LAPD's DACA situation

[Slater]

Only involves a couple people, but interesting nonetheless:


"LOS ANGELES - The Los Angeles Police Department is confronting a unique challenge as two of its newest recruit officers are DACA recipients, often referred to as Dreamers.

While California has passed a law allowing noncitizens to serve as police officers, this decision has raised significant concerns due to federal restrictions on firearm possession by DACA recipients.

"They kind of backed themselves into a corner because federal law dictates that the DACA recipients although eligible to work in the United States legally or in California, they can't take their guns home. They can't possess guns, they can't buy ammo, and so they're not police officers, technically armed police officers when they go home," explained retired LAPD Background Investigator Ken Roybal.

The core issue at hand is officer safety. When these officers are off duty, they are unable to carry firearms, leaving them vulnerable to potential threats.

<snip>"

Moderator's comment: I snipped this so we don't post the whole article, you can read the whole article at the link below:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/lapd-grap...052810387.html

 

[fastbolt]

Well, the state has already addressed the ability of non-citizens to be given powers of arrest over people when acting as peace officers, so the simple issue has now become whether such non-citizen peace officers may possess firearms and ammunition when not acting in their official capacity?

I'd wonder if the city attorneys and state AG have considered the perspective that a peace officer is always on-duty, if within the state? Or, at least remain able to independently decide to invoke their LE status and powers while not on the clock for their regularly assigned hours, if they determine they must intervene in some situation and take an enforcement action.

Interesting dilemma the state legislators seem not to have anticipated? How did the state senate and assembly floor analyses miss researching this inevitable aspect of being an armed peace officer when crafting SB 960?

Bill Analysis - SB-960 Public employment: peace officers: citizenship.

Words mean things, and definitions may not always agree when it comes to the nuances of when state and federal laws intersect, as well as how court cases may have created specific definitions and given us case law.

Interesting.

 

[Jim Watson]

Minds me of California allowing its AGEs to carry sidearms not deemed safe for the public.

 

[lilguy]

Felt like the right thing to do. All about feelings.

 

[Odd Job]

I edited the OP's original post so we don't have copyright issues arising from a whole story being posted. The whole article can be read at the link in the OP's post.

 

[CapnMac]

original post

This is Legal. Is there a specific Law that is being cited? Isn't this more about the politics of arming [group] rather than about firearms per se?

18 USC 922 (d)(5)(A) covers illegal immigrants. I will wager that THR is not the place to argue 8 USC 1101(a)(26) on the status of "immigrants" and their legal rights.

THR is probably not the venue to argue whether CA is allowed to bend their own definitions on just who can be certified as a LEO. Which is probably more fodder for political discussion, and there are plenty of other fora fro that purpose.

 

[Slater]

If Federal law dictates that DACA folks can't legally possess firearms, that seems pretty cut and dried.

 

[armoredman]

The logical solution is to employ them at the station in unarmed roles until the "situation" is "clarified". But, being CA, they will do something equal parts insane and stupid.

 

[Slater]

The State of California probably doesn't have any shortage of lawyers. I'm sure they'll come up with something.

 

[MEHavey]

See https://www.malakoutilaw.com/5commondacamistakes#viewer-749dt

 

[Slamfire]

Seems that California is running out of Cops when they are asking illegal immigrants to put their lives on the line by being LEO's.

 

[mljdeckard]

The law seems clear. However,

I tend to feel the same way about this as I do about say, the idea of funneling all military aged male undocs to a military recruitment center. "You want to be here? You say it's worth the sacrifice? Time to prove it." I can't see a black and white law change, but I would like to think, if, one day we get around to deciding who should stay, and under what terms...I will be a LOT more generous to people who strapped and rode into clearly hostile circumstances to put some skin in the game. If it was ME making the decision, it would definitely mean something.

 

[JTHunter]

If Federal law dictates that DACA folks can't legally possess firearms, that seems pretty cut and dried.

They will try to find a way around that restriction.

 

[JeffG]

Another question, can a foreign national be empowered by a (local or state) government to legally arrest an American citizen?? Depriving an American citizen of their freedom, seems to be a purely Constitutional function. Further, if the arrest is Constitutionally void because of the officer's status, is resisting force used by the (officer) foreign national, self defense against kidnapping and false imprisonment?

