Lee Loadmaster Priming Upgrade?

[wally]

I've ran across mentions here that Lee has upgraded and improved the Loadmaster priming system.

Does anyone have contact info at Lee to call or Email to find out about getting mine upgraded? I'd like to give it one last chance before I get rid of it.

 

[kingmt]

You can always email them & let us know. Do you size & prime in the same station? What problems are you having?

 

[jmorris]

There are several generations, this will hel identify what you have now.

http://www.lee-loader.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1000

Or you can just order the latest from Titain.

That's for the "feed system" the best improvement I found for cases that didn't fit the shell plate very well (like 9mm) was to install an extra die in #2 to center the case over the incoming primer.

 

[Load Master]

I've ran across mentions here that Lee has upgraded and improved the Loadmaster priming system.

Does anyone have contact info at Lee to call or Email to find out about getting mine upgraded? I'd like to give it one last chance before I get rid of it.

Wally, if you give a little more detail of your problem I maybe able to give you some help with correcting it. How old is this Load Master? Is the issue with both large and small primers? What caliber?

 

[wally]

Thanks for the link. My press was purchased sometime late 2005, early 2006. From the photos my primer system is Gen 1. I've only used it for small pistol primers (.40S&W).

I watched all the videos from back then before I got the press and used the "prime when resizing" trick form the start (ordered the universal decapping die along with the press).

The case feeder has needed some futzing around, seems my crank slider was defective from the start, but my real problem has always been sideways, crushed, or upside down primers -- 3-6 per hundred seems fairly typical.

I will see if I can get it replaced via the leeprecision.net/support website.

I did have one primer detonation, but no chain reaction (blast shield was in place) and pretty much stopped using it afterwards.

 

[Load Master]

Thanks for the link. My press was purchased sometime late 2005, early 2006. From the photos my primer system is Gen 1. I've only used it for small pistol primers (.40S&W).

I watched all the videos from back then before I got the press and used the "prime when resizing" trick form the start (ordered the universal decapping die along with the press).

The case feeder has needed some futzing around, seems my crank slider was defective from the start, but my real problem has always been sideways, crushed, or upside down primers -- 3-6 per hundred seems fairly typical.

I will see if I can get it replaced via the leeprecision.net/support website.

I did have one primer detonation, but no chain reaction (blast shield was in place) and pretty much stopped using it afterwards.

I would suggest checking the timing of your shell plate too. Lee had some shell plates that were miss timed (camming on the underside of the shell plate). An easy check, the primer push pin should be centered in the shell plate opening like in this photo. Ram fully up. If the pin is off set to one side you may have to have the shell plate replaced. I've had two bad ones (different cals) and Lee replaced both.

 

[wally]

Mine has always looked centered, but your photo clearly shows that my primer anvil has had a "chip" blown out of it from the detonation.

 

[Load Master]

Mine has always looked centered, but your photo clearly shows that my primer anvil has had a "chip" blown out of it from the detonation.

I should have added to check each of the five shell locations. If the camming is off one or two the location might be off while the others are on.

 

[Load Master]

This is what a missed timed shell plate looks like.

 

[AR-Bossman]

This is what a missed timed shell plate looks like.

So is the mis-timing ground INTO the plate and whatever timing adjustments you make on the press can't fix that?

 

[Load Master]

So is the mis-timing ground INTO the plate and whatever timing adjustments you make on the press can't fix that?

You can adjust until you are blue in the face and it will not change if the shell plate is miss timed. If you look at the shell plate the underside where the indexing rod rides can be off to the shell holes in the side of the plate. The way I found the issue, I have two Lee Load Masters, one is almost 6 years old, the other 2. Both came as .223 Rem loading kits. The old one would flip primers and also sideways. The newer one worked perfect. Without going into the boring details, I used the Red X strategies that are based on the philosophies developed by Dorian Shainin. I was part of the team using this process back in my working dates. In short, by having examples of a good versus bad assembly you can use the Red X process to identify the root cause of the issue. In my case, it zeroed in on the shell plate. If I moved this old shell plate to the new press the new press would start messing up primer installs. New plate on the old press and the old press worked perfectly.

So, yes, no adjusting will fix the issue if the shell plate is miss timed. The only fix is a new properly timed shell plate.

 

[wally]

I can't see any irregularity in the indexing at the top of the stroke, but I'll check again to be sure once I've replaced the primer system. OTOH at the bottom of the stroke there seems to be a fair bit of slop that gets removed as the ram nears the top, is this the way it is supposed to be?

Turns out I'd ordered a replacement primer system right after the detonation, it is the third generation assembly so I'll install it and hopefully give it a go over this holiday weekend.
If its not too expensive, it might be worth getting a replacement shell plate to try if the Gen 3 primer system isn't the solution.

I put the replacement primer system aside and basically stopped using the press, being happy to just stick with shooting 9mm & .45ACP as I have a Dillon 650 dedicated to each. But after taking inventory before the election to be sure to have enough powder and primers for all the bullets I had on hand (in case things went badly), found I had enough .40S&W bullets purchased ~10 years ago (one of my best retirement "investments" ) when prices were about half what they are now that I needed to start shooting .40S&W again, besides I've several guns in that caliber that I really like. I wanted to revisit the Loadmaster before junking it (sell it here?) if I don't find a solution. Plan B would be to just get a conversion kit for my 9mm Dillon (about $200 for complete fast and easy tool head swap) so I won't have to swap primer systems.

