Let's Make a Deal-NFA and UBC's

[JSH1]

Like I said, how many time do you want to go round and round? We've had this same discussion in other threads and I have listed reasons in another post in this thread.

 

[JSH1]

True, but there is a significant difference between the Supreme Court affirming a law by decision and allowing it to stand.

Matt

At the end of the day it doesn't make a bit of difference to the folks in Highland Park.

 

[Warp]

Like I said, how many time do you want to go round and round? We've had this same discussion in other threads and I have listed reasons in another post in this thread.

I don't remember being in any of those discussion and am unaware. Enlighten me please (and every other person reading or who will read this thread who also doesn't know what you are referring to)

 

[USAF_Vet]

Are we going to go round and round the apple cart again? The same reasons we do background checks for guns sold by FFLs and retain the records.

FFL's retain the records for political expediency. Guns were bought and sold by the tens of millions without a single solitary background check for decades prior to the law implementing FFL's and the NICS.

Not all of those records are even being retained. Some of the first 4473's have been ashes for years now. Records from 93-96 can be destroyed at will by FFL's as they please. Not to mention the lack of records of firearms sales between 1776-1993. So why the big need and requirement to track every sale and purchase of every gun by every law abiding citizen?

 

[JSH1]

I don't remember being in any of those discussion and am unaware. Enlighten me please (and every other person reading or who will read this thread who also doesn't know what you are referring to)

Preventing the sale of a firearm to a prohibited person.
Making it easier to trace the history of a gun found a a crime scene.
Making it much easier to see and prosecute straw purchasers.

 

[Warp]

Preventing the sale of a firearm to a prohibited person.
Making it easier to trace the history of a gun found a a crime scene.
Making it much easier to see and prosecute straw purchasers.

Easier to trace the history of a gun...sounds like a different way of saying "attempt to effectively register guns".

 

[1911 guy]

No. The only way to ensure all firearms are transferred with a background check is to register each firearm, then follow it from owner to owner, at each transfer making sure the background check is done.

Let's say you want to sell the old shotgun your third cousin twice removed gave you in payment for a case of motor oil twenty years ago. Selling it requires (under the proposal of the OP) a background check on the new buyer. That shotgun is now "in the system".

What's the harm in doing a background check? It will require keeping Form 4473 on file to ensure any firearm recovered or inspected is the property of someone who passed a background check. Have you looked at lines 26 through 30 of a 4473? 26) Manufacturer. 27) Model. 28) Serial Number. 29) Type. 30) Caliber or gauge.

 

[JSH1]

Easier to trace the history of a gun...sounds like a different way of saying "attempt to effectively register guns".

If background checks were required for every sale and those records were kept indefinitely, in a 100 years or so we would have a registry.

However, as I have said many times, I don't fear a registry. A registry is only useful to confiscate guns after they have been banned. If we get to that point the battle has already been lost. The key is preventing the ban not planning to keeped banned guns after.

 

[USAF_Vet]

If background checks were required for every sale and those records were kept indefinitely, in a 100 years or so we would have a registry.

However, as I have said many times, I don't fear a registry. A registry is only useful to confiscate guns after they have been banned. If we get to that point the battle has already been lost. The key is preventing the ban not planning to keeped banned guns after.

And by giving up inch after incremental inch, like UBC's, FOID's, record keeping and other such nonsense, we inch ourselves closer to an eventual ban. Why do you feel the government has need to know where each and every gun is and who has it? Why do they need to know unless they have something to fear by having a lawfully armed populace?

California's laws are a prime example of what is to come if we keep "compromising" away our rights. Every inch we give up emboldens those who we all know are driving the bus toward eventual confiscation. Most of us are trying to stop the bus dead in it's tracks, while others are perfectly willing to lie down in front of it, and actively encourage others to do the same. And yet others are perfectly willing to throw their peers in front of and under that bus, but the confidence that they themselves will be safe.

No thank you.

