Legal carry in Illinois

[Glockfan.45]

OK so I work in a field that requires me to drive my vehicle through some bad parts of town late at night (between 1:00 a.m and 4:30 p.m). In the last month there have been 6 armed robberies two included people getting shot (crack heads are a problem) . After beating my fist against the post over Illinois absurd gun laws I feel I may have found a loop hole. Illinois law states firearms must be transported unloaded in a case. Ammo may be stored in the case with the firearm. So I was thinking the center console in my trucks arm rest is a case right? What if I were to store an unloaded pistol next to a loaded mag in my arm rest? Any thoughts on this. I know we have some people in L.E from Illinois here I would love to get your input.

 

[Jeff White]

Don't do it

The center console in your vehicle is not a case. Put your weapon and ammunition in there, get caught with it and face felony UUW charges. It's that simple.

Put the pistol and ammunition in a pistol rug, put that in the center console and you will be legal under the letter of the law. However there is a lot of confusion in the LE community over this. So that's not a guarantee you won't be arrested and charged with UUW.

Do a search here on Illinois fanny pack carry. You'll find a lot of posts on the issue.

Jeff

 

[danny]

The law says a case that was made for a firearm, or something like that. There's an organization here in Illinois advocating concealed carry of an unloaded semiauto in a fanny pack or similar. Technically they're right but I hope you have large financial resources as most of our States Attorneys have vowed to drag anyone through the courts that they catch doing this. You may eventually win but they'll make sure it costs you dearly. Plus our judges don't always follow the letter of the law.
Here's a link to their site http://www.concealcarry.org/

 

[Glockfan.45]

Thanks Jeff I was hoping to get your responce. How about unloaded in a factory snap case with a loaded mag on the passanger floorboard? God I cant wait to leave this state. It sucks all these shootings occured on my route. Three of the stores robbed are my stops. One clerk I chat with regularly is laying in a hospital bed now. So I am getting desperate looking for a solution as my line of work makes me a tempting target.

 

[Autolycus]

It sucks so much here.

Please join www.icarry.org

We are trying to get something done about the fact that we have no CCW here in IL.

 

[Soybomb]

hey jeff or isp, are either of you two aware of someone being arrested or charged for using a zipped container that isn't specifically meant for a gun? Right off hand I'm thinking that perhaps that requirement is in the wildlife code? Is tossing a holstered unloaded handgun in a zippered pocket of a backpack, or an unloaded folded keltec sub2000 in a laptop case potentially going to be trouble?

 

[Greg Dunn]

If you aren't carrying tin you might as well forget this idea.

Illinois is probably the worst about their laws pertaining to handguns. I couldn't wait to move out of Cook County and the state.

I pondered how to CC in IL and found the same loophole but was too afraid of getting jammed up to try it.

If you can pull it off more power to you.

 

[Autolycus]

I do agree with Gregg Dunn. It really is risky to do in IL. Do a search on Kranish. And look at a poster named SAK.

He carried using the fannypack method (well he modified a holster) and was arrested by the campus police at his community college. He was not armed when he did it.

I believe he was armed with an empty pistol and a magazine in his pocket when he was arrested at the mall. He is trying to fight for our rights but not many support him because his methods are extreme. However he is willing to go the distance which many, myself included, are not.

 

[scout26]

Another good web site that explains/clarifies "fanny pack carry", in Illinois:

http://www.gunssavelife.com/GSLife/POV/sixseconds.htm

The case has to "Made for the purpose of carrying a firearm." So technically if you buy some cloth at a sewing shop, sew into a bag/pouch/case so that you can tie, zip, buckle, snap, and/or etc so that it completely encloses the firearm, you're good to go.

A fanny pack designed for the purpose is even better.

Carry a copy of the relevant codes UUW and the Wildlife code with you, some/most cops do not know the law and will arrest/detain you for having ammo in the same container as the firearm. Some will even tell you that the firearm and ammo have to be in seperate, locked containers and/or that the ammo cannot be a magazine. Not true, the only requirement is that the ammo cannot be in the firearm.

