Justified Force? Police tase suspect 4 times and then Shoot Him

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Judging by the witness accounts, it sounds like the taser had a pretty big effect on this guy. They said he vomitted after the 2nd time. It also said he was shot after leaning forward (after both hands were in view). Judging by that, I think the officer had an itchy trigger finger and screwed up; the excuse of being a threat to other officers doesn't seem to hold water. The comment above about the dead guy having a CCW permit probably had the officers on edge.

I am sure there is another side to this. Based on this story alone, it does looks like overkill on the officers part and a bad shoot.
 
Moral of the story, Dont get involved with drugs, dont get involved in gangs, ands be a productive member of society, and the police will have no reaon to include you as a person of interest.
 
Moral of the story, Dont get involved with drugs, dont get involved in gangs, ands be a productive member of society, and the police will have no reaon to include you as a person of interest.
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Moral of the story: if the cops kill someone who they think might have done something wrong, people will support the cops regardless of whether or not they know what actually happened that day.


Good guys: ?

Suspected bad guys: -1

Society: another step closer to execution on suspicion

By the way, I'm a productive member of society and never done drugs or associated with those who did. And I've had cops at my door twice serving warrants and once because I was a "person of interest." The latter was due to mistaken identity and the former was due to the cops having the wrong address. I hope that if I'd not responded as they had thought I should respond, or quick enough, you might want an investigation when they shot me.

Then again, I know people who believe every time a cop fires his weapon, it's 100% justified and no investigation needed.
 
OK. We have one side of the story. I'll wait to hear the other before passing judgment.

That said, it doesn't exactly look good. The officer who fired the handgun needs to have a reason why he thought the suspect was about to use a weapon on the officers. He might have one, but it is not revealed in the newsblurb. Did he see the knife come out? Were they informed the suspect was armed by a reliable source? Did it not go down as 'cleanly' as the witnesses are saying? All of these are possible, but are mere speculation.

This could still be a good shoot, but it sure doesn't look that way with the facts in evidence. We'll see.

As to the Taser...

Haven't you ever seen those Taser videos floating around the net where somebody gets tasered, then afterward the cops are barking commands and the person tasered wails "I caaaaaan't...."

Tasers are disabling by nature.
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People are shouting that, but it is not true. Every cop who carries a Taser has been tasered, and let me share, it sucks while it is happening, but as soon as it stops cycling you can move just fine.

Mike
 
And I just got done writing a post in defense of cops.

But not these. With the cautionary statement regarding having all the facts, ie, we're not sure we do, these boys in blue need to go up the river for murder. Possibly premeditated. If you read the account closely, the encounter was over within seconds, from the viewpoint of all known witnesses. 15 of those seconds were spent taking an involuntary ride on a tazer. His reaction was non-typical, he vomitted due to the tazer. For you LE types, that's called a "clue". There are several suits pending against PD's here in Ohio over use/misuse of tazers. There are also several wrongful death suits pending against some of those same PD's because people died due to the above mentioned non-typical reaction. I see a lawsuit, I see a win in court for the plaintiff, if things go the way the facts SO FAR seem to point, I see murder convictions for several officers. If my gut proves right, we also have a premeditated murder (over-kill comment and the rapid fire tazers followed instantly by shooting) and death sentances for at least one cop.

Damn. And I just got done sticking up for police in another thread.
 
Bingo! The also have a history of violence towards the boys in blue.

So please people, wake up! Its just another low life of the streets.

Good guys - 1
Bad guys - 0
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no record, iraq war veteran. bad guy? I guess thats what you would call 'living in the now', right?
 
Having any sort of weapon whether you're a criminal or not doesn't mean your intentions are bad. Tasers don't work on everyone, that's why there's a number of less-lethal options.
 
I cannot believe what some of you are saying.
"The guy is a member of a biker gang, is suspected of drug offenses, and had a knif and pepper spray on him. Please, this guy did not have good attentions at all."



How about we use the fact that you have a gun therefore you are a criminal and need to be arrested.


Face it they screwed up and killed no murdered an innocent man. They all need to be in prision.