 

[kingmt]

I wasn't aware of the shell plate issue. I have several that I've never had on my press. I'll have to check them out.

 

[wally]

So is the mis-timing ground INTO the plate and whatever timing adjustments you make on the press can't fix that?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any possible adjustments to the indexing/timing on the Loadmaster.

 

[jmorris]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any possible adjustments to the indexing/timing on the Loadmaster.

There is a long bolt that runs from the bottom of the hollow ram to the cast aluminum "carrier" and it's adjustment is critical to get the indexing to work.

If you are too far CCW the "flipper" won't do anything, too far CW and it crashes. You have the carrier adjustment and to fine tune you run the flipper in or out. If you take the time to figure this part out, you are well on your way to being happy with the press.

The older "post" style shell plates seem better than the later "star" style. Not sure why they changed them.

Video of function on index.



"Old" shell plate on left.

 

[Load Master]

I can't see any irregularity in the indexing at the top of the stroke, but I'll check again to be sure once I've replaced the primer system. OTOH at the bottom of the stroke there seems to be a fair bit of slop that gets removed as the ram nears the top, is this the way it is supposed to be?

As the ram is raised the primer push pin engages the taper on the underside if the shell plate and will be centered in the opening. The older shell plates didn't have this.



There are differences in the primer push pins old to new too. The older ones (left) are smaller diameter and are smoother. The newer ones are flatter with a rougher surface.



As far as adjustment. there is a little with the carrier bolt. If the primer push pin is off center like the earlier posted photo, the shell plate would have to be replaced to correct it.

 

[rmelchiori]

I found the solution to my priming issues on my Loadmaster on Mike's Reloading Bench website. The main problem is that the case doesn't align perfectly over the primer pin. Mike found that if you drill out the primer pocket of a case, you can see exactly how it aligns over the pin. In my case loading 9mm, it never lined up exact. I tried the sizing die in station 2, but that didn't solve the problem. Mike's suggestion is to adjust the case retainer arm until the case aligns over the pin. Once I did that, 99% of my priming issues were gone. Of course, making sure that the press is mounted rock solid so there is no movement to disturb the primer while it's sitting on the primer pin is a given.

http://www.mikesreloadingbench.com/mikes reloading bench_015.htm

 

[Load Master]

I found the solution to my priming issues on my Loadmaster on Mike's Reloading Bench website. The main problem is that the case doesn't align perfectly over the primer pin. Mike found that if you drill out the primer pocket of a case, you can see exactly how it aligns over the pin. In my case loading 9mm, it never lined up exact. I tried the sizing die in station 2, but that didn't solve the problem. Mike's suggestion is to adjust the case retainer arm until the case aligns over the pin. Once I did that, 99% of my priming issues were gone. Of course, making sure that the press is mounted rock solid so there is no movement to disturb the primer while it's sitting on the primer pin is a given.

The offset you speak of can be seen here. For 9mm on my press I have a sizing die in station 2 and it does center over the primer push pin. The offset is because of a dual purpose shell plate. This shell plate, 19S takes 9mm Luger, 357 Sig and 40S&W.

 

[jmorris]

The die I added to #2 was an extra powder through expander I had sitting in a drawer (don't use them on my Dillon's) and it worked fine for aligning the case.

 

[Load Master]

The die I added to #2 was an extra powder through expander I had sitting in a drawer (don't use them on my Dillon's) and it worked fine for aligning the case.

Your hybrid Lee Load Master has to be one of the coolest in existence! Thanks for sharing your photo.

 

[wally]

I came up with a cold over the Holiday and didn't get as far as I wanted, but I did load 100 rounds without any primer screw-ups after I switched in the Gen3 small pistol primer system. Never got that many in a row before, so there is hope. The case feeder was also screwed up, I'd ordered a replacement crank slider but I didn't feel like futzing with it unless the priming system was working, so I just fed the cases in by hand. If I get through another couple of hundred without issues I'll install the new crank slider, but manually feeding the cases isn't that much of a slow down considering you have to stop and rotate the feeder tubes periodically, and then refill them manually anyways.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Also the #19 shell plate has too much slop...not the best for 9mm. get a 6s. the 19s is also for 40 cal. too much slop for me.

Biggest issue I have is with crimped primer pockets in 9mm. They will have you blaming the press and in the 9mm world they are everywhere and get mixed in often. Cull them fast and watch the problems diminish.

I finished 1,000 rounds the other day and only had 3 mis-primes. 2 were where I ran out of primers (duh) and one was a crimped primer pocket.

FWIW my 10mm.... I've never had an issue (knock on wood).

 

[wally]

Crimped primer pockets are a hassle, as are small primer .45ACP cases, but I'm only using my Loadmaster for .40S&W which as far as I know has never used crimped primers.

 

[Load Master]

[/QUOTE]

Also the #19 shell plate has too much slop...not the best for 9mm. get a 6s. the 19s is also for 40 cal. too much slop for me.

I'm interested in the 6S shell plate and using with 9mm. Are the 9mm tight or do they fit loose enough for use? I'm seriously considering putting an order in. Amazon and Midway are out of stock. It looks like Titan may have them.

 

[mdemetz]

Have you seen Mike's mod video?