justin22885
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16 inches is absolutely useless for a pistol caliber, cut that thing down to 10 inches and then youll have a much better carbine
Kel-Tec Sub 2000 Gen 2 for Defense?
- Thread starter Panzerschwein
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FrankCastleThePunisher
Member
For a hiking or truck gun that is easily concealable in a backpack, you might want to look at the CZ Scorpian Evo 9 mm. or Sig MPX semi-auto SMG. The Evo is around 16" long with a 7" barrel and hard polymer, and the MPX is 17" long with a 8" barrel and aluminum metal. Both would also fit concealed in a 17" computer case. Both can use 30 round magazines. The MPX is available in 9 mm, 40 mm, and 357 sig. The Evo runs about $800.00 and the MPX runs around $1379.00.
ColoradoShooter77
Member
Folks must have an aversion to Hi-Point, I did too, until I bought one of these carbines, its outstanding for $300.
In my opinion, the 40 S&W is the way to go, it gains alot of speed in the 17" barrel. The 45 ACP gains next to nothing.
In my opinion, the 40 S&W is the way to go, it gains alot of speed in the 17" barrel. The 45 ACP gains next to nothing.
A few points:
-I don't carry the rifle, but the fold up configuration lets me stash it and a pack of high capacity mags in an old gym bag and throw it in my truck or truck tool box. If anyone sees the bag, it doesn't scream "gun" unless they try to pick it up. The light weight and folding capability are just utility options available.
-I can put rounds on target at 100 yards with my sub2000. I can't do that very well with pistols.
-The only Keltec I have had any problems with is my PF9, but I have heard I am not alone in that. I have a sub2000 and an SU16 and both work great.
-IMO, spending top dollar on semi-auto pistol carbines isn't really worth it. The Kel-tec is a good, reliable option and the gen 2 has some good improvements that fix some issues I had with the first version.
-I don't carry the rifle, but the fold up configuration lets me stash it and a pack of high capacity mags in an old gym bag and throw it in my truck or truck tool box. If anyone sees the bag, it doesn't scream "gun" unless they try to pick it up. The light weight and folding capability are just utility options available.
-I can put rounds on target at 100 yards with my sub2000. I can't do that very well with pistols.
-The only Keltec I have had any problems with is my PF9, but I have heard I am not alone in that. I have a sub2000 and an SU16 and both work great.
-IMO, spending top dollar on semi-auto pistol carbines isn't really worth it. The Kel-tec is a good, reliable option and the gen 2 has some good improvements that fix some issues I had with the first version.
chipcom
member
For some the Sub2000 and similar handgun caliber carbines are perfect for use in a get-home bag for a potential SHTF scenario...but personally I prefer a takedown .22 for that purpose. Why? Because if I am trying to get home I am going out of my way to avoid trouble...and any trouble I run into will probably require me to use my handgun, rather than dig around in my pack/scabbard to pull a carbine. I may want to shoot a rabbit or squirrel though...and if there is a threat that gives me time to get into my pack/scabbard, a .22 right between the running lights is as good as multiple pistol rounds center mass...especially if body armor is involved.
Why wouldn't I just carry the carbine and be ready to use it? Because it would make me a threat to someone who can see me from beyond the range of the carbine who may be armed with a more suitable round to take out long distance threats. That hesitation to determine if I am armed and a threat or not might be the difference between me getting home and being another nameless corpse. I'm to old to run around playing operator and going toe-to-toe with trained troops...or even untrained mobs. From a distance I want to look like what I am...just a poor schmuck trying to get home.
Why wouldn't I just carry the carbine and be ready to use it? Because it would make me a threat to someone who can see me from beyond the range of the carbine who may be armed with a more suitable round to take out long distance threats. That hesitation to determine if I am armed and a threat or not might be the difference between me getting home and being another nameless corpse. I'm to old to run around playing operator and going toe-to-toe with trained troops...or even untrained mobs. From a distance I want to look like what I am...just a poor schmuck trying to get home.
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Artofgolf
Member
For the price, you can't beat the Hi-Point. I thought both would serve our needs
(click on image to expand)ColoradoShooter77
Member
My 40 carbine is now my primary home defense gun, 180 grain hollowpoint at 1300 fps, that's awesome! Its only 25" long, so it pretty handy and maneuverable.
I mounted a small streamlight on the forward rail.
I mounted a small streamlight on the forward rail.
If you are in a situation where you are concerned about getting shot from a distance, I am not sure it matters whether you are carrying a rifle or not. You either shouldn't be in that situation or you should be armed because the people doing the shooting probably don't care. Just my opinion.
