If you go on the Dillon web site you can view the RL550B user manual and see how it is mounted. It is a recess on top of the Die to attach the powder measure.
Lee factory crimp die issues
- Thread starter Ccctennis
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Another update. There has been lots of advice on this issue. I have done a few corrective issues and here is where I stand. I apologize for the length of this post but I hope to help corral all the commenters that don't read all the posts.
I am using 4 stages. After stage three seating which I seated to 1.160 (factory seating depth) I moved to stage 4 the fcd. I put the slightest crimp which put me at .377-.378 same as factory ammo. Still doesn't plunk in my barrel or case gauge. I decided to run an empty piece of brass through the stages without a bullet just to see how much of the belling I was taking out. Everything mic'ed properly but still not fitting in case gauge or barrel. It is sticking at the very end. I can push on the round with a bit of pressure and it will finally fit flush in barrel or gauge. Something has to be out of round with my brass or fcd. I will keep at it as now I am determined. But for all those that have questions. I am sitting working with a factory round to setup the dies and using my once fired brass.
I am using 4 stages. After stage three seating which I seated to 1.160 (factory seating depth) I moved to stage 4 the fcd. I put the slightest crimp which put me at .377-.378 same as factory ammo. Still doesn't plunk in my barrel or case gauge. I decided to run an empty piece of brass through the stages without a bullet just to see how much of the belling I was taking out. Everything mic'ed properly but still not fitting in case gauge or barrel. It is sticking at the very end. I can push on the round with a bit of pressure and it will finally fit flush in barrel or gauge. Something has to be out of round with my brass or fcd. I will keep at it as now I am determined. But for all those that have questions. I am sitting working with a factory round to setup the dies and using my once fired brass.
notaglockfanboy
Member
As stated before a few times, put the case gauge away and try it in your chamber. You are not shooting them from that case gauge regardless of how many times you try it or how well it fits. If it fits in your chamber it will fire in your chamber. Or try this, pull a bullet from a factory un fired round, resize it, bell the mouth, reseat the bullet and run it through the FCD.
LiveLife
Member
Looking at the picture, significant amount of bullet base is sticking above the case neck. Are you sure the ogive of the bullet is not hitting the start of rifling?
I am not sure if this was mentioned before. Did you ever determine the max OAL/COL for that bullet?
When I conduct load development for any new bullet, I always determine the max OAL/COL first. Then I function check by feeding/chambering from the magazine to determine the working OAL. Then I do the powder work up.
I use Lee/RCBS/Dillon dies and do not use FCD unless I have out of round bullets I need to "fix". I am going 400,000+ reloaded rounds and counting and my 9mm rounds using 115/124 gr FMJ and plated RN bullets at 1.135" OAL worked in all the different pistols I have shot them in (I think over 10 different brands).
I am not sure if this was mentioned before. Did you ever determine the max OAL/COL for that bullet?
When I conduct load development for any new bullet, I always determine the max OAL/COL first. Then I function check by feeding/chambering from the magazine to determine the working OAL. Then I do the powder work up.
I use Lee/RCBS/Dillon dies and do not use FCD unless I have out of round bullets I need to "fix". I am going 400,000+ reloaded rounds and counting and my 9mm rounds using 115/124 gr FMJ and plated RN bullets at 1.135" OAL worked in all the different pistols I have shot them in (I think over 10 different brands).
StrutStopper
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If you suspect your FCD is out of round but not sure if you're doing something else wrong during your first three stages, then why don't you try taking a factory round, verify it passes the plunk test and/or fits in your case gauge, then run it through the FCD and check it again. If it no longer fits, sounds like its time to call Lee customer service. If it still fits, back to head scratching.
LiveLife
Member
Was this issue ever resolved?Ccctennis said:
Can you do a round and seat/taper crimp at the same time without using the FCD to see if the round would fully chamber in the barrel/gauge?
When using one die for seating and crimp I have the same issue. About 1/3 of the rounds will not fit the gauge OR THE BARREL. I get people use their barrels for testing but I have a dozen 9mm guns and also these rounds would be for family members other guns. Hence why I need and have a gauge. Also I do not need to break my guns down everytime I reload.
LiveLife
Member
OK, so let's do a summary recap:
1. Plated bullet diameter measures .355"
2. Resized case pass the gauge and barrel
3. Bullet seated to 1.150" with .378" taper crimp won't fit the barrel nor gauge
4. Running the finished round through FCD carbide sizer ring only makes things worse.
Something doesn't sound right.
Can you seat the bullet to 1.125" with .376"-.377" taper crimp without FCD and see if that will pass the barrel?
