Panzerschwein
member
So I've been thinking about buying a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 carbine in 9mm for some time now, and it looks like they've come out with a Gen 2 version of this weapon that has several notable imporvements over the older ones:
https://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/sub-2000/rifle/
I am wondering what you guys think of using this as a defensive carbine? Hear me out first before you respond.
I think this weapon has some notable advantages over an AR-15 platform rifle. No, it doesn't hit as hard as an AR-15 but the 16" barrel of this carbine adds about 25-30% more muzzle energy to the 9mm ammunition used due to increased velocity over use in a handgun. With some 9mm +P loads the carbine's barrel produces energy near that of a .357 magnum revolver. That's a nice bonus, but still isn't as powerful as an AR or AK, and certainly not as powerful as an HK G3 or other .308 battle rifle.
But I ask you... can you stick one of those rifles into a laptop bag, briefcase or backpack? Perhaps you can- if you disassemble them first. Even then, is your AR upper 16" long? Probably not. When folded, the Sub 2000 carbine is 16.25" long. Not only that, but it can be made to fire in only a few seconds by unfolding it, flipping up the rear sight, and working the charging handle. With an AR or similar gun, you're going to have to line up pins and holes, potentially during a stressful scenario, and you're still not going to have as short or compact of a package as you would with a folded Sub 2000.
Not only that, but the Sub 2000 weighs just over 4 lbs. That is very, very light. I don't know of any AR or other .223/5.56mm rifle that weighs that much. Not only can a Sub 2000 fit into a smaller space as any other long gun you can think of, it also is lighter than almost anything else out there that is reasonably powerful enough for the purpose of self defense... and as we discussed above, the Sub 2000 is no slouch when it comes to velocity or energy and can be had in .40 S&W if you are so inclined or have a CCW pistol chambered in the same cartridge.
And that brings us to magazine compatibility. The Sub 2000 is available in a number of versions that can accept many large manufacturer's magazines. The most well known version are ones designed to use Glock magazines, but version able to accept Beretta, Smith and Wesson and other magazines exist. If you carry any of these guns for self defense, a Sub 2000 will not only be able to share the same ammunition as your carry pistol, but the same ammunition as well.
So aside from the improved ballistics the Sub 2000 carbine offers, why would you want to carry it vs just using your pistol? I'll tell you why: hit probability. With the handgun, hit probability depends on the user's ability to line up a sight radius a few inches long, with only one point of contact (the hands) on the weapon in order to control recoil and steadiness. Most of us know that if you lock your Glock down into a shooting vice, it will make a fist sized group at 100 yards all day with half way decent ammunition. However, very few of us out there can keep a handgun steady enough to do this in the real world.
Enter the carbine. With the Sub 2000, you now have three points of contact on the weapon (hands in two different positions, shoulder, and cheek) which dramatically increases control over the firearm. With an increase in sight radius, which is easily triple that of a pistol, the shooter is able to much more precisely place the sights on target. What this all equals is that the average shooter is able to place more firepower on target, faster and with better precision, as they would be able to with the handgun alone. The effective range of this carbine is usually considered to be between 100-150 meters, vs the 50 meter effective range of the typical service handgun. And, if either the handgun or carbine is rendered inoperable during a firefight, both platforms can share the same ammunition and magazines.
So that is why I think the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is a great defensive carbine. It won't hit as hard as an AR-15 or AK-47, won't have the range of your Remington 700, but it is a sure improvement over the handgun alone... and much like the handgun, it can come with you almost anywhere where something as small as a laptop case or even lunchbox would be appropriate. It's light weight makes it easy to carry as well. I should also mention that these guns operate on a simple blowback action, and are known to be very reliable and will feed quality hollow point ammunition very nicely.
So what do you think of the Sub 2000?
Thanks for reading guys. Cooldill out.
https://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/sub-2000/rifle/
I am wondering what you guys think of using this as a defensive carbine? Hear me out first before you respond.
I think this weapon has some notable advantages over an AR-15 platform rifle. No, it doesn't hit as hard as an AR-15 but the 16" barrel of this carbine adds about 25-30% more muzzle energy to the 9mm ammunition used due to increased velocity over use in a handgun. With some 9mm +P loads the carbine's barrel produces energy near that of a .357 magnum revolver. That's a nice bonus, but still isn't as powerful as an AR or AK, and certainly not as powerful as an HK G3 or other .308 battle rifle.
But I ask you... can you stick one of those rifles into a laptop bag, briefcase or backpack? Perhaps you can- if you disassemble them first. Even then, is your AR upper 16" long? Probably not. When folded, the Sub 2000 carbine is 16.25" long. Not only that, but it can be made to fire in only a few seconds by unfolding it, flipping up the rear sight, and working the charging handle. With an AR or similar gun, you're going to have to line up pins and holes, potentially during a stressful scenario, and you're still not going to have as short or compact of a package as you would with a folded Sub 2000.
Not only that, but the Sub 2000 weighs just over 4 lbs. That is very, very light. I don't know of any AR or other .223/5.56mm rifle that weighs that much. Not only can a Sub 2000 fit into a smaller space as any other long gun you can think of, it also is lighter than almost anything else out there that is reasonably powerful enough for the purpose of self defense... and as we discussed above, the Sub 2000 is no slouch when it comes to velocity or energy and can be had in .40 S&W if you are so inclined or have a CCW pistol chambered in the same cartridge.
And that brings us to magazine compatibility. The Sub 2000 is available in a number of versions that can accept many large manufacturer's magazines. The most well known version are ones designed to use Glock magazines, but version able to accept Beretta, Smith and Wesson and other magazines exist. If you carry any of these guns for self defense, a Sub 2000 will not only be able to share the same ammunition as your carry pistol, but the same ammunition as well.
So aside from the improved ballistics the Sub 2000 carbine offers, why would you want to carry it vs just using your pistol? I'll tell you why: hit probability. With the handgun, hit probability depends on the user's ability to line up a sight radius a few inches long, with only one point of contact (the hands) on the weapon in order to control recoil and steadiness. Most of us know that if you lock your Glock down into a shooting vice, it will make a fist sized group at 100 yards all day with half way decent ammunition. However, very few of us out there can keep a handgun steady enough to do this in the real world.
Enter the carbine. With the Sub 2000, you now have three points of contact on the weapon (hands in two different positions, shoulder, and cheek) which dramatically increases control over the firearm. With an increase in sight radius, which is easily triple that of a pistol, the shooter is able to much more precisely place the sights on target. What this all equals is that the average shooter is able to place more firepower on target, faster and with better precision, as they would be able to with the handgun alone. The effective range of this carbine is usually considered to be between 100-150 meters, vs the 50 meter effective range of the typical service handgun. And, if either the handgun or carbine is rendered inoperable during a firefight, both platforms can share the same ammunition and magazines.
So that is why I think the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is a great defensive carbine. It won't hit as hard as an AR-15 or AK-47, won't have the range of your Remington 700, but it is a sure improvement over the handgun alone... and much like the handgun, it can come with you almost anywhere where something as small as a laptop case or even lunchbox would be appropriate. It's light weight makes it easy to carry as well. I should also mention that these guns operate on a simple blowback action, and are known to be very reliable and will feed quality hollow point ammunition very nicely.
So what do you think of the Sub 2000?
Thanks for reading guys. Cooldill out.
