Keeping The Bar Raised.

[sm]

I am posting this publicly and acting on my own. I am not a Staff Member here on THR or TFL.

THR became home to many us from TFL upon Rich closing TFL. Rich in his closing statements to us TFL reminded us that his goal and that of TFL staff was to raise the bar for all Internet Forums, including Firearm Forums - this goal was met, and TFL made that bar, and then raised it high.

Upon closing TFL Rich Challenged Us to not just "maintain" - instead to raise the bar even higher in our pursuits in life.

Oleg was gracious to open THR, and give us TFL members a home. Many others also started forums, still others started Blog, Websites , became instructors, trainers...etc., in each and every endeavor, Rich's challenge to raise the bar was in mind, that promise kept.

TFL re-opened.

I was raised not to meddle. I was raised to pass forward Ethics, Integrity, Morals and Principles. I do not get involved - except when it is the right thing to do.

I am acting on my own as a member of THR / TFL . In some ways it is best I am not Staff on either forum, as I can share my feeling, my thoughts and am only responsible for ME.

I was raised to never start a fight, but if I got into one to end it. I was raised to assist the ones being beat up upon by bigger bullies, or to even the odds when evil preyed upon the weak.

I did not start this "fight" - but by golly I am in the fight now!

I personally do not appreciate some members trying to tear down the bar here at THR or TFL. I do not appreciate anyone "hanging on" to attempt to lower it.

You do not kick a dog, push an elderly person down, or belittle females, not in MY world. And I do not appreciate folks breathing MY Air when they do these things!

Keyboard Kommandos - either straighten up or leave - now!

Anti's that wish to promote Tyranny, leave and post lies on your own forum.

Fences Sitters, I care a whole bunch. There is an 'ignore feature' and I strongly suggest you use it. I want you fence sitters here to learn from documented cites what Responsible Firearm Ownership means.

Kids, I care about you too, you are OUR future. I apologize for those members that have been a bad example here on THR and TFL.

If TFL or THR were MY forums, I would shut them down for 24 hours. I would Lock threads and cull the membership. Upon coming back on-line some very clear points in regard to Rules of Conduct and Mission Statements posted.

I have shared this very idea with folks at THR and TFL. I hope they do so!

THR and TFL as well as our other Sister Sites have Responsibities and WE are going to take care of these.

I care not one whit what folks think of me, never have, too darn old to start now. I have my objectives in life and will accomplish them or die trying.

I broke away from many things in my life hindering my goals and beliefs. I have fired family and friends hindering as well. Though I do the team player bit, I often work alone to get things done.

I'm stepping up to the plate in a new dimension. I'm going to lead off.

For 24 hours I will not log in to TFL or THR.

Do not ask me about a Shotgun question, in a forum post. Do not PM me or email with a question either. Quite frankly I do not want another nasty PM about me bringing up Rules of Conduct or Misson Statements - I ain't answering.

I'm stepping up and taking point. I do not need anyone watching my six.

Then again if anyone wishes to join me - in like spirit - fine, just post your username below.

I do not want posted replies or any other horse manure. Either shut up or post a username.

Rich, I know you read THR and therefore no need to share this with TFL.
Markos - same for you.

THR /TFL staff have my email.

Counterstrike folks, Keyboard Kommandos, and those with Tyranny in their blood, leave, leave now!

I'm dead serious about Integrity, Ethics, Morals, and Principals.

You have breathed MY Air too long to disrupt THR and TFL Standards.


Regards,

Steve

 

[browningguy]

"...and those with Tyranny in their blood, leave, leave now..."

I'm glad to see so many open minded people on the board. If you don't want any posted replies, then I suggest you don't post.

 

[hoji]

You lost me.

 

[Car Knocker]

Steve, I'm inclined to agree, although with somewhat less passion. There has been a marked increase in incivility, a failure to comply with the concept upon which THR was founded. Although my memory may be faulty, there seems to be a greater need for the Mods to delete posts or portions of posts that go beyond the pale. From my point of view, THR has become a less pleasant place to hang out lately due to a small group of people who chose to ignore the rules they agreed to comply with.

