Lawn Salesman came banging on my door.

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comet605

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Interesting Situation a few weeks ago...

I live in a large long, narrow house on a corner street. There are two electric gates in the front and one electric gates in the side of the property. Next to the side electric gate is a small gate (4 feet high) designed for people , no lock on gate. Next to the side small gate is the side door , then on the front of the house is the main entrance door and near the garage is another entrance door that cant be seen from the street (bushes blocks the view).

So I am using my computer browsing the web when I hear 6-8 really loud rude knocks on my door near the garage,next I hear even louder knocks. My Mastiff was on the second floor so he could not hear the first set of knocks but at the second set of knocks I heard him coming down the stairs and lightly growling. I stupidly open the door and the first thing I say is what? He tells me he is a Gardner who just got out of prison and asks me if I need any lawn work done. I say no but he keeps talking and holds the door open with his foot. By this time my dog was behind me (I did not know, he likes to sneak up on guys then attack) and jumps up and lurches towards him with his mouth wide open. He lets go of the door and jumps back while I quickly close the door so my dog smashes against the door (I was thinking I don't want him to bite the guy gets sued, stupid I know) . My mastiff then goes crazy for the next five minutes trying to bash the door down while I tell him to be quiet.

What do I do next? I installed (myself) a cctv system a few months ago. So I go back and look and the footage and see that all three electric gates were closed. He entered through the small side gate and looked around for a second then knocked on the side door and touched the door handle :what: , then he went around to the front of the house and was just staring and the front for maybe five second (casing out the place or thinking about what tree needs work, I choose the first). He continues to walk towards the garage while looking toward the front of the house. There are no cars in the garage, my car was having some electrical issues so it was in the shop. Then he preceded to bang on the door closest to the computer room (were I am) and you know the rest.

Once I watched the video I called the non emergency police line and gave a description of the guy although the operator did not seem interested on what happened. Most likely because I phrased it like "some strange guy knocked on my door and asked if I need lawn service" I know stupid.

After this happened I felt so stupid :banghead:. I cant believe how much I let my guard down. My first thought when I heard the banging is let me see what this guy wants so I can continue using my computer. Very stupid. I also had a stagecoach shotgun a few feet away from my computer that I did not even think to take. I never thought of this guy of a threat until he held the door open. I made so many mistakes it's embarrassing. If I did not have my dog who knows what would have happened. What scares me the most though is that if he decided to break open the door at the other end of the house I would not even heard a thing. Thank god I have a dog to save my sorry self.

To my credit though I almost got robbed a few years ago but some quick thinking got me out of it so I am not a complete failure.
 
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Sounds like you learned a valuable lesson from this one.
It also seems like it could have been a possible casing due to the fact that he checked multiple doors? Then again, if so, it would seem strange that he would volunteer his criminal history. I had a similar case of letting my guard down once when I heard a knock at the door that leads from inside my garage to my hallway. There was a guy who claimed to be selling driveway resurfacing who actually walked INSIDE MY GARAGE to knock on that door rather than using the front door like a normal person. I just assumed it was my brother locking himself out of the house again. :banghead:
 
A shotgun is not an ideal weapon to answer a door with. If I determine a knocker could be a threat after looking through the peep hole, which i always do first, i grab a strategically placed HG so that i can partially open the door and easily keep it concealed yet still handy. I also have dogs as backup which I believe should always be the first step in creating a home defense system. Regardless, 99.99% of knockers on doors have no mal intent. Had he been there to steal it most likely was the smash and grab type who only go after unoccupied homes.
 
Feed your loyal Mastiff a nice thick Rib Eye steak tonight.
Where we mortal humans fail they usually dont.
 