And why stop with just guns? Murder is still just as illegal when other implements are used. But no one goes after them? It's not a public safety issue, otherwise helmet laws would be mandatory, fences around public pools would be more heavily regulated, hell, fences around any open body of water, not just pools. Guns are easier to go after because no one is going to fight tyranny with a Spongebob Squarepants backyard inflatable wading pool.

 

[M-Cameron]

If background checks were required for every sale and those records were kept indefinitely, in a 100 years or so we would have a registry.

However, as I have said many times, I don't fear a registry. A registry is only useful to confiscate guns after they have been banned. If we get to that point the battle has already been lost. The key is preventing the ban not planning to keeped banned guns after.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

hrmm....kind of hard to do that when the Govt keeps a list of all the gun owners and where they keep their weapons.....

if you want the govt to know where your guns are, so you can turn turtle and hand them all in, by all mean, knock yourself out..........but leave mine alone!

 

[Officers'Wife]

No offense but the people have been making deals with the government on firearms since the 30's and all that's been accomplished is more and more onerous restrictions that have negated the role of both the militia and the 2nd amendment. Perhaps the time has come to change tactics and stand up to the bullies in power and just say no!

 

[Lord Teapot]

ubc=registration=confiscation.

nfa is illegal, as it infringes rkba. inb4 a lawyer, i know, you're right, so were the British in 1775, doesn't change the result.

 

[JFtheGR8]

You can have an SBR in IL.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/ptfire.pdf

Sec 24-1 (a) (7) (ii) but maybe there's another section I'm not aware of that addresses SBRs.

 

[Midwest]

FFL's retain the records for political expediency. Guns were bought and sold by the tens of millions without a single solitary background check for decades prior to the law implementing FFL's and the NICS.

Not all of those records are even being retained. Some of the first 4473's have been ashes for years now. Records from 93-96 can be destroyed at will by FFL's as they please. Not to mention the lack of records of firearms sales between 1776-1993. So why the big need and requirement to track every sale and purchase of every gun by every law abiding citizen?

Excellent Points and the reason why they want it now is to eventually register and then disarm us through confiscation.

No they won't go door to door, they will use the IRS forfeiture laws to achieve this, in my opinion.


I have read the anti's proposals since the 90's, it is gradualism with their ultimate goal of is disarming us.

UBC's and permanent records makes it easier to implement their goals. And they will use "big 'private' money" to achieve this with Bloomberg and Company leading the way going state by state as they are doing now.
.

 

[evan price]

How about repeal of the 1934 NFA, the 1968 GCA, and all the rest of the infringements.

I voted "NO" and as for why, my answer is "Because <deleted>, that's why."

 

[Deanimator]

If background checks were required for every sale and those records were kept indefinitely, in a 100 years or so we would have a registry.

However, as I have said many times, I don't fear a registry. A registry is only useful to confiscate guns after they have been banned. If we get to that point the battle has already been lost. The key is preventing the ban not planning to keeped banned guns after.

Don't "fear" it?

You WANT it, and for the obvious reason.

 

[Deanimator]

Preventing the sale of a firearm to a prohibited person.
Making it easier to trace the history of a gun found a a crime scene.
Making it much easier to see and prosecute straw purchasers.

To facilitate future confiscation.

 

[Deanimator]

If background checks were required for every sale and those records were kept indefinitely, in a 100 years or so we would have a registry.

However, as I have said many times, I don't fear a registry. A registry is only useful to confiscate guns after they have been banned. If we get to that point the battle has already been lost. The key is preventing the ban not planning to keeped banned guns after.

Oh yeah, I forgot:

What do you do when Obama issues an executive order to just stop TAKING "UBCs"/REGISTRATION?

Can you name a place where something similar happened?

Some of us have actually BEEN there aren't aren't buying the con...

 

[Robert]

We have gone round and round and round over the topic of compromises in numerous other threads. And now we are going around in circles yet again. Time to call this one done.