License need to exercise fundamental Right

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Topgunner

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On October 10 2008, my wife and I were leaving Manchester, NH to return home. We were pulled over by the Manchester police.

We were asked for license, registration, etc, and after the officer was not satisfied with our answers, without even calling it in, he asked me to step out of our truck, whereupon he immediately pushed me up against the truck and searched me.

He confiscated my sidearms and ammunition and arrested both of us. My wife has a concealed carry license, but they confiscated her sidearm and ammunition as well. They also confiscated our camera.

The claim for the initial stop was "a loud muffler." When the truck was started up and driven onto a trailer at the impound lot, we asked the lot manager if he could tell what the problem was. He didn't think there was any problem with the truck, and when we told him that the police claimed that the muffler was too loud, he asked if we were kidding and pointed out that many of the commercial trucks with perfectly good mufflers were much louder than our pickup.
We put the truck on a trailer because they confiscated our license plates.


We are going to court to challenge the police, and are asking for any support or assistance that the gun community can offer.

To me, the Second Amendment protects a pre-existing God-given Right to protect myself and my family. It is not a privilege subject to "reasonable restrictions" that vary from State to State at the whim of legislators or varying legislatures.

The second Amendment was supposed to be a "reasonable restriction" _on the government_, not on the citizens that governments inevitably tyrannize.

How is the claim that a gun owner needs a license any different from the attitudes of, "if you want to own a gun, then you should become a cop, or join the military?" I shouldn't need a badge to carry a gun, and no one should need a license either - you don't need a license to vote, do you?

What is next? Permits to carry concealed books? Licenses to publish? Book registration?

I own a restaurant, and the government requires me to have a "license to operate a place of assembly." I thought the Right of the People to peaceably assemble was protected by the First Amendment. Maybe that's just another one of those "reasonable restrictions" the State imposes through its "general Police Power."

If you believe in Rights, Freedom, America, and all those things the Founders created this country for to begin with - those Rights all those colonists died to secure, and our current troops are supposedly dying to protect, then we ask you to do what you can to help us take the next step forward in protecting our Rights, your Rights, and your children's Rights.

Otherwise, they will be gone.

If you can post this account to a different forum, blog, or webspace, write an article about the Right to bear arms whether concealed or not, or maybe even just give 5 bucks to help us fight this in court (williamwalker.chipin.com) then we would greatly appreciate it.
Links to [sensationalized] news stories and video are available on the ChipIn page.

Thank you,

Bill and Ivy Walker
 
I don't understand manchester law. I'm from NH and our carry laws are pretty good. I have heard of other cases in Manchester similar to yours. will you get your arms back?
i might just get involved in this.
 
I'm confused. Were you CCW'ing without a license?
Or did they just arrest you for having guns in the car? Were they transported like they're supposed to be?:confused:
 
William Walker, 39, of 11 Neils Lane, Grafton, was driving a Mazda pickup truck when he was pulled over at Belmont and Bridge streets for a defective exhaust, according to Capt. Richard Valenti.

Walker allegedly was wearing a bullet resistent vest under his clothing and had the loaded guns, along with numerous fully loaded magazines, concealed in his waistband.

Valenti said the police report does not indicate why Walker was so heavily armed and wearing the protective vest.

Walker is charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a permit. Police also cited him for operating a motor vehicle after license suspension and misuse of plates.

His passenger, Sharon Ankrom, 31, of the same address, was arrested for disorderly conduct. She was also cited for operating a motor vehicle with a suspended registration as the owner of the pickup truck.

Just for those of us who aren't intimately aware of the situation. You were charged with carrying a concealed weapon because you were carrying a concealed weapon and you didn't have a concealed carry permit. Is that correct?

I am not arguing with you, I am just trying to understand the facts of the situation.

Mike
 
Idunno, I'm all for "Butt the **** outta my business copper !" but wearing a vest and packin' enuff heat to burn down some serious sh*t sounds a bit like you were caught on your way to rob a bank or something..............but that's just me, maybe it ain't so bad as it sounds............:scrutiny:
 
OK, let's add this all up. Let's see. 1. Misuse of plates. They yanked him out of the truck when he showed the registration for the vehicle without calling it in. 2 + 2 means the plates did not match the registration and/or they ran the plates before they even got out of their cruiser and knew they were expired.

Suspended driver's licenses....

Bullet proof vest?!?

I'm sorry, this Pro 2A RTKBA everyone should open carry Navy Officer sworn to uphold the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic smells a stinky rat here. I'm sorry, whatever you were up to, I hope they figure it out and put you away for it.

