Lee Enfield question

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Rob G

Rob G

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Lee Enfield question - Now with pictures!!!

I'm hoping the members of The High Road can help with this.

My wife really wanted to get my a Lee Enfield for Christmas, unfortunately she trusted the good folks at Gander Mountain. What they sold her was a sporterized Enfield Model 4 Mk1, based on the barrel markings. The barrel has been chopped at least 6 inches and the stock has been chopped way more than that. The original sights are gone. They've been replaced by some horridly huge front sight monstrosity and an adjustable rear.

Yes I know pics would help but I can't remember off the top of my head how to do it right now. I'll post some later.

I'd take this thing straight back to the store and slap the clerk with it but that would be a felony and unfortunately all sales are final. So now I have to decide what to do with it. It's relatively short, light, and still shoots a powerful round. Plus it's already ruined so I can't make it worse, I think. Obviously I haven't shot it yet so no idea how accurate it is. Anyway, here are my four options:

1. Sell the damn thing. It's really not something I want, at all.
2. Scope it and keep it as a beater hunting rifle. This would be after determining if it's a good shooter of course.
3. Try and restore it to it's original condition. I don't know if it's possible but any advice you might have on this would be great. As near as I can tell it would need a new barrel, new sights, and a new stock.
4. Keep the action, ditch the rest, and do a custom build. Although honestly I have no idea how compatible this action would be with anything.

So there you have it High Road, my dilemma. What I really want, for the record, is an unmolested Enfield Model 4 Mark 1. What I might settle for is a decent rifle utilizing an Enfield action.

*Update* Photos....

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2 and continue the search for an unmolested example. She bought it for you with good intentions and can't help it is some unscrupulous POS took advantage of her.
 
"When life gives you lemons, make lemonade."

Take that Frankenstein's Monster and experiment upon it. Shoot it, modify it, do anything you want to it. You can't hurt it anymore than it has already been hurt.

Meanwhile, keep an eye out for what you really want.
 
If my wife went through the effort to get me what she thought I really wanted, I would keep it. It might not have been what you meant, the Gander clerk might have been a fool, liar, or just ignorant, or any number of other things, but it was an earnest gift. Does she know she screwed up? If not, I'd keep it because a gift in earnest is worth keeping.
 
It might just turn out to be a great shooting rifle. They do make great truck guns, especially when they are cut down and scoped with an sk scope mount. Now you have a good excuse to get into reloading for it. On down the road you will find your unmolested no.4, but you can use this rifle as a learning curve.
 
Rob,

Many ways to proceed, some could be problematic.

Does the wife know/understand weapons? Does she know that what she thought would be a good present had been butchered? If not, don't say a word.

What to do?
Praise it as a wonder and polish it up and proudly display it.
Hope that it will produce 1/4 minuet angle accuracy (keep dreaming).
Us it as a 'lender' and trunk gun.
Sell or trade it off.
OR
Re-barrel with a 20 or so inch barrel chambered in .44 Mag. Do a half cut of a mag follower and set/weld a spacer for the follower to ride on and hold .44 Mags in a forward ride. Stick a 'red' dot or other quick sight on top and have a quick, light, ten shot .44 Mag rifle.

It all depends upon not offending the wife and how much you want to spend.

Don't burn your bridges, if you get my jest.
 
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I'd clean it up real good and run some ammo through it to see how it shoots. You owe at least that to your wife and the rifle both. Give it a chance, it might be a great shooter! There's several scope mount options for them too. There's still lots of No.4's out there for decent prices, you'll find one. I have two and a No.5, and a couple No.1 Mk.III's as well.

And convert it to .44 Magnum? Never heard of that one before.....
 
If you are going to spend the money to rebarrel it you might as well wait for Criterion to release their Milspec barrels for the No4s. They have been advertising the fact for awhile.

That way you can get it back into original spec and "rescue" the thing.
 
OR....To avoid hurting anyone's feelings...
Find what you want in the original configuration, just buy the new one and sell the current one without consulting your wife.
Then show her the new one and tell her how you restored the one she bought to the original configuration.

So she will think it is still the same rifle which you lovingly restored and yoy will not be in deep doo-doo.
 
Thanks for all the great replies so far. My wife is actually aware that the rifle isn't right. I can't actually hide anything from her. She's not upset and would be okay with anything I did with it. I don't know how good a shooter this thing will be. I can't actually see any rifling near the end of the bore. So kind of worried the barrel may be shot out. I also noted the windage adjustable rear is almost all the way to the left. I'm not sure why that is but it's possibly bad. Either way the iron sights are junk. The front sight is almost as wide as the entire rear sight assembly. Scoping it would be a must if I keep it. Any idea if you can scope an Enfield over the action?
 
Sometimes No.4 Lee Enfields shoot really good with shortened barrels. Many well used originals have the muzzle worn from using pull-throughs to clean the bore. Also, the original barrel is somewhat light and thin. Shortening it stiffens it up significantly and you can create a perfect crown at the muzzle end. The .303 British Cartridge is easy and relatively inexpensive to reload and tailor the ammo for the gun which will also enhance both usefulness and accuracy. Since the gun has no real collector value you won't be committing blasphemy by drilling and tapping for a strong scope mount. In the meantime you can satisfy that Lee Enfield itch, learn the gun's idiosyncrasies and be on the lookout for an original that might not shoot any better.
 