 

[Len S]

If you get caught in Chicago they will toss you in County jail, (Can you sing moon river?) Then maybe you can try to porove your innocence. I would not try it in Chicago. Gangbangers and city council types carry all the time. Even if they had a ccw law in Il i would stay out of Chicago. I would not put it past the powers that be to ignore any law they do not agree with.


Len

 

[scout26]

Len,

Chicago is were you need it most. Just don't get caught. (or do anything that draws the attention of the cops), and you're good to go. If I should ever have to use it, in addition to copies of the the relevant UUW and Wildlife codes, I also have the business card of a good lawyer with whom I've discussed this issue.

 

[distra]

I have a four letter word for you, M-O-V-E. I know it is not always possible, but if you get caught carrying illegally, you will pay dearly. I travel to IL a couple times a year to visit family and avoid Chi-town like the plague. My advice is keep it unloaded in case in the rear of the vehicle. Not tactically useful though.

 

[Manedwolf]

Keep in mind that it's also likely that even if you're following the letter of the law, it's quite possible you could end up kissing asphalt or shot by an overly twitchy cop in that area, if stopped and anything is spotted. At best, I'd expect you'd be arrested and your gun confiscated and car impounded, regardless of what the law actually is.

 

[ilbob]

Keep in mind that it's also likely that even if you're following the letter of the law, it's quite possible you could end up kissing asphalt or shot by an overly twitchy cop in that area, if stopped and anything is spotted. At best, I'd expect you'd be arrested and your gun confiscated and car impounded, regardless of what the law actually is.

I think it depends a lot on where you get stopped. There are still areas of Illinois that have decent, honest cops, that are inclined to accept the idea that something that is specifically allowed by law is not illegal.

Keep in mind most cops don't know what the actual wording of the law is, and don't really care either. They get brownie points for certain types of arrests (guns and drugs are the biggies) and if their supervisors are pushing them to make those type of arrests, they will make them. Look at it this way. You are a cop. You get the same brownie points for arresting a guy with an unloaded, encased gun in the possession of a law abiding citizen who would never even consider harming a cop, as for the arrest of a violent felon carrying a loaded gun who hates cops and wants to back shoot one to improve his street rep. Which kind of arrests are you going to focus on?

It is the same reason cops don't object to speed traps and ID check points. It is relatively safe easy work, and they get positive reinforcement for doing it, and negative reinforcement if they don't.

 

[GoRon]

Most LEOs in the Chicagoland area would assume you were up to no good if they caught you with a loaded firearm on your person.

 

[ilbob]

Most LEOs in the Chicagoland area would assume you were up to no good if they caught you with a loaded firearm on your person.

Generally if you have a loaded gun on your person anywhere in Illinois (with a few exceptions) you are not legal, so you are a legit target for enforcement action.

Most citizens in Chicago are prohibited from even owning handguns so it is a legit enforcement tactic for LE to assume anyone in Chicago with a handgun is committing a crime.

 

[bclark1]

There's a lot of arguments for how you can and can't, but it boils down to the simple fact that the laws are strange and the enforcers confused. People like the founder of iCarry have been arrested for so much as carrying an empty holster. I've known people who carry illegally and gotten away with it for years - a friend's aunt is the picture-perfect argument for right-to-carry, her social work job takes her bad places and she refuses to be a victim - but the law doesn't matter in Illinois. You're going to be a case study if you get caught even close to the grey area. Good luck...

 

[Don Gwinn]

Well, yeah, there's a lot of controversy back and forth, but I've never heard a convincing argument that an automobile's console qualifies, even under the fairly loose wording of the UUW statute.

For the record, the Wildlife Code requires a case made specifically to hold a gun.

The Unlawful Use of Weapons Code allows a case, box, shipping box, or "other container." Other container would seem to give you a lot of latitude, but gloveboxes and consoles don't cut it.

 

[isp2605]

So I was thinking the center console in my trucks arm rest is a case right?

You really need to read the law before you start thinking about a way to get around the law:
"(520 ILCS 5/1.2b‑1) (from Ch. 61, par. 1.2b‑1)
Sec. 1.2b‑1. Case. Case means a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow and arrow device which completely encloses such gun or bow and arrow device by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no portion of the gun or bow and arrow device exposed."

are either of you two aware of someone being arrested or charged for using a zipped container that isn't specifically meant for a gun?