 

[wayneinFL]

Weird. Is there any other federal law that allows a prohibited party to possess a gun at work, but prohibit possession at the end of his shift?

 

[WestKentucky]

Clear as mud. Looks like mud. Smells like something else though. I’m all for folks coming in the right way, and I sympathize with folks who are guilty due to circumstances their parents put them into before they could understand or really do anything to change those circumstances, but they should be in other roles until the citizenship issue is cleared up. Parking cop, maybe. Clerk, admin, maintenance, motor pool at the station sure. Beat cop, doesn’t seem right. Locally we have “Public Safety” officers who are employed by the PD and they assist as needed until they get through police academy. Quite often that role is enough to keep order and peace, and seems quite appropriate.

 

[HKGuns]

Easy solution, get rid of DACA. The only answer when stupid stuff compounds upon more stupid stuff.

Let them get in line and immigrate legally.

 

[jmorris]

That said, they and our POTUS ignore Federal laws continuously.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'd wonder if the city attorneys and state AG have considered the perspective that a peace officer is always on-duty, if within the state? Or, at least remain able to independently decide to invoke their LE status and powers while not on the clock for their regularly assigned hours, if they determine they must intervene in some situation and take an enforcement action.

Interesting dilemma the state legislators seem not to have anticipated? How did the state senate and assembly floor analyses miss researching this inevitable aspect of being an armed peace officer when crafting SB 960?

Bill Analysis - SB-960 Public employment: peace officers: citizenship.

Words mean things, and definitions may not always agree when it comes to the nuances of when state and federal laws intersect, as well as how court cases may have created specific definitions and given us case law.

Interesting.

Because too many legislators apparently seem to be caught up in the belief that since they can write the laws, anything and everything they write must therefore BE "the law", never mind any responsibilities they may have with respect to ensuring their bills are, in fact, based on established legal principles.

 

[Speedo66]

These are the same people who took an oath to support the constitution, in its entirety, but either ignore it or pick and choose which amendments they wish to obey.

Is anybody really surprised at what they’re doing?

 

[Craig_AR]

In mid-December 2023 several news stories appeared updating the situation. LAPD had already been arming officers who are in the U.S. under DACA while on duty. Now they are trying to get permission to allow them to be armed 24/7. The LAPD claims they are working with both the California and U,S. Departments of Justice to make this happen.
12/13/23 LAPD chief says department is leading nationwide movement to arm DACA police officers
12/14/23 LAPD works to allow new DACA officers to keep their service weapons while off-duty
12/15/23 LAPD Working to Allow Non-Citizen DACA Officers to Carry Off Duty
<sarc>I am so glad that a department in which every officer swears to "uphold and defend the Constitution" is so dedicated to following the rule of law.</sarc>

 

[dogtown tom]

View attachment 1175205

That said, they and our POTUS ignore Federal laws continuously.

That "Quick Reference" is incorrect.
"Non immigrant aliens" most certainly CAN lawfully purchase and possess a firearm while in the USA.
Such persons include those lawfully in this country on a "Non immigrant" visa such as tourists, temporary worker or student visas.
All they need to purchase a firearm or ammunition is a US government issued photo ID and..........a hunting license.

I see such a buyer 3-4 times a month.

 

[armoredman]

The interesting question is a non-citizen placing a citizen under armed arrest. Yet another reason to avoid California - they arm aliens and disarm citizens.

 

[Old Dog]

The interesting question is a non-citizen placing a citizen under armed arrest. Yet another reason to avoid California - they arm aliens and disarm citizens.

I started a thread about this a few weeks ago, when LAPD came out with its new policy allowing its "DACA officer" to take their issued pistols home after their shift.

And I posed this situation.

I believe the entire thread was deleted, as it was... political.

 

[wayneinFL]

Politics completely aside, my understanding was that DACA was not a non immigrant visa, but an amnesty program. If they're prohibited from owning a firearm, they're prohibited from possession. If someone is a prohibited party, it would be illegal for the person issuing the firearm to hand off the firearm to the prohibited party. It also would be illegal for the prohibited person to receive the firearm. That would apply whether they took the firearm home or not.

Unless there's an exemption for military or law enforcement. Or I misunderstand DACA. If so, could someone who knows the law please correct me?

Is the ATF just ignoring it, like the DEA ignores marijuana "legalization"? If so, you're in for a dime, in for a dollar. If you're already breaking the law, why not let them take the gun home?