This is a common ploy to see if someone is home. They'll knock and, if you answer, they'll solicit lawn work or gutter cleaning or something. If you don't (or if you do, and look like a "good" victim), well...
I had one recently come around. My storm door was closed, but the inner door was not. I heard him coming up, and was at the door when he reached it. I saw him carrying some kind of clipboard and a yard sign with the name of a popular alarm company on it. I was wearing, as I always do when up and not at work, my Kel-Tec PF-9, though he likely did not see it. I simply signaled him by drawing my hand across my throat and shaking my head that I was not interested in speaking to him. He insisted "I'm not selling anything.", but I still motioned for him to leave, which he did. Now, alarm salesman who have come in the past have always been well-dressed in at least slacks or khakis and a polo shirt. This guy was wearing a T-shirt and denim shorts. Also, I've never seen an alarm rep carrying a yard sign.
Two days later, I learned that he and another man had been arrested in the area that day for soliciting without a city permit, and the one that I saw had an extensive criminal history, including arrests for burglary.
 
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Good Puppy...

He was casing your place.. the walk around, then checking the garage. with no cars, he rode the odds, that there was no one home... he had tried the pass gate and it was unlocked.. he knocked loudly and rudely because he wanted to wake up anyone that may be home, or any dogs... usually they will begin to bark... yours came down with a growl, probably not heard through the door... You state that as he knocked he was also trying the door knob.. this shows clear intent to me... he was hoping that you would leave it unlocked like the pass gate.. many do... Who do you know, that would knock on a a strangers door and try to open it at the same time...NO ONE... Unless they were a thief...

My guess is that when you answered the door, he was probably more surprised than you were.. The blocking of your door with his foot was a clear message of intent to me.. and I don't know where you live, but I can tell you that in Texas, the description of Burglary

§ 30.02. BURGLARY. (a) A person commits an offense if,
without the effective consent of the owner, the person:
(1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion
of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a
felony, theft, or an assault; or
(2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony,
theft, or an assault, in a building or habitation; or
(3) enters a building or habitation and commits or
attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.
(b) For purposes of this section, "enter" means to intrude:
(1) any part of the body; or
(2) any physical object connected with the body. ..

We have filed burglary charges, and recieved convictions on those that threw a rock through a window, a screwdriver blade through a window. His foot would also have fallen under that category...

Technically my friend, under Texas law,when he stuck his foot in the door, it became burglary.. He just didn't leave with anything of tangible value... except his life..
Were it NOT for your dog, no telling how this would have turned out...

Good Doggy..., I agree, buy him a steak... Maybe more...
 
I say no but he keeps talking and holds the door open with his foot.
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Something to consider for future encounters.

Protect your personal space.

Regardless of the type, or location, of an encounter, a common theme among folks I see quite often involves a failure to protect ones personal space, and / or, a failure to take action when ones personal space has been violated. This failure is one of the things those with hostile intent look for in a potential target because it is a sign of either 1.) weakness / fear or 2.) ignorance of the hostile intent. Both are bad for the potential target.

A good rule of thumb is that if they can reach out and touch you without having to take a step to do it, than they are too close. While you can't maintain this distance everywhere (movies, lines in a store, etc...) there is NO reason that ANY stranger who approaches you out of the blue should, or NEEDS to be, closer. ESPECIALLY on YOUR property.

Maintaining this space allows you to do two crucial things. First, it allows you to better assess the intent of the stranger, and second, it gives you time to prepare to either evade or take direct physical action should they opt to jump you. ANY individual without hostile intent will respect your space when you call them on it and show signs that you will defend it. Simply extending your arm with an open hand and saying "Close enough, what can I do for you..." will stop most approaching folks in their tracks, and if they have no hostile intent, they will pitch their spiel from that distance. Try it the next time a sales clerk approaches you in a store, it works there, and everywhere else.

Failure to respect your space is an indication of potential hostile intent, and action needs to be IMMEDIATELY taken in accordance with the potential threat level and situation, either through evasion, or direct physical intervention. Strangers get ONE chance to comply, and failure to comply is indicative of hostile intent, and they are treated accordingly. Whether it is simply maintaining space and walking away, or taking a more aggressive physical intervention type of approach, I will NOT allow a stranger to breach my space and gain an advantageous position. Nobody should.