While I've never been tasered I did get accross 5,000 volts once. Yea I could move afterward but very slow and had diffculity standing. This guys was hit 3 times. I doubt that anyone can get up and move like it never happened after being hit 3 times.
 
Ugh.

I was right down the street from this when it happened. Cops everywhere, Pagans everywhere... This was at the bar called "the Bar" right up rt. 13 from the 495 exit.

The Pagans were promising to show up in force (I heard 2000 as the number they were kicking around) at that bar but never did.

This is par for the course for DE cops, unfortunately. That's why I don't live there anymore.
 
das...

Bag the personal stuff so this thread doesn't get closed. Hmmm?

Incidentally, you might be very surprised at the number of white collar professionals you know who are involved with drugs. Very surprised, so save your judgement until you know whereof you speak. Does wonders for the credibility.

Biker
 
The graphic states that the police officers were not in uniform.

Anyone (LEO or otherwise) know why the police would not be in uniform for a raid of this sort?

Seems to me that if police are not in uniform, they need to give the suspect a little extra time to figure out whats going on. I know if 6 guys came up and started yelling at me to get my hands out of my jacket, it would probably take me a second to comply because I would be wondering who they are.

As for whether the taser had any effect on him or not, the deceased vomited between the 2nd and 3rd tasers. I think that pretty clearly shows that the tasers were affecting him.

I'm with Biker, something stinks here.

I hope his wife gets a nice fat settlement. Something needs to be done to control the police in Delaware. Anyone else remember the *TWO* no-knock raids that were done to catch a suspected bank robber done on faulty info? Neither one of the "suspects" ever had charges filed.
 
Buzz, your clueless buddy! But you know what they say about opinions.
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Yup. Except, I really haven't offered an opinion, just asked questions and pointed out where you are operating off your prejudice, and not the law or facts.

And the fact that you are essentially celebrating the death of a person before any facts are in says everything that needs to be said about your opinion.
 
One other thing I was thinking of: Traffic cops often have video cameras on the dash. What is to stop arresting officers in cases like this from doing the same? I know they often do, but it would certainly help back up or discount witness statements especially in a case like this.
 
Look fellas, I'm not saying the cops were in the right here. Because (according to this article) they werent. But this guy wasnt some angel, giving to the poor or something. They guy was a Gang Member, and suspected drug (whatever). Put it this way, if he had a clean record then, it wasnt going to last long. I'm sure the guy was a sleaze ball, and its hard for me to feel sorry for the guy.

Buzz,
"And the fact that you are essentially celebrating the death of a person before any facts are in says everything that needs to be said about your opinion."

You hit the nail on the head right there bud! FACTS FACTS FACTS! There needs facts before anybody can pass judgement on either side! So the fact that your accusing these cops of wrong doing, before there is any actual facts, says alot about your opinion.


Biker,

"Incidentally, you might be very surprised at the number of white collar professionals you know who are involved with drugs. Very surprised, so save your judgement until you know whereof you speak. Does wonders for the credibility."

Ok buddy, what is that supposed to tell me? Because they are white collar its ok? Personally, I dont care what color your collar is! Who is bringing anything up about blue/white collar. I'm not judging any body but druggies, and a druggie is a druggie, no matter what colr his collar is. Ya know, that does wonders for credibility:cuss:
 
das028
Bingo! The also have a history of violence towards the boys in blue.
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And, of course, you're going to share with us your evidence for that statement, right?

A list of times the Wilmington police have been threatened with deadly force force by Pagans, maybe?

Particularly the tricky ones with no record, no useful weapons, and their hands in the pockets. Right?

Shall I hold my breath?
 
Well das, you were intimating that because the guy was hanging around people who use drugs, he essentially deserved to get greased. Meanwhile, there's a decent chance that *you* know people who use drugs whether or not you know it. Do you deserve 15 seconds of riding the lightening followed by three rounds of *fotay* in your vomiting carcass?
Mellow down some guy - who put sand in your thong?

Biker
 
Look fellas, I'm not saying the cops were in the right here. Because (according to this article) they werent. But this guy wasnt some angel, giving to the poor or something.
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So you are saying that even if the cops killed someone they shouldn't have killed, it's fine because the decedent was affiliated with the wrong group, notwithstanding the fact that he had a clean record?

