Lake City primer crimp???

[nursindude]

Hello again, Just got my 1000 rounds of alledged once fired Lake City .223. I was well prepared, had my swagger and was ready to get after things.. Tumbled the brass, deprimed it and I don't seem to see a crimp?? Kinda figured this thing would jump out at me.... Just out of curiousity I deprimed a couple of federal cases that I had fired and couldn't see any remarkable difference!!! Feeling brave (probably stupid) I put one of the Lake City in my hand primer (wearing safety glasses) and the primer (CCI #41) went in without a hitch??? Am I missing something?? The Brass is LC 06 with the nato insignia... Thought I'd get ya'lls opinion before going forth.. Would the primer go in if it was crimped?? Did I get "screwed" on my "once fired brass"?. Can't seem to find a "pic" of a crimped primer pocket... Thanks in advance.....

 

[Luggernut]

You should be able to see a "lip" if the case was a crimped primer case. If you can get a primer in without a problem I'd say there was no crimp.

FWIW- I've purchased "once fired" brass... I am no expert but it's obvious when a case has been fired more than once... and all the "once fired" stuff I've bought had mixed brass- some of which was absolultely fired more than once!

 

[nitesite]

If there is a tapered edge on your primer pockets or a bevel, rather than a sharp-edged 90° angle on your case heads then the original primers were already removed. You should see an indented ring around the primer at a right-angle to the pocket, even if each primer was already removed prior to your receiving it.

Missing primers is a sure indication that "once-fired" really isn't.

I'm getting a good pic of what crimped primers look like in just a minute.

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

Here is a discussion on primer crimps with pics.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3643849

 

[nursindude]

Appreciate the input... There does appear to be a ring crimp based on a pic in a separte thread; however, it doesn't seem to have a lip after depriming and running a pen from the inner to outer ring produced no obvious ridge. The Federal brass (once fired from Wally's world) also has the recessed ring.. Could the depriming eliminate the "crimp"?

 

[nitesite]

I've become convinced that some sellers use the term "once fired" to acknowledge that at some time this case has been fired. Maybe more than once, but definitely to say that at some time in the past it has been fired.

"Once I reloaded and fired these cases three times in one weekend." Hence it was once fired.

If a seller describes it as "fired only once" then that is a whole different story, and what we actually are looking for.

 

[nursindude]

nitesite.. Seller was on E-Bay and stated that these were all once fired by a navy unit's qualification somewhere in S. Carolina... He's got really good feedback and has lots listed... thanks again for input

 

[nitesite]

Could the depriming eliminate the "crimp"?

Sorry, pardner. Nope....

 

[nitesite]

During the final days of eBay selling cartridge brass I helped a co-worker buy some 5.56mm Lake City 06 "once fired" brass. When it arrived, 150 were true, and 100 were sloppy seconds that had been fired at least twice. The primer crimps had been cut out and there were many dissimilar primers in the cases. When you see a silver primer in a LC case, it is suspect in my opinion.

The seller has over 1000 positive feedbacks, selling mostly cartridge brass. Maybe we were just the unlucky ones, but I doubt that the seller really believed that it was all from the same firing.

 

[jeepmor]

I had this issue with some 9mm brass. They decapped fine, but repriming proved to jam up my handprimer tool due to this lip not allowing the primer to slip into the primer pocket.

Then, I chamfered them with the wilson tool to remove the crimping ridge and all went well on the priming front. Upon reloading yet again, it's not an issue, but you can see a shiny ring where the crimp has been removed and the chamfer now resides. If a swaging tool was used for decrimping, I'm not certain what they would look like.

Most range brass I find of the LC stamp is truly once fired. Usually for two reasons. Reloaders usually scrounge their brass pretty well and you only find onesie twosie pieces, not piles. And the crimp is intact, and the primer sealant is usually evident on the brass AND the primer. At least in my limited experience. I just stumbled on 100-200 rounds of LC at the range the other day. It was truly once fired because the crimps are still present. That's my reasoning anyhoo.

 

[nursindude]

Thanks again Guys (and or gals).. After priming 100 of 'em I found that 4-5 had a hard time accepting the primer.... Stripped off an edge of the primer, or deep penetration from the hand primer... It seems that all the ammo have the ring crimping, and all have had gold primers; however, 95 of 'em primed without incident... Could it be the CCI #41 primers? Possibly a smaller diameter than a typical "small rifle primer" (i.e. CCI #40)?? Haven't actually seen anybody mention the #41's.. They state they are "arsenal" primers, specifically for 5.56???

 

[flynlr]

i use only cci41 primers on my 223 .
here is what i have seen out in the world of lake city brass
there is milsup xm193 that is lake city and is always crimped.
have to use a swager before using the CCI 41 primers.
there is also federal AE223 ammo that uses LC brass some crimped some without the crimp. the ones with I have to swage, the ones without the cci 41 primers go in "firmly"
there is also some commercial reloaded ammo using LC brass and this brass takes the cci primers no problem.
even on some of the non crimped LC brass i see a half moon sliver of brass in my lee hand primer after seating the 41's.

the way i tell crimped from non .. my RCBS swager seats all the way in the non crimped and not at all in the crimped.

another way I tell about once fired. look for extractor marks on the rim of the brass. they usually line up with a small dent in the brass
if fired from a AR

 

[nursindude]

Thanks flynlr.... I do note the extractor marks/dent on the cases... All gold primers in all 1000 cases... No other brands mixed in... Case lengths were all between 1.765" and 1.770", reckon all need to be trimmed down to 1.760? Is there a major difference between the #40's and #41's?? Just happened to pick these up as Sportman's Wharehous as they had no other small rifle primers... I'm assuming that if the primers went in, there should be no problem?

 

[nitesite]

I use #41 quite a lot in my AR handloads as well. Good primers. They are considered a small rifle magnum primer, so use caution with any handload nearing MAX charges and pressures, and also ammo that is very hot (like sitting out in the sun).

Uhhhh... there is no such thing as a #40.

 

[nursindude]

Nitesite.... Thanks, the fact that they are considered magnum primers was what I was looking for... As for the other... CCI 400's is what I believe to be the small rifle primers?? Thanks for the info... I did go ahead and just swagger 'em to be on the safe side and had no other bad primer experiences... I think I had put trim to 1.760" when in fact the literature stated 1.750"... You guys are great and I imagine you'll hear from me again... I promise it won't be wal-mart related... haha just got a kick out of one of the other threads.... Kevin