While on your property, you can, and should, be more assertive and aggressive. A stranger at the door that fails to give me space after being told to, will be physically removed from my space, have the door slammed in their face, and an appointment made to see the local LEO's. I answer the door with a handgun in hand hidden behind my hip, just for these types of encounters.

Bottom line...

Establish personal space boundaries, and be assertive about having people respect those boundaries (assertive does NOT mean rude), and should strangers fail to respect your boundaries, take IMMEDIATE action as warranted by the potential threat and situation, whether through evasion (preferred) or otherwise.
 
i grab a strategically placed HG so that i can partially open the door and easily keep it concealed yet still handy.
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A hg is definitely much easier to hide and less threatening than a shotgun. It is also easier to get in to play if they decide to push through the door. If somebody knocks on my door when I'm not expecting anybody my P-07 is in my hand behind my right leg.
 
Do not open the door to strangers.

It's really that simple. There is NO safe way to open a door to a knock. You can have a handgun, a shotgun or a mountain howitzer at the ready and criminal can still blow your face off in a fraction of a second. Or kick you on your back.

Talk through the door if you must, but keep it closed and bolted.

If you absolutely feel compelled to present yourself as a target, approach from around the other side of the house where you have some distance and cover. But even that is too risky IMHO. And I see no need for it. When was the last time you got anything useful from some random stranger pounding on your door?

While on your property, you can, and should, be more assertive and aggressive.
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I disagree. Assertive and aggressive might work for small children screwing around on the lawn or the neighbor who lets his dog use your facilities. It's a terrible idea for dealing with more serious encounters. Assertive means you're giving up concealment and cover in order to physically dominate a space. Concealment and cover are you biggest advantages in the home. But by confronting you're making your location known to the potential threat. And offering yourself as a target. You may also be escalating a situation. I think you should keep calm, avoid confrontation and if possible say nothing at all beyond "go away or I'm calling the cops." And you should say that away from the closed door.

If they need help then can tell you that and you can offer to call the police. If they are selling something they can leave. They have no right to go around banging on private doors and you have no obligation to listen to them. If they are police or officials they can identify themselves as such, and frankly you will almost certainly know if they are from squelches, squad cars and other official indications.
 
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Do not open the door to strangers.

It's really that simple. There is NO safe way to open a door to a knock. You can have a handgun, a shotgun or a mountain howitzer at the ready and criminal can still blow your face off in a fraction of a second. Or kick you on your back.

Talk through the door if you must, but keep it closed and bolted.
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That's about the size of it.
 
Now, alarm salesman who have come in the past have always been well-dressed in at least slacks or khakis and a polo shirt. This guy was wearing a T-shirt and denim shorts. Also, I've never seen an alarm rep carrying a yard sign.
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They were doing this in my neghborhood too. Their shtick is that all you have to do is put the sign up in your yard and they will install a system for free. It's BS and I think it's a ruse to case your house. My house has a sticker right next to the front door that shows I have an electronic alarm system and they still knocked on the door. My wife is very cautious and doesn't open the door for anybody and told them to go away we don't want any.

That's when he said I'm not selling anything and told her his little shpeel. She said leave the paperwork by the door I'll pick it up later. When I got home there was nothing by the door. hmmmm

Dogs are an awsome first line of defense. I need to install the cameras next.
 
At least you have a cctv system which helps somewhat.
Not to mention a monster sized dog!!
I can still open my front door to speak due to the fact that since the mid 1980's if you did not have burglar bars installed around here you would soon have the living dead prowling around in your home taking anything of value while you were away from home.
My front door opens up to a vestibule that gives me a distance of six feet of distance between the front door and burglar bar door protecting the front door to the house entrance.
At least I am way out of arms reach this way.
 