Years ago my brother got a ticket from a CPO for uncased gun. He was into the blackpowder with all the original finishings. He had built a rifle case patterned after an original mountain man design with the fringe and beads. It tied with leather. The CPO cited him claiming it was not a factory built case specifically for a rifle. I know the CPO pretty well. I think he'd been on about a year at the time. Judge tossed the ticket. I know the CPO was given a quick refresher in the law by the Sgt.

Is tossing a holstered unloaded handgun in a zippered pocket of a backpack, or an unloaded folded keltec sub2000 in a laptop case potentially going to be trouble?

A holster is not a case. As far as the backpack or laptop case, follow the definition above.

 

[Jeff White]

Strategies and Tactics Moderator hat on:
How much protection do you think carrying an unloaded handgun in a case with a loaded magazine next to it really will give you?

Think about this for a minute. How many self defense situations might you find yourself in where you woud reasonably have time to unzip a pistol rug, insert a magazine, chamber a round and bring the weapon to bear on your assailant?

I think if you have that much time, you have enough warning to avoid the encounter in the first place. Given the way the law is written, any attempt to skirt it is not going to leave you a tactically sound legal option involving a firearm. If you're really concerned about legally protecting yourself in Illinois, you need to look at other options like OC and the Nike defense.

Back to Legal and Political Comments:

If you want to carry an unloaded hangun in a fanny pack to make a political statement, that is certainly your right. You are taking a chance of arrest for doing it. The law is unclear. The attorney generals office refuses to issue an interpretation. You are depending on a couple lower court rulings that are only valid in those individual circuits as your defense. Even if you are aquitted or the charges eventually dismissed, you will have a permanent criminal history file that will read:

1 charge 0 convictions Unlawful use of weapons

This will follow you for the rest of your life and will undoubtedly cause NICS delays when purchasing firearms, could cause you to have to make explanations to prospective future employers and other ramifications having a positive criminal history can cause.

What's it going to take to get the people of Illinois interested in CCW? What did it take in Texas? I think the Lubys Cafeteria shooting and Suzanna Hupp testifying how she could have possibly saved her parents had she not left her gun in the car to remain within the law is what put CCW over the top in Texas. I really think that only an incident of that magnitude, properly handled in the press and before the legislature is going to get the General Assembly off dead center on CCW. They don't care that we are one of the last two states without any form of legal carry for civilians.

I don't for one minute want to see something like the Lubys shootings happen again in Illinois or anywhere else. But I do think that it will take something of that magnitude to move the debate to our side. It's very sad, but unfortunately I believe it's true.

Jeff

 

[DKSuddeth]

I would have thought that the browns chicken murders would have jerked at least some peoples minds up there, but even that didn't phase them enough. With the way that most people in cook county are, I think if a lubys type episode happened, you'd see people screaming to ban all guns like england and australia.....not the other way around like texas did.

 

[ilbob]

The thing to remember is this - regardless of what the law actually says, in many areas of Illinois the police will just arrest you regardless. They do not care what the law actually says. They will bust you and let the judge sort it out tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees later and it will take months or years to clear up.

The state has an infinite amount of money to spend on lawyers. You do not.

And regardless of the outcome legally, the cop that busted you will get brownie points for "taking guns off the street".

 

[ilbob]

There's a lot of arguments for how you can and can't, but it boils down to the simple fact that the laws are strange and the enforcers confused. People like the founder of iCarry have been arrested for so much as carrying an empty holster.

I would suggest that he was not arrested so much for having an empty holster as for having the spunk to question the powers that be at the college. Most bureaucrats do not want to be challenged and those that have tame LEOs to do their bidding are especially dangerous to cross.

These are the same LE people that suppressed a whole series of violent crimes on campus a few years back to make the administration look better. It eventually came out what they were doing, but no punishment was ever meted out to them.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Wasn't he also arrested for carrying unloaded in an enclosed case at the mall? What was the outcome of that?

 

[DKSuddeth]

thats still awaiting trial, malum