Buzz, "And the fact that you are essentially celebrating the death of a person before any facts are in says everything that needs to be said about your opinion."

You hit the nail on the head right there bud! FACTS FACTS FACTS! There needs facts before anybody can pass judgement on either side! So the fact that your accusing these cops of wrong doing, before there is any actual facts, says alot about your opinion.
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You are projecting your own issues onto me. I haven't accused the officers of any wrongdoing. I have asked questions about the events. You are the one pontificating about who was right and wrong, or did you forget the score card you put up earlier?
 
I stand corrected. I forgot Mr. King was tased. Still, Tasers are a great non-lethal option that should be available to all LEO's.

K
 
Only God Knows

According to the article, it appears that there was a misuse of deadly force. Hopefully the truth will come out. I can't say either way if the guy was a low life or not, but according to the article he was a CCW holder in VA and served two tours in Iraq. This makes him a good guy in my book. I can't pass judgement on the shoot because I was not there. I can only reiterate that I hope the truth comes out and is not covered up to save anyone's bacon. No pun intended. Blind faith in the system, I don't have. I have spoken to police officers and I know that some of them do have this blind faith, in so far as saying that there are no innocent people in jail. This is funny with all the wrongful convictions being overturned everyday. Everyone has their own slant on things.
 
Jeez, someone has to explain why 3 officers shot a guy 6 times and not come up with a better excuse than "he didn't show his hands".

Also, tazers don't replace guns as most people would like to think. When threatened with your life you wouldn't use a single shot weapon with a range of 15ft and takes a second to take effect when you have a real gun. A tazer is to replace an old fashioned "take down". Instead of risking injury when tackling and cuffing a suspect, you can tazer him when he refuses to comply then cuff him. If the guy went down after the first tazer, one of the other officers could've pined and apprehended him.
 
Glumer, are you serious? Do you know who the Pagans are? To answer your question, no I dont have any evidence to the vilonence towards police, but I'm sure I copuyld find some just by searching th internet. But on the other hand, I have had a first hand experience with these scumbags (Pagans) before, threating me and my family! I've also seen one beat the snott out of some young kid at a bar, for bumping into him. Great people!

Biker, Yes I do know people that have done drugs. And I'd been lying if I told you that I have never smoked some pot before. But I can assure you, that I dont know anybody who is a Pagan. I also dont know anybody that have been a "person of insterest" in a drug case. And sorry if I'm getting a little peeved, nothing I have said has been out of malice to any of you guys.:)

Buzz,
"So you are saying that even if the cops killed someone they shouldn't have killed, it's fine because the decedent was affiliated with the wrong group, notwithstanding the fact that he had a clean record?"

Not at all! All I am saying is where there is smoke ther is fire. Thats all! You guys are making this dude out to be some kind of saint or something. And I'm sorry if the cops came to your door, because you were a person of interest, but did you comply with them? I'm sure you did everything they asked you to do right? After all you didnt do anything wrong did you?
 
They guy was a Gang Member, and suspected drug (whatever). Put it this way, if he had a clean record then, it wasnt going to last long. I'm sure the guy was a sleaze ball, and its hard for me to feel sorry for the guy.
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Many folks here are NRA members and carry guns, you all are also members of THR, where people talk about using their guns to overthrow the government, shoot JBTs etc.:evil: So obviously if the ATF or the FBI rolls up to your house at 3 am based on a tip from a snitch, err criminal looking for time off his sentance, who happened to read one of your posts.... And they kicked in your door an tased you while in bed, and you didnt comply with their demands fast enough IT WOULD BE A-OK if they shot you dead on the spot:cool:

Guilt by association resulting in summary execution, does that sound like a good tactic if you are the Person of Interest.????????

As far as the knife and he peper spray he was supposedly carring, the police were saying that they found something, but they "weren't sure if it was his or not" a couple days ago. Now they are sure he had a switch blade,

cough cough throw away weapon cough.

I can guarantee the police will be exhonnerated of any wrong doing in their internal investigation.

They will lose the civil suit for sure though, and end up settling.
 
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