 

[nswtex]

"If TFL or THR were MY forums, I would shut them down for 24 hours. I would Lock threads and cull the membership. Upon coming back on-line some very clear points in regard to Rules of Conduct and Mission Statements posted."

Wow, now that really doesn't speak to me of protecting freedoms, but controlling them. You said yourself that there is an ignore feature. Why dont you just ignore everybody you dont like instead of trying to suppress all of them.

 

[redranger1]

"I'm dead serious about Integrity, Ethics, Morals, and Principals."


I find it interesting that a site would expect/demand to have all of these yet refuses to allow discussions involving any kind of religious ideas and values that involve our 2nd amendment rights. Afterall, it is the religious that tend to uphold these standards of life more then any other group of people. Granted there is a line to be drawn on how far a discussion should go, but there is plenty related also.....kinda like seperation of church and state.

 

[rbernie]

that really doesn't speak to me of protecting freedoms, but controlling them.

Posting here is not a freedom - it's a privledge that Oleg and his staff extend to us all *if* we agree to play nicely in his sandbox.

Why dont you just ignore everybody you dont like instead of trying to suppress all of them.

Because, in the end, that misses the point. Simply ignoring rude behavior at best does nothing to cause that behavior to cease, and at worst causes it to escalate because it appears to be tolerated.

I just don't understand what abstaining from participating in the forums for a day will accomplish.

 

[dfariswheel]

I've noticed the drift.

I hate to see the best forums on the internet turn into the usual "you suck" flame-fests the others are.

I come here to have discussions about firearms.
Most others are sites where the gun boards get little action but the General Discussion goes hundreds of posts, many of which degenerate into name calling and locks.

"It's teh gey" and "do u no whut dat is" also gets real old, real fast.

One good reason NOT to allow posts about straight religion or politics is how fast they do degenerate.

This is a GUN forum. If you want to argue about other subjects, there's PLENTY of forums around for that.

 

[atlctyslkr]

If TFL or THR were MY forums, I would shut them down for 24 hours. I would Lock threads and cull the membership. Upon coming back on-line some very clear points in regard to Rules of Conduct and Mission Statements posted.

Actually this sort of happend accidentally when TFL was down a few weeks ago. The traffic over there is way down and the posts are alot tamer.

I'm not saying this forum needs to "go down" but if it did most of the trouble makers would leave and go somewhere else. I hear GlockTalk got a bunch of new members.

 

[JohnBT]

"I personally do not appreciate some members trying to tear down the bar here at THR or TFL. I do not appreciate anyone "hanging on" to attempt to lower it."

I agree.

JohnBT

 

[grampster]

Well, I've been a member here since TFL shut down. The thing about TFL and THR that I have appreciated was the level of discussion. Even if it got a bit off topic from time to time, discourse was polite, informed and restrained as much as is possible by folks who are passionate about the state of our freedom can be. Usually, if someone strayed over the line a nudge by a fellow member or a moderator was enough to get the discussion back on track. In fact, folks even apologized for a comment from time to time. I know I have. I have learned much, laughed a lot, joined hands through the ether with folks when hard times struck, been uplifted when those times hit me, shared some stories and experiences, and even changed my mind about some things that I would have never guessed I would have. I have even made some good friends that I haven't met. (yet) In other words this place has been a good experience for me.

I've lurked and joined a number of boards and the level of discussion here and TFL was quite elevated and informative in comparison. It caused one to think, to remember, to commiserate, to share old campfire stories about hunting, comradeship, guns, dogs, laws etc etc. By and large the discussion remains so. But not always, and more lately. I don't care much for that and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

What gets me is when folks become argumentative; unwilling to back down or entertain the notion that one can change one's mind and then get personal about it.

There are some subjects, religion comes to mind, when even though one's faith may drive decisions about firearms, some folks fail to understand that religion is about faith and personal decision. One does not begin to proselatyze or criticize someone's faith. It is not productive.

