Kansas City gun shop sued over ammo sale

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Cut and pasted from another forum, but I have no link for it:

Gun Shop Sued for Bullets Used in Ward Parkway Center Shooting

Last Edited: Tuesday, 09 Dec 2008, 4:04 PM CST
Created: Tuesday, 09 Dec 2008, 4:04 PM CST

OVERLAND PARK, KAN. -- An Overland Park gun shop is being sued for it's possible role in the 2007 Ward Parkway shootings that left three people dead.

The shooting rampage ended at the Ward Parkway Shopping Center in April 2007. In the end, three people were killed and several others were injured including a cop.

A victim's mother says a gun shop played a role in the tragedy.

The mother of Luke Nilges, one of the victims, says gunman David Logsdon could have been stopped days before it all happened.

"The senselessness is what troubles her I think more than anything else and the fact that she truly believes if the right things had been done this could have been prevented," said attorney Randy James.

In a wrongful death lawsuit, the plaintiff claims the Bullet Hole Gun Shop negligently sold Logsdon the cartridges used to fire the gun with a stolen credit card.

Police reports show the credit card belonged to Patricia Reed.

"And, here you have a man who is not Patricia Reed using this credit car obviously not the card holder," said James.

Reed was Logsdon's neighbor and his first victim. Police said he beat her to death, lived in her home for a few days and used her credit card to make purchases leading up to the rampage.

Police found a receipt from the Bullet Hole in Reed's car.

The Bullet Hole declined to comment on the suit.

"But, we believe it contributed directly to the death of not only our client Luke Nilges but the other people involved because this happened four days before the Ward Parkway shooting," said James.

James says his client is seeking damages for funeral expenses and lost income, along with punitive damages.

The plaintiff's attorney says to the best of his knowledge, this is the first lawsuit related to the Ward Parkway shootings.

Heather Claybrook, FOX 4 News
 
Well, since they didn't ask for ID and the name on the card should have raised red flags since it was for a woman, I'd say they have a case. It's not so much it being gun-related as the fact that they didn't even bother to perform even basic credit card procedures, which is negligent in its own right. And selling weapons or ammunition? Doubly so.

Let's face it: this is how a lot of gang members get their ammo. Any responsible owner would have checked for ID.

Would I call it wrongful death? No. But I'd call it negligence.
 
Well the guy used a stolen CC with a female name. Guys at the shop should have caught that with an ID check. Fraud division of the CC company will take back the $$ spent there.

But culpability in a wrongful death suit? No, the shooter could have paid cash and gotten the same ammo with no issues.

Blame the murderer, not the tools.
 
I wonder if David the shooter had used Patricia's ATM card to get cash from her bank and then used that cash to buy ammo if there would be a case against the bank?
 
so, if the guy had purchased the cartriges four months before the shooting, then they wouldnt be liable? oh, i get it, the sold the bullets, so that makes them the bad guys. the whole thing stinks. yes, they screwed up by selling the bullets to a person with a stolen credit card. so how does that make them responsible for the shooting. EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS! geesh. i wish people could get this through their heads. actually, i think the press operator at the steel yard where the steel was made is responsible for this. if he hadnt done his job right, there wouldnt have been steel to make the gun in the first place.or, maybe it is Gods fault. if he hadnt given us the raw materials, or the brains to learn how to refine and make metal..........oh yeah, you cant get money out of God. another ambulance chasing lawyer is going to try to screw up America again.
 
I used one of my CC's yesterday in a local gun shop. Card isn't signed & I wasn't asked for ID...
 
And yet gun shops are still required to verify that the purchaser is at least 18. That's another matter. When you buy alcohol, you're carded regardless of age in most places nowadays. Technically, EVERYONE who buys ammo should at least be carded.
 
I gotta be honest to myself.

I swipe my card a dozen times a day to make purchases. Gas, groceries, gun stuff. I GLADLY show ID when asked, but merchants only ask maybe 1 out of a dozen purchases. If they don't ask, I don't show.

So am I going to be a hypocrite when hindsight tells me that this particular purchase in Overland Park should have been scrutinized, when hundreds of my own purchases are not scrutinized every month?

I gotta be honest to myself because I'm not a hypocrite. I can't blame one merchant for one purchase, when I'm the happy customer on hundreds of my own purchases where I don't demand to show ID.

Please don't lecture me on what we should do. Examine your own credit card purchases. Have you ever made a purchase without showing ID? Of course you have.
 
Wonder if they are suing the Police Department because the guy was engaged over the stolen car. In the exchange of fire both the perp and the officer were wounded. Is the Department/Officer responsible because they failed to stop the guy right there?

Oh well... it's the USA. Lawsuits 'R Us.
 
Sorry, but this "victims mother" is an idiot. No other way to describe her. :rolleyes: A credit card did not kill anybody. :rolleyes::banghead::cuss:
 
When you file a suit, you look for some one who actually has money. I doubt the perp had any, but the gun store probably does. So you sue them.

That's how it's done. I'm not saying it's moral, only common.

If the gun store didn't break any rules (I can't speak for Kansas City rules), their attorney/insurance still might settle out of court, just to avoid a 'big' loss.

Happens every day. I've know of very few cases where some one sues for just an apology.
 
I used to be in that gun shop twice a week using their range.

Someone stop me if this makes no sense. Here I go:

The point of the law is to hold people accountable for their actions. Therefore, charge the guy that murdered people with murder. If failing to check someone's ID is a crime, the guy that failed to check ID should be charged with that penalty that is assigned for failing to check someone's ID.

Whadda ya think?
 
My Lord!!!! What's next, a car dealership being sued if someone commits vehicular manslaughter while driving a car that they sold. Or maybe Linens N' Things when someone uses a knive from one of their cutlery sets. :banghead:

I'd keep going, but I'm almost afraid of giving someone ideas :fire:
 
If the purchase was less than a fixed amount, then often times a shop - including Walmart, will not even require a signature - much less ID.

A box of bullets would be less that the limit - did the culprit buy anything else?
 
But there's a difference: the purchase involved a product where the store was legally required to verify the purchaser's age, which would also require carding. Two conditions existed that would have required they card the individual, one of them legally binding.
 
OK - but

OK - didn't realize that there was the requirement.

But I still do not think that the shop owner is partially responsible for the shooting. The Danger here is that the anti-gun lobbyists will be all over this, and that the case will get undue attention in the media - as usual.
 
You know who should be named in the lawsuit as well? The perpitrator's parents. Worry less about where he got the bullets and more about where he got the morals.
 
Scum sucking lawyers. They have to go out and drum up business. I'll bet they contacted the mother about this suit.
 
You know who should be named in the lawsuit as well? The perpitrator's parents. Worry less about where he got the bullets and more about where he got the morals.
Click to expand...

My initial reaction was "damn right"

but even with the best parents, sometimes people just turn out to be degenerates.

I know one person who is the kindest and most responsible person ever...... has great parents, and a brother, raised by the same parents..... who is a complete *expletive*, has no tact, and no sense of responsibility. It's not right to automatically assume the parents are at fault.
 
This is a kin to suing McDonalds for you being overweight . Like it's their fault your a fat ass!
 
the shop owner should be liable for the fraudulent charge.

verdict :

$20 to the plaintiff
 
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