And why is it the OP didn't mention the suspended licenses and bad plates?
 
To me, the Second Amendment protects a pre-existing God-given Right to protect myself and my family. It is not a privilege subject to "reasonable restrictions" that vary from State to State at the whim of legislators or varying legislatures.

I believe this as well. HOWEVER, I also recognize that this is not how the government system sees and enforces the law.

We were asked for license, registration, etc, and after the officer was not satisfied with our answers, without even calling it in, he asked me to step out of our truck, whereupon he immediately pushed me up against the truck and searched me.

He wasn't satisfied with your answers because you didn't have a license and registration. He probably already knew your tags were bogus before he pulled you over.

As RPCVYemen hinted, you didn't exactly tell us the whole story...

http://www.wmur.com/cnn-news/17685307/detail.html

Loaded Guns, Body Armor Found During Traffic Stop

Police Say Man Concealed Weapons Without Permit

POSTED: 7:48 am EDT October 10, 2008
UPDATED: 12:15 pm EDT October 10, 2008

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- A man stopped by police Thursday night for a defective exhaust was wearing body armor and had two fully loaded concealed guns in his waistband, police said.

Police said William Walker, 39, of Grafton, N.H., was charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, as well as driving with suspended license and misuse of plates.

The officer who pulled over Walker's pickup truck became suspicious when he noticed Walker's passenger trying to stick something underneath her seat, police said.

"Upon approaching the vehicle, he learned that the driver was wearing body armor, as well as carrying concealed weapons and concealed ammunition underneath his clothing," Officer Paul Rondeau said.

Police said Walker had two pistols and ammunition concealed inside his waistband. He was taken into custody.

"He didn't have a permit to conceal either the weapon or the ammunition," Rondeau said.

The passenger in the truck, Sharon Ankrom, was also arrested. Police said she initially gave them a false name and also tucked a pistol under her seat. She is licensed to carry the pistol.

Ankrom has been charged with disorderly conduct and operating with a suspended registration because she owns the pickup truck.

Police said they not sure why the two had the weapons or why Walker was wearing body armor.

"We don't have any information that leads us to believe he was en route to commit a crime," Rondeau said. "We're not sure, and that part is still under investigation."

Both were released on bail and are due back in court for arraignment later this month.
 
This is Bill's (Topgunner) wife Ivy.

Thanks to those who understand that activism sometimes includes civil disobedience through not submitting to their unConstitutional "laws" or regulations. The Right to Travel is right up there with the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, in my book. When they require you to register all your guns (for later confiscation) are you going to obey that law?

My case is separate from his. They clearly violated my rights, as they have seized and still remain in possession of my sidearm and ammunition even though I have the conceal carry license they require. I jumped through their hoops and they still seized it all. They are requiring I jump through all kinds of legal hoops to get it back, when it was wrongfully seized in the first place.

It was well after we were out of the car when they got the call saying my registration was suspended (a fact even I didn't know), so it was not a matter of them running plates prior to a stop which got us pulled over. They had no earthly idea, and therefore no valid reason for stopping us.

They told the media I was charged with things I was never charged with. (By the way, I certainly hope people don't believe everything they see on TV or read in the paper... )

They need to be stopped, and we both hope Bill's case is the one to change things for the better here in New Hampshire. While New Hampshire does have some of the "best" gun laws out there - is there really a "best" when all laws are in violation of the Constitution? And when the police (at least the Manchester Police) constantly violate those "best" laws anyway?

And, just one more thing - isn't there already a discussion about "Everyday body armor" here? Why is it assumed we were about to execute some crime the police need to find out about simply because Bill was wearing a protective vest when others here are interested in everyday protective gear as well? Bill wears his vest regularly, and even posted so in that thread I linked above... it wasn't strange then, why is it suddenly strange now? If one is going to spend that much money on a vest, wouldn't it be prudent to, well, wear it?
 
Before you throw around stuff like the Founders and gun registration, maybe you can tell us why they confiscated your license plates.

This doesn't pass the sniff test, and while I don't believe whatever I read in the papers, I also don't buy that I'm getting the whole story here.

Please explain.

Please don't obscure what ought to be a VERY simple explanation with random references to Thomas Paine or Thomas Jefferson. I think we all know about our history and our rights here. What we don't know, first of all, is why your license plates were confiscated.

I, for one, would like to know.

WRT the body armor, I don't care if you were wearing it. No problem here. And the cops said they didn't figure you were on the way to commit a crime or anything. They just said, "Hmm, that's unusual." But let's forget about the body armor, too, for the moment: it has nothing to do with your license plates.
 