To pick nits and constantly demand proof or dispute comments with hollow argument is not worthy of THR. If you're young, your opinions are entertained. Just don't make a fool out of yourself. When you do, and it's pointed out, back off! That way you learn. Don't let your fingers be bigger than your mouth or your brain.

Being a "Keyboard Commando" is another area of concern. The plankholders in this forum and alumni of TFL are all about the responsible ownership, handling, and moral and ethical uses of firearms. We are not all about "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out." That is childish and not worthy of the quality of members of this board and TFL. Telling whoppers about firearms and situations that are patently obviously BS (Most of us have been around the block a bit) is not amusing. (Well, sometimes watching someone make a fool out of himself is funny; but still is not productive in the big picture.) We set the example and the bar about how people who value freedom need to conduct themselves. We should be the example of why folks would want to get involved in the firearm culture, not be revolted by it. There are many people who visit this board. What we say and how we conduct ourselves is a benchmark for what we believe. We don't believe we should be the stereotypical knuckle dragging neanderthal that the anti's try and promote.

So, if you have something worthy to contribute, a question to ask, an answer to provide, a speculation that leads to worthy conversation, an amusing anecdote, a happy day at the range, a bad day at the range, a furtive move by a congress critter, a good hunting story, a great firearm purchase, you're upset about something on topic, or anything else one of the topics may promote, then have at it.

If you are a knucklehead, instigator, troll, or otherwise inclined to lower the bar rather than raise it, please go somewhere else to annoy folks.

This forum belongs to Oleg. It's his board. He pays the bills and sets the rules. He gives us leave to have at it within the rules of engagement that he has set down in this board's mission statement and the behavior we all agreed to that enabled us to participate. We are all obliged to honor his parameters and not argue about them. We all gave our word. Honor it.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

^

There you have it. If you can't understand it in southern, maybe you can understand it in Northeastern.

Thank you Grampster.

 

[Rich Lucibella]

sm-
Thanks....I think.

I don't get here as often as I'd like; but somebody emailed me about this thread.

I can't speak for Brother Oleg; he does that far better than me. But for TFL, I'm somewhat in agreement; I've infected it with my own sense of Political Correctness; not wishing to let anyone feel they're not welcome.

Well guess what? While we've been doing "inclusive" (again, my fault), every mouth breather with an Internet Cafe pass has been discovering Forums. Time for a new enforcement paradigm....and this I promise: It will not be by "consensus" but by Original Vision. The Members who understand the Original Vision will rise and support (for the most part); those who don't.....well, they just won't.

For those who believe this is a game about numbers of Members, Threads and Posts...think again. 'Cuz it never was.
Regards all-
Rich

 

[HCfan]

I agree. But, from lurking and being on various boards it's a cycle that happens every year around this time. With school (and college) being out, those with too much time on their hands decide to get a summer job as a troll on the internet.

Once they go back to school, there will be alot less of this type of activity.

The only thing that can be done is for the mods and the admins to pay more attention to who is coming in and for the members to PM/Email a heads up to the Staff when they see this activity happening.

 

[warriorsociologist]

For 24 hours I will not log in to TFL or THR....if anyone wishes to join me - in like spirit - fine, just post your username below.

warriorsociologist

(starting 1500 EST)

 

[Clipper]

I'll try my best...

...To make it through the next 24 hours...

 

[Al Norris]

HCfan, this has been an ongoing issue since this time last year. I know it has been for TFL and I surmise THR has seen much the same.

Some of us thought it would go away last year, when school started back up. It didn't. It been a steady increase in what I would politely term, "Juvenile Behavior," since then. Haven't seen any let up, here or there (one doesn't need to be a mod to have noticed).

The only thing that can be done is for the mods and the admins to pay more attention to who is coming in and for the members to PM/Email a heads up to the Staff when they see this activity happening.

First of all, moderators time, like anyone elses is limited. And it's all donated to boot. Just like our police, they simply can't be everywhere at all times.

Secondly, you did hit upon one thing... Members who self police the forums. Used to be done a lot. Not so much as of late. A perfect example of this, is this thread! You will notice that this thread is in no way related to firearms? But it is still open... And I'm positive the mods have noticed and are reading it.

aka Antipitas.

