets.

 

[Akula69]

Original poster said the G2 projectiles work in one of his 9MM platforms (Glock I believe) but not in the other. The projectile was designed by Speer for LE use, and because most agencies have the Glock platforms it stands to reason they would perform well there. The ones he has are demilled (most likely by American Reloading), and are missing the gel cap. Not as valuable by themselves, but new G2 projectiles are not sold by Speer to the retail market, so there is that. I play with them a lot for testing proposes, but most of your alphabet agencies have gone to the Hornady round now.

I agree that sizing down the neck of the .38 case (with a (mm sizing die ran down 1/2 way) so adequate neck tension can be achieved is possible, but why? The case neck will fail sooner, and 9mm cases are much easier to acquire than .38 cases are, especially the NI ones.

 

[GooseGestapo]

For me, it’s very easy to load a .355” in a .38Spl.
I swap the expander sleeve out of my Lee Powder thru expander for the one from the .38Spl die.

I size my 9mm cast bullets to .357” as that’s the most accurate size. I once had a Taurus PT99 that wanted .358”...

 

[entropy]

Update- Loaded up a few rounds.
Was able to deprime and full length size in 38 dies, then only used the Dillon 9mm expander die/powder funnel which made the difference.... neck tension was much, much better. I applied a crimp adequate enough so the rounds chambered.

In pushing the rounds by hand, bullet nose on a block of wood to see if I could get the bullet to push into the case, and if I pushed fairly hard, I could get it to move.....but again, this is a highly non-scientific way to test real world neck tension.
I fired 5 of the 6 rounds, and kept the 6th one to see if it creeped forward under the light recoil that these were, and it did not.
My OAL on these were 1.420" and I used 5.0gr. 5.3gr and 5.5gr of BE-86
3 rounds of each.

Upon firing, I noticed no real difference in accuracy from my 3" new Colt King Cobra from about 7 yards.... again, I wasn't really expecting to. I did notice being able to see the bullets fly through the air at the 5.0gr loading, but not so much with 5.5gr.

I didn't set up the chrono.
I was able to keep all shots on a playing card at this distance, with most shots trending toward some sort of 1.5" grouping at this range, which has been the common standard for me with this gun at about 7 yards. No key holing.
I think I'm going to continue loading these, they're pretty good so far. And with the Nickel Plated casings I have a ton of, and these cool Black coated JHP Gold Dots, they make for darn good looking Ammunition.

If you're concerned about bullet set back here, just run them through a Lee FCD after this regimen, and none should set back on you.

 

[Palladan44]

If you're concerned about bullet set back here, just run them through a Lee FCD after this regimen, and none should set back on you.

A .38/357 FDC
Or a 9mm FCD?
I have mostly Dillon dies (i have a 550B), but I have been buying Lee stuff as needed, it's the preferred vendor for my local reloading shop, so I can get what I need Pronto from Lee.

 

[entropy]

It really shouldn't matter between the two, they are collet crimpers, but get the 9mm one if you believe it will crimp tighter for you.

 

[Palladan44]

This begins the question.....
These are .38 specials, and have very little recoil. Thus pull shouldn't (and wasn't when I tested) an issue.
They're not going in a levergun......because I don't own a pistol calibered levergun. So setback not an issue.
There isn't some slow powder like W-296 in them, so high neck tension/roll crimp isn't necessary. There's 5.5 grains of BE-86.
I'm beginning to wonder, are these loads fine as is.......
My next test is going to be chronograph testing, with special attention paid to extreme spread velocity. There is where the true answer to my question should be.....