My apologies, but I'm pretty sure I already answered that here:
It was well after we were out of the car when they got the call saying my registration was suspended (a fact even I didn't know),
Further explanation: They are claiming the registration is suspended and therefore took the plates. Ironically, they are RI plates, so they have no jurisdiction to take those plates, and I've never even heard of a registration being suspended. Certainly something the lawyer is looking into - for now I am under the impression it is yet another lie the police have conjured up. I've never received any notice of suspension for the registration of the vehicle, nor do I think such a thing exists. I could be wrong, and that is why there are lawyers which are hired.

In my opinion there are two separate battles here, neither of which have to do with the other. One is the battle over the Right to Travel, and one is the battle over the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. This one incident happens to include both battles, and happens to include two activists.

I apologize if it seems we are 'hiding' information or if folks feel like they're not getting the "whole story". You're not. It's hard to discern what we "can" and "can't" say, if that makes any sense. We're trying to stick to information that is already out there because as you know "anything (we) say may be used against (us) in a court of law".

I do know this: we have a valid case and we can win, and we might even, with our case, be able to change laws here in New Hampshire for the better. For those that might be interested in helping, again, we have a ChipIn page set up at http://williamwalker.chipin.com - any little bit helps and anything would be greatly appreciated.
 
Police also cited him for operating a motor vehicle after license suspension and misuse of plates.

...

His passenger, Sharon Ankrom, 31, of the same address, was arrested for disorderly conduct. She was also cited for operating a motor vehicle with a suspended registration as the owner of the pickup truck.

...

Ankrom was in Manchester District Court on Sept. 29 for failing to appear previously on a 2007 charge of failing to have her motor vehicle inspected and a 2008 charge of operating a motor vehicle after license suspension. At that hearing, Ankrom contended the judge had no constitutional right to fine her or assess her fees for not appearing at the original court dates.

So your argument is not only that you don't need a CCW license, but you also don't need a license or registration for a motor vehicle?

Were the license plates on the truck perhaps from another vehicle?

Mike
 
I have a conceal carry license. They stole my gun and ammo anyway.

No the plates were not from another vehicle.
 
They told the media I was charged with things I was never charged with.

Oddly enough, the Rhode Island State Police seem to agree with the media - on their official web site. Are they in on the conspiracy?

On December 20, 2005 at 2:45am, Troopers arrested Sharon Ankrom, age 28 of 366 Davisville Road, North Kingstown on a 3rd District Court Capias for Failure to Appear/Ability to Pay on an original charge of Operating on a Suspended License. This arrest was the result of a motor vehicle stop on Route 95 north in West Greenwich. Subject transported to Women's Intake Center.

http://www.ri.gov/press/view.php?id=1040

Mike
 
They told the media I was charged with things I was never charged with.
was in reference to
Ankrom has been charged with disorderly conduct
Also, the incident we are posting about here did not happen in RI, it happened October 10 in Manchester NH. I can't imagine how anyone would conjure up some conspiracy theory based on a stop that happened three years ago. Each case should be decided on its own merits. Any prior incidents have no bearing to this case. So I couldn't afford to pay a ticket three years ago... so? That means the police have the right to violate my rights now? No. It doesn't.
 
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Have you read this?

http://www.javelinpress.com/you_and_the_police.html

I know that I'm talking about shutting the barn door after the horse has already escaped, but Boston's advice might prevent the snowball of offenses you are accumulating from getting any bigger. They're minor offenses, but that can change when there are enough of them and they've been left unresolved for too long.

I'm sorry to hear about your plight.
 
It doesn't matter how you guys feel about Bill (reportedly) wearing kevlar or (reportedly) carrying illegally.

What REALLY MATTERS is that he was (reportedly) searched illegally. If you were illegally searched and guns were found, those guns (legally speaking) do not exist.
 
Anyone ever hear about the Freemen here in Montana? This is beginning to sound a lot like there life styles.
 
If you were illegally searched and guns were found, those guns (legally speaking) do not exist.

That may be true -- in court.

Unfortunately, this may well fall under Terry v. Ohio. See the book I linked to above, and for the impatient, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

It's really important to know exactly what you're doing if you're going to be what Claire Wolfe refers to as a "Freedom Outlaw." I mean, it's best to know exactly what you're doing before an encounter with the police.
 
I'm sure not going to try to figure out what happened based on what's posted here and what's in the press. But this is one muddled deal, and it's at least even money in my book that the State of New Hampshire here has a righteous beef.
 
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