I've done Door-to-Door sales

I refused to go out until they provided me with an embroidered company shirt. They said black slacks and a clean white polo. I said, "what good is it going to do if everyone thinks I'm trying to rob them?"
When you approach a property with a fence, stop at the fence. Knock, call out "Good morning/afternoon", Make your presence known early. If no fence, knock at the door and step back 3 steps!! Keep your hands on the clipboard. This will let people feel more at ease. If they tell you to leave, LEAVE. If there are "NO TRESSPASSING" signs, skip to the next house.
Even with that you will have well defended people thinking you are trying to mug them. I've had the cops called on me, I've had guns pointed at me, I've had dogs sicked on me.
The pay sucked, and I didn't like having a shotgun pointed at me. I can't blame these people. I'll do the same thing when someone stolls down my driveway.
 
Ledgehammer said:
They were doing this in my neghborhood too. Their shtick is that all you have to do is put the sign up in your yard and they will install a system for free. It's BS and I think it's a ruse to case your house. My house has a sticker right next to the front door that shows I have an electronic alarm system and they still knocked on the door. My wife is very cautious and doesn't open the door for anybody and told them to go away we don't want any.

That's when he said I'm not selling anything and told her his little shpeel. She said leave the paperwork by the door I'll pick it up later. When I got home there was nothing by the door. hmmmm

Dogs are an awsome first line of defense. I need to install the cameras next.
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You are reading way too far into this. I was in the alarm industry. The sales reps live on commissions. They don't usually know anything about alarms, and their sales practices can vary tremendously. Some are really good and professional, others are sort of ho-hum. Some maybe did get the job to case your house. They will knock whether you got the alarm yesterday or yesteryear. Dealers commonly carry signs around, they feel it gives them a sales point (they like to stick it in the ground while they talk to you, if you sign the papers, they will leave it --they think it makes you less likely to back out). The more professional dealers and local companies that have a good reputation seldom do this though, opting on you to call them rather than the other way around.

I have a no trespassing sign on the gate, so all unexpected persons are automatically treated as such. There is no "opening the door to see who it is" around here. I know who it is, and it is someone that isn't supposed to be here. Usually I exit around the back and come up behind them. If I were to get a knock and find someone around back, it would probably hit the fan. I wouldn't shoot unless I had too, but I'd put the fear of God into them in a hurry.

I think the OP may have read too much into it too. These guys go to prison and get caged like animals, what do you think they will act like when they get out? They do this so they have a high return rate. In Norway, they try to rehabilitate them. That is important if you plan on releasing them, otherwise you are defecating where you eat! So here, they get out and don't know how to interact in society. They can't get a job. They essentially get out of prison, wander around until they get hungry enough or cold enough to commit a crime knowing they will go back. One guy in LA got life on 3 strikes because he couldn't get a job and stole a piece of pizza. Life for a piece of pizza, sounds pretty draconian and inhumane to me, if you dig the whole Christian thing, this is in direct violation of Moseic law.

So most likely this guy REALLY wanted to talk to you, as in he really wanted to cut your lawn. Someone probably gave a class in prison or he heard "get your foot in the door" and some people take this literally. That he tried the knob IS suspicious, but then again, I've seen people do the same thing that had no real interaction with people, not very good at social manners. Then again, maybe he was the guy starving and you were his piece of pizza.
 
I can provide links to this particular scam if need be. The fact of the matter is nothing is free and if it sounds to good to be true? It is.

http://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-05-2011/alarm-system-scam-alert.html

One guy in LA got life on 3 strikes because he couldn't get a job and stole a piece of pizza. Life for a piece of pizza, sounds pretty draconian and inhumane to me, if you dig the whole Christian thing, this is in direct violation of Moseic law.
Click to expand...

Please link that story... cuz :
Under the federal Three Strikes rule, now codified at 18 U.S.C. § 3559(c), the defendant receives mandatory life imprisonment if he or she:

Is convicted in federal court of a serious violent felony; and
Has two or more prior convictions in federal or state courts, where at least one of which is a serious violent felony. The other prior offense may be a serious drug offense.