1. Plated bullet diameter measures .355"
2. Resized case pass the gauge and barrel
3. Bullet seated to 1.150" with .378" taper crimp won't fit the barrel nor gauge
4. Running the finished round through FCD carbide sizer ring only makes things worse.
Something doesn't sound right.
Can you seat the bullet to 1.125" with .376"-.377" taper crimp without FCD and see if that will pass the barrel?
RugerOldArmy
Member
...
LiveLife
Member
Also, how are you determining whether the rounds are "passing/failing" the barrel?
Do they drop in freely with a "plonk" and spin without rubbing the rifling?
Do they drop in freely with a "plonk" and spin without rubbing the rifling?
I size all my 9MM brass, then I check them in my Wilson case gauge, and those that do not drop back out on their own are scrapped. They are too fat near the case head.
Using those cases that passed the gauge to load I have no problems. I assume the cases had been subjected to over pressure, swelling the case head just slightly.
Try gauging all the sized brass, scrapping those that fail, and try it that way.
Remember, adjust the sizer die down to make sure it is just barely missing the shell holder or shell plate when actually sizing a case, not just by running it up there with no case.
Using those cases that passed the gauge to load I have no problems. I assume the cases had been subjected to over pressure, swelling the case head just slightly.
Try gauging all the sized brass, scrapping those that fail, and try it that way.
Remember, adjust the sizer die down to make sure it is just barely missing the shell holder or shell plate when actually sizing a case, not just by running it up there with no case.
Potatohead
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My bad,
Its no excuse but Ive had a rough couple days. HVAC unit at the house decided to die Thursday afternoon..hard to sleep when you're freezing (I guess I wouldnt make a good soldier)..even harder to sleep the next night after coughing up 6 grand for a whole new unit.
Post #2 from JWalts27 actually ticked me off a few days ago and I kept "almost" posting a rebuttal to his post- writing out my little spill a couple times, then thinking better of it and deciding not to click the "post reply" button.
I know you're not worried about it either way, but I apologize for taking it out on you.
I actually crimp with the seater myself, but did like the FCD when I used to use it a lot. I'll still pull the FCD out and give it a whirl now and again when I feel like changing things up, provided I have the energy to dig through the big box of reloading gear to find it.
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LiveLife
Member
Walkalong said:
Ccctennis, Walkalong's post brought something else to mind.Ccctennis said:
Since you are new to progressive reloading, let me explain the shell plate tilt/deflection which may be contributing to your situation that you won't experience with single stage reloading.
As Walkalong posted, when you initially adjust dies without cases or just one case, shellplate tilt will be different than when all the stations are full of cases as they apply different amount of force on the dies/shell plate. Shell plate tilt/deflection will affect your initial die adjustments which may result in not fully resized brass and variance in OAL/COL (and due to these reasons, some of us use pre-resized cases for progressive reloading for more consistent loads).
Although I initially adjust my resizing die without a case, when I am doing my initial QC runs with all stations full of cases, I will recheck the top of upstroke of the ram to make sure I do not see daylight between the bottom of the die mouth and the top of the shell plate. As posted, overly expanded +P loads/NATO pressure spec rounds will require more effort to fully resize and if the resizing die is not adjusted down further, it won't fully resize and not pass the gauge or the barrel.
Yes, the reason why the resized case passed the gauge/barrel initially is because you made sure it was fully resized (by itself). With the stations full of cases, recheck the resizing die and see if you see any daylight. If you see daylight, readjust the die down so you don't see daylight. The resized case now should pass both the gauge and barrel. If they do, your finished rounds loaded to working/max OAL/COL and .376 - .378" taper crimp should pass the gauge/barrel. I posted earlier for you to test OAL of 1.125" with taper crimp of .376" because 1.125" should clear the start of rifling for most barrels regardless of ogive or bullet nose shape and .376" is the maximum taper crimp I use with plated bullets (I will also use .377"-.378" depending on the brand as diameter sizing differs from .355" to .3555"/.356").
Let us know if this helps.
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Thanks for all the great advice. I will try again after the unc game. I will start forts by seating deeper to see if the bulet ogive is maybe catching. I will pull all dies and start again. I'm not giving up on this! BDS thank you for a really great explanation. I do need to go back and look at that with the shell plate.
. I will start forts by seating deeper to see if the bulet ogive is maybe catching. I will pull all dies and start again. I'm not giving up on this! BDS thank you for a really great explanation. I do need to go back and look at that with the shell plate.I don't know about the Dillon 550, but the sub-plate on the LNL doesn't flex differently while only sizing vs doing all the other steps together with it. At least not enough to measure or worry about.
That said, yes, check for that as well.