My wife is one that in most cases can take or leave most of the firearms we have. With the exception of a few including a very nice Enfield No1 Mk3* with 17" bayonet. When I brought it in my wife said "Let me look at that", which in other words meant I no longer was sole owner of the rifle. Not saying that its impossible to find a decent Enfield it only took me about 20 yrs to find one that had not been butchered or "Bubbafied". The one aspect that made my wife take a liking to this one was on the bayonet was a persons initials. Reason for that is that she had a service knife that her late husband's dad had carried in WW2, and he served in what she referred to as some kind of bulge. If you need parts or other items I have found that Numrick's has just about anything you could need, this is a link to their website dealing with SMLE's http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/SMLEAlsoSeeEnfield-33496.htm
 
@ Rob G
Don't go throwing the gun under the buss just yet.
Try it out and see how it does.
It sounds like it would be a great Project gun.
But it would be cost prohibitive to try and put it back to original.
But you can rebarrel it to 444 marlin, and Maybe the 7.62x54 R
But they do make for good short barreled sporters if done properly and not just some garage built amature Frankinrifle.
How is the bore , on what is left of the barrel ?
 
Just to follow up on a few comments:

How is the bore , on what is left of the barrel ?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure actually. You can't see any rifling at all at the bore end. I didn't have enough time prior to heading off to my family's Christmas gathering to find an appropriate light and check the whole bore though.

The .303 British Cartridge is easy and relatively inexpensive to reload and tailor the ammo for the gun which will also enhance both usefulness and accuracy.
Click to expand...

I honestly hope reloading is not necessary to make this in to a worthwhile hunting gun. I don't currently reload and I have neither time nor space in my house to do it. It's going to have to shoot well off factory ammo for the foreseeable future.

I'd clean it up real good and run some ammo through it to see how it shoots.
Click to expand...

I intend to find a local gunsmith who can look it over, check it for safety, and give me an honest opinion about it's condition. (If you know anybody in the Houston TX area you can recommend please let me know.) Actually shooting to check for accuracy might not be possible. The top of the front sight is extremely wide, like half the width of the entire rear sight assembly, maybe more. It's a bad combination that's probably pretty good for close range hip shots without using the rear sights. For any kind of precision work it's useless.

rob,women lie
Click to expand...

The vast majority of my coworkers are women, so I definitely know this to be true. No offense to any ladies on here. My wife though keeps it honest with me. Only way to live a married life in our opinion.
 
I have a friend who is a gunsmith and has a shop. He buys a lot of guns from estates in bulk so when someone dies and the survivors don't want to deal with selling any or some of the weapons of the deceased he buys the whole lot for one price. Many times there will be older weapons in the collection that either have been bubba'd or do not have much collector value or marketability and he gives me first chance on those at a highly discounted price. One of the recent acquisitions I have made by this method was an Enfield Number 5 that had been butchered pretty severely but had crisp rifling. The flash hider/front sight had been cut off and the only wood on the front was the lower and it had been carved pretty dramatically. My first thought was to make it a parts donor, but after cleaning it up and reassessing it without the furniture I decided to try to restore it as much as possible. I was able to get a new flash hider/front sight from Numrich and although the barrel will be slightly shorter I am hopeful that I can refinish the buttstock and perhaps get a replacement lower piece to match. I really enjoy shooting my Enfields and the .303 ammunition is available from Privi and S&B at reasonable prices, but I reload and primarily only buy loaded ammunition to create empty brass....

I guess the big decider for you would be the condition of the rifling.
 
@ Rob G
If you do not have a place to reload, you can always get a Lee Classic reloader, Hand loading Kit.
When I bought my first .303, I lived in a small apartment with no space.
I bought two boxes of .303 with reloadable cases, and could load up both boxes in and hour sitting at the kitchen table.
It is a nice addition and can be taken with you when you go camping and such.
I use to take my rifle and my reloader camping and shoot all weekend with no problem.
I now have two loading presses but still have the Lee Classic Loaders for Odd Calibers and ones that I dont shoot that much like 7.62x54R and 38 S&W
 
Float Pilot said:
OR....To avoid hurting anyone's feelings...
Find what you want in the original configuration, just buy the new one and sell the current one without consulting your wife.
Then show her the new one and tell her how you restored the one she bought to the original configuration.

So she will think it is still the same rifle which you lovingly restored and you will not be in deep doo-doo.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's exactly what I would do too.
 
OR....To avoid hurting anyone's feelings...
Find what you want in the original configuration, just buy the new one and sell the current one without consulting your wife.
Then show her the new one and tell her how you restored the one she bought to the original configuration.

So she will think it is still the same rifle which you lovingly restored and you will not be in deep doo-doo.
Click to expand...
Yup, that's exactly what I would do too.
Click to expand...

I'd never marry anyone dumb enough to fall for that. I mean, she would have to be pretty dumb to marry me, but not that dumb! :D
 
Plenty of Gun Shows in the Houston area. HGCA coming up on Jan 18-19 at Reliant Park.

Take it there and walk around, might go a long way in trade for one in the configuration you want.

Plenty of good smiths in Houston, probably not needed though. Check out Freer Gun shop or Ed Vandenberg.

BTW, talk your wife into going to a show with you, can't get herself to stop going now. She pesters me about every weekend about whether or not there is a show we need to go to. :)
 
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