 

[buzz_knox]

While we've been doing "inclusive" (again, my fault), every mouth breather with an Internet Cafe pass has been discovering Forums.

Unfortunately, it's not always the short timers or mouthbreathers that are the issue.

 

[Stiletto Null]

*scratches head*

mmkay...

 

[mindwip]

Counterstrike folks

I play counter strike, why do i have to leave, because i play a video game


PS when you come back from your 24 hour leave i would really like to hear why Counterstrike folks need to leave, you can even email me if you wish.

Or maybe someone else can answer my question?

Also i dont think its The High Road to generalize people you have never met, or who have yet to sign up.

 

[Tom Servo]

(...)t's a cycle that happens every year around this time. With school (and college) being out, those with too much time on their hands decide to get a summer job as a troll on the internet.

Back in the days of Usenet, it was called "Black September." Back then, most folks didn't have internet access at home, but in September, they'd go to school, where they'd flood onto Usenet cross-posting, flaming and trolling away.

The usual response was a nudge in the direction of etiquette, and if that didn't work, they'd be banned. This board takes a similar approach in its moderation, and for the most part, it works very well.

Plain fact is, this *is* one of the last bastions of civility on the internet. THR still keeps the bar high, and yes, you're going to encounter the lowest-common-denominator from time to time. That's life.

Know what? I predict Gunkid will re-emerge under a different name at some point. There are always people like him. Fortunately, they don't last long here, and the signal/noise ratio is so high that they're easily ignored. You can't ENFORCE civility, no matter how hard you try, but the moderators do an exemplary job of filtering out the bad element. Stuff will slip through from time to time, but that's just life.

 

[Baba Louie]

Counterstrike folks, Keyboard Kommandos, and those with Tyranny in their blood, leave, leave now!

I'm dead serious about Integrity, Ethics, Morals, and Principals.

Or maybe someone else can answer my question?

Because to some, maybe many, hopefully most of the members here, this isn't about a game, but rather about an ethical, moral way of life that revolves around personal responsibility of an item that has great power at it's disposal... thus, not a thing to take lightly, rather a respect of life, knowledge and personal power.
Rich, Oleg and several here have given, and continue to give their time to sharing, preaching and teaching something that is far beyond counterstrike, et al.

It's really pretty simple. Sad that some cannot see the forest for the tree in front of their face.

At any one time we might have 100 members and 700 guests reading the verbage contained herein. Very few other gunboards have that level of viewers to my knowledge. Certainly not many who are as new as THR.
sm is correct in stating that we should keep the bar high.

Maybe it is time to curtail some of the illiterati type posts... then again, maybe it's best to treat them in a fashion whereby they learn and grow. Should they choose to continue playing/posting in the ignoranti mode, they can be and should be ignored.

But a wise man (or woman) will let them know how children should behave. No matter their age. Self Censureship. I practice it daily, for my words are oft-times less than worthy of a read.

Like now.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Counterstrike folks

I play counter strike, why do i have to leave, because i play a video game


PS when you come back from your 24 hour leave i would really like to hear why Counterstrike folks need to leave, you can even email me if you wish.

Or maybe someone else can answer my question?

Also i dont think its The High Road to generalize people you have never met, or who have yet to sign up.

I agree, I'd love what makes the fact that someone likes to play CS, also makes them not the kind of person who should post here. It sounds to me as if this guy is falling into the kind of generalizations himself that he says distress him so much.

 

[mbs357]

+1, sir.
Another thing that I've been seeing on THR recently that I do not like...
You know how we always put the anti-gunners down for 'dancing in the blood' of innocents right after a shooting?
It seems every week or so I see a post up here with a member or two doing the same thing.
It really needs to stop...

 

[rbernie]

It sounds to me as if this guy is falling into the kind of generalizations himself that he says distress him so much.

Generalizations aren't the issue - bad behavior is.

Regardless of whether the bluster and BS and bad behavior is spawned from mythical experiences gained in CS or has it roots elsewhere, the message is the same - it doesn't belong on THR. Singling out CS as a root cause misses the point.