Looking at the thread title:
1. The sub2000 does make a decent high capacity defence rifle that is easy to use and easy on recoil. The 40 cal version kicks a little, but not too bad.
2. It is a pistol caliber carbine, not a rifle. There is some good and bad with that depending on preference. For me, I prefer my AK with a 40 round mag of soft points and a red dot.
3. The light weight and the folding part makes it easier to tuck away out of site depending on the situation. It is still a rifle and not a pistol so concealed carry is really not the purpose.
1. The sub2000 does make a decent high capacity defence rifle that is easy to use and easy on recoil. The 40 cal version kicks a little, but not too bad.
2. It is a pistol caliber carbine, not a rifle. There is some good and bad with that depending on preference. For me, I prefer my AK with a 40 round mag of soft points and a red dot.
3. The light weight and the folding part makes it easier to tuck away out of site depending on the situation. It is still a rifle and not a pistol so concealed carry is really not the purpose.
chipcom
member
I defined the situation...as shtf event where you have to get home...on foot. People are going to be trying to protect their own and the approach of armed people is going to be an obvious potential threat, whereas if I am not obviously armed, I might get the benefit of the doubt pending further observation.
FrankCastleThePunisher
Member
If in a situation where you need to get home walking, I'd rather have an AR 15 broken down in my bag where I could probably put it together just fast as unfolding the Sub2000. But I could also carry my Tavor or AR15 pistol in a concealed bag, and get access to them quicker if needed. You just have to use your imagination as to how you conceal carry your weapons. The Kel-tec Sub2000 is just the cheaper version of getting home concealed carrying , although you can now get an AR pistol in the $500.00 range.
Understood.
1. I was thinking that someone who would shoot you at a distance just at the sight of a firearm (as opposed to a slung rifle) would probably shoot you anyway.
2. I think I would be looking to travel at night or not out in the open.
But I would agree that it is hard to predict that sort of situation.
IMO, you can't put together an AR faster. Too many parts that may not be in place quite right in order to slap it together quickly. However, an SU16 that takes AR mags would probably deploy just as quickly as a sub2000. I have a Saiga 223 AK with a folding stock that is pretty short. One of the folding stock 30 cal AK's would probably work well also. I am sure there are a lot of other options.
I appreciate the desire to use a real rifle over a pistol carbine. It would be a better choice if it was available. If short barreled rifles were more available, that would open up other choices.
TruthTellers
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And here comes the AR fanboy brigade.
FrankCastleThePunisher
Member
No AR fanboy brigade at all. Just pointing out that there are other options just as good or better for backpack or computer bag concealed carry than the Sub 2000.
CHEVELLE427
Member
My shtf case has a sub2000 40 cal in it with a g 22 15 loaded std capacity mags with 4 30 round mags extra barrel for the glock and a 9mm conversion barrel for the glock ,few small parts all in a small pelicon case .
If just if you had to get gone fast your not going to carry all the ammo and guns we all have collected so I'll grab that one case .I'll have a carbine and a hand gun that takes same bullet and mags
The fold up is handy for storage
If just if you had to get gone fast your not going to carry all the ammo and guns we all have collected so I'll grab that one case .I'll have a carbine and a hand gun that takes same bullet and mags
The fold up is handy for storage
chipcom
member
Yes, and a nice short 12 gauge or a .22 would be a better choice than an AR, IMO.
Artofgolf
Member
chipcom
member
If you are in the middle of an active shooter event, you best not be whipping anything out once the law boys are on the scene.
ElPasoWrangler
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- Nov 8, 2006
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- 63
I just want to comment on the statement thar Kel-tec SU16C is junk. The people who have been out shot while we walked and plinked, more like what one could expect in self defense, might disagree. It is light, fires folded, and is as reliabe as any AR in its role. I have a hand full of ARs I own too. The bigest problem with Kel-tec is finding one to buy. I dont know how many the make but they sell quickly. They are not cheap and they have great service. I trust mine. Good luck finding one.
I'm not the biggest fan of the AR15, but any decently made compact AR is so far superior to these junky guns that the fan boys are more than encouraged to do their thing
Everyone has their preferences. The question comes in comparing price ranges. Are the inexpensive sub-$500 AR's better than SU-16's or the inexpensive pistol carbine rifles?
The Hipoint and Keltec pistol carbines are more compact than the alternatives and generally cheaper. I guess it depends on what you want and what caliber you want.
I'll go with my AK.
The Hipoint and Keltec pistol carbines are more compact than the alternatives and generally cheaper. I guess it depends on what you want and what caliber you want.
I'll go with my AK.
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