The State of California is noted to have the harshest three-strikes laws. Existing law classifies some felonies, as "violent" or "serious." California’s "three Strikes and you’re out" law mandates that if a person has two or more previous serious or violent felony convictions, the sentence for any additional felony conviction (not just serious or violent) is 25 years to life.


Stealing a piece of pizza sure doesn't fit that category.Internet myth strikes again.
 
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I live in South Florida. The thing that bothers me is I read THR before this and the book "Thank god I had a gun" but completely forgot about it. I was so distracted thinking about what I just read on my computer while walking to to door that I threw caution to the wind. My real problem is that I was not in the right mindset.

Regarding were he was standing when I opened the door, he was so close to the door he had to step back when I opened the door. After I opened the door he took a step forward so he was maybe two feet away from me. It could be that he really just did get out of jail and had no manners, I don't know.

He was wearing a plain black t shirt and jean shorts.


I was thinking about what to if this happens again.
There are two schools of thought here:
A) Don't answer the door, wait for my dog to do the talking
B) Answer the door
C) Get wireless intercom system (may still have to open the door if someone claims it's a emergency)
_________________________________________________________
If I choose to answer the door:
1) Go get my .38 revolver from second floor ( will take 1-2 minutes )
2) Place Pistol in pocket or ......(assuming I am not wearing a holster)
3) Exit the house from another door (if they are at main door,go out from side)
4) Ask them what they want if they get closer then 5 feet tell them to stop
5) If I don't want whatever they are selling tell them to leave
6) If they refuse and keep coming closer but not making threats Ill tell them Ill call 911?
7) ?
 
Wow.

I'd like to add to your learning story. I was working on one of my motorcycles in the rear of the house one day. A guy claiming to be a security salesman walks up, and got too close. I backed off a couple steps. He started to come closer, and I asked him to stay where he was. He continued on his with his spiel about the alarm systems and such.

Needless to say I had my revolver sitting in my belt without a holster just tucked into the front of my pants. The grip was showing as my shirt had become tucked between me and the grip. He didn't notice at first, and then he did. He stopped talking, and stared at the revolver for a second, and when he stopped talking I told him this. I can see that you have noticed my security system, and it doesn't rely on anyone coming to my aid. Now if you would kindly leave my yard I can get back to what I was doing.

He said, I can see that, and you have a nice day. It has come to the point that you really cannot be outside without having protection. Be it your CCW or a super dose of spray. Not even in your own yard. It is ridiculous. Heck I might be ridiculous, but that is the way I feel. It is not paranoia, but awareness that no one has respect for you, what is yours, and crooks will go to any length to feel you out, and invade your space.

Don't open the door to strangers. I am having a tough time trying to get my 7 year old daughter to understand this. Someone knocks on the door, and she takes off to see who it is like it could be Santa Claus.
 
i also think the op may be reading into this a little too much. stay situationally aware but everybody isn't out to get you.
 
don't know I don't turn my friends door knobs before I knock on the door.
 
If you knock and then turn my door knob, you better be prepared to get shot.

As of 12-1-11 in NC if you illegally enter a home it is assumed that you meant to cause great physical harm or death. So, if you want to open that door and take that step go for it. I am not taking chances with my life or the lives of my family.

This guy was not a salesman. It is an old techniuqe. You go up to a house and pitch home improvement services. If the person invites you in you case the place. If it is worth hitting you come back a month later and do the job.

I say the OP did exactly the right thing in assuming this guy meant harm.
 
I'd hang a no soliciting/private property/do not enter sign on those gates and lock the pedestrian gate. I also do not see why this man would have told you he was just released from prison if he had nefarious intentions. I would expect him to say something less likely to raise an eyebrow.

If you knock and then turn my door knob, you better be prepared to get shot.
Click to expand...

If you shoot someone for this, you better be prepared to spend the next 25 with a cellmate named Bubba.
 
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