That said, yes, check for that as well.
1KPerDay
Member
Not sure I've read everything completely but I'd try seating deeper next.
And IF you can get the rounds to pass the plunk test in chamber/gauge WITHOUT the factory crimp die, (using the standard seating/crimping die to do both processes), then you can simply avoid the FCD.
That's what I do in 9mm at least. I use the FCD in .40 and .45 because it hasn't given me trouble, but my 9mm die set came without it and all my reloads have been fine (as long as I matched OAL to the chamber... I had some trouble with smallball loads in an S&W M&P chamber... no fault of the die.).
And IF you can get the rounds to pass the plunk test in chamber/gauge WITHOUT the factory crimp die, (using the standard seating/crimping die to do both processes), then you can simply avoid the FCD.
That's what I do in 9mm at least. I use the FCD in .40 and .45 because it hasn't given me trouble, but my 9mm die set came without it and all my reloads have been fine (as long as I matched OAL to the chamber... I had some trouble with smallball loads in an S&W M&P chamber... no fault of the die.).
I have a feeling some might disagree too.
Do you think everyone who uses the FCD does so because they dont know how to crimp with the seater? Because it sounds that way
It wasn't a cheapshot at all to you or the OP. I think its important that newer reloaders realize a FCD shouldn't be used as a fix all. 9 out of 10 times if the FCD has to over work itself something is wrong in the previous 3 stations. Before Lee invented the FCD millions of rounds had been loaded with out it. Just sayin. I personally use one to crimp my .357mags and it does its job.
Do you think everyone who uses the FCD does so because they dont know how to crimp with the seater? Because it sounds that way
It wasn't a cheapshot at all to you or the OP. I think its important that newer reloaders realize a FCD shouldn't be used as a fix all. 9 out of 10 times if the FCD has to over work itself something is wrong in the previous 3 stations. Before Lee invented the FCD millions of rounds had been loaded with out it. Just sayin. I personally use one to crimp my .357mags and it does its job.
That would make more sense. Lee sells a Bulge Buster die to remove the bulge if needed. On occasion I come a across Glock brass and just resize with no issues. I suppose certain chambers could be tighter than others and lead to issues similar to yours.
Google Glock bulge and it will answer if you have that problem.
Toprudder
Member
I thought "Glock bulge" is a problem limited to 40 cal. I've never seen the Glock smiley face on any 9mm.
As far as the FCD, I use one in my Dillon 550 for 45 acp. I like the idea of separating the seat and crimp operations. Dillon believes in it as well, since their die sets have separate crimp dies. If you seat/crimp in one operation, the crimp is happening while the bullet is still being shoved into the case. Fine if all you are doing is removing the bell, but anything more than that can cause shaving of lead, coating or plating, which causes other problems. Sure, reloading was done for years without a FCD, the same could be said for progressive presses, wet tumbling, carbide size dies, etc. JMHO
Back to the OP, I'm not sure the problem is with the FCD. I'm wondering just how concentric the bullet is from the seating operation. Take a few rounds out of the seating die and roll them on a smooth surface - glass would be ideal. If it does not roll smoothly without wobble, then the problem is in seating. The seating stem may not be centering the nose of the bullet completely. The FCD operation may just be highlighting the problem.
As far as the FCD, I use one in my Dillon 550 for 45 acp. I like the idea of separating the seat and crimp operations. Dillon believes in it as well, since their die sets have separate crimp dies. If you seat/crimp in one operation, the crimp is happening while the bullet is still being shoved into the case. Fine if all you are doing is removing the bell, but anything more than that can cause shaving of lead, coating or plating, which causes other problems. Sure, reloading was done for years without a FCD, the same could be said for progressive presses, wet tumbling, carbide size dies, etc. JMHO
Back to the OP, I'm not sure the problem is with the FCD. I'm wondering just how concentric the bullet is from the seating operation. Take a few rounds out of the seating die and roll them on a smooth surface - glass would be ideal. If it does not roll smoothly without wobble, then the problem is in seating. The seating stem may not be centering the nose of the bullet completely. The FCD operation may just be highlighting the problem.
Ok, he says: "When using one die for seating and crimp I have the same issue".
That statement implies to me that he did not use the FCD for that run. If that is true then how can this be a FCD issue? It can't. It he in fact did not use the FCD for that run then it sure seems to me that there is something else going on here that has nothing to do with the FCD. So, if in fact he did not use the FCD for that run, can we stop with the FCD bashing and get on with attempting to solve the problem?
I'm really curious: what the heck is going on here?
So: CCctennis please confirm or deny: You made a run without using the FCD and the problem remained? Thanks!
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