Lightweight Rifle Bolt-Action

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back40 said:
i don't follow. i asked what you were using the rifle for, and if your 9lb figure included the scope or not.

in all the research i did prior to buying mine, not once did i read of someone stating the bbl heated up and affected accuracy.
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Sorry, I was only answering the part about how much it would weigh w/ the scope. I'll look to see if I can find where it talked about the barrel affecting accuracy. The reason why I'm getting is it in my first post.

Update: I can't find the link again, and I'll retract my statement until I do find it again.
 
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"I'm not going to be able to use stripper clips because even though it is a scout rifle, I'd like to put a conventional scope"


If you put a conventional scope on it, it's NOT a Scout Rifle. :banghead:

The Scout Rifle is an integrated concept, with many things in balance.

A standard scope takes any rifle out of the Scout Rifle category.


Take this from someone who was involved with Col. Cooper and the early development of the Scout Rifle concept: I have one of the very first Gunsite "manufactured down the road from 'The Sconce' " prototypes (A Remington Model 7 Kevlar with three Pachmeyer flush swivels for a Ching Sling, silver-soldered on forward scope mount with machined in place front emergency sight on the front of the mount, Mini-30 flip up rear sight drilled out to "ghost ring" diameter, and Buehler scout-scope installed on lever-release mounts, in the then popular and *absolutely righteous* .350 Rem Mag "Fireplug") and spent many hours debating the features with the good Colonel himself over adult beverages of choice.

The Ruger is so far removed alread from a "pure" Scout that Cooper would not have recognized it as being fully realized as such. Put a normal scope on it, and it's just another lightweight bolt action rifle. All of the caveats for that category of rifle apply: Intended to be carried a lot and shot rarely.

Enjoy your rifle. Just don't call it a "Scout Rifle", 'cause it's not.


Willie

.
 
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If you're shooting fast enough to worry about the barrel heating up too much with a bolt action 99% of any accuracy degradation is going to be from the shooter and not the rifle.

It's really a non issue
 
Willie Sutton said:
"I'm not going to be able to use stripper clips because even though it is a scout rifle, I'd like to put a conventional scope"


If you put a conventional scope on it, it's NOT a Scout Rifle. :banghead:

The Scout Rifle is an integrated concept, with many things in balance.

A standard scope takes any rifle out of the Scout Rifle category.


Take this from someone who was involved with Col. Cooper and the early development of the Scout Rifle concept: I have one of the very first Gunsite "manufactured down the road from 'The Sconce' " prototypes (A Remington Model 7 Kevlar with three Pachmeyer flush swivels for a Ching Sling, silver-soldered on forward scope mount with machined in place front emergency sight on the front of the mount, Mini-30 flip up rear sight drilled out to "ghost ring" diameter, and Buehler scout-scope installed on lever-release mounts, in the then popular and *absolutely righteous* .350 Rem Mag "Fireplug") and spent many hours debating the features with the good Colonel himself over adult beverages of choice.

The Ruger is so far removed alread from a "pure" Scout that Cooper would not have recognized it as being fully realized as such. Put a normal scope on it, and it's just another lightweight bolt action rifle. All of the caveats for that category of rifle apply: Intended to be carried a lot and shot rarely.

Enjoy your rifle. Just don't call it a "Scout Rifle", 'cause it's not.


Willie

.
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My apologies, I'll stop. FYI I did change the title of the thread.
 
what are you patrolling? shooting at what 200-500yds out? your original post doesn't say much. you may be better off with a completely different rifle in another caliber.
 
back40 said:
what are you patrolling? shooting at what 200-500yds out? your original post doesn't say much. you may be better off with a completely different rifle in another caliber.
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Basically, it's open corn fields and roads. Some hills some flatlands. No real forests or anything. Sorry for the confusion on that. FYI, I did have another thread on here some time ago (I can post link if requested),but in there it was decided that with a .308 I wouldn't be at a loss. Granted, it was talking more along the lines of semi autos, but IMHO it still holds true with bolt actions.
 
A`.308 would be a great "one caliber" choice. Hugely flexible and while it might be a "jack of all trades and a master of none", it's a pretty darned good jack of all trades.

First shot accuracy is always the key...

Any reasonably contoured BBL will shoot well even when hot. Not hot enough to light a match on, but hot after twenty shots. That's a lot for a boltgun.

My guess is that any composite stock, sporting taper barreled rifle from any of the mainline manufacturers would suit your needs. Pick one and enjoy.


(and don't overlook the .30-06 either... there's a reason it's still the king of calibers)


Willie

.
 
Willie Sutton said:
A`.308 would be a great "one caliber" choice. Hugely flexible and while it might be a "jack of all trades and a master of none", it's a pretty darned good jack of all trades.

First shot accuracy is always the key...

Any reasonably contoured BBL will shoot well even when hot. Not hot enough to light a match on, but hot after twenty shots. That's a lot for a boltgun.

My guess is that any composite stock, sporting taper barreled rifle from any of the mainline manufacturers would suit your needs. Pick one and enjoy.


(and don't overlook the .30-06 either... there's a reason it's still the king of calibers)


Willie

.
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The 30-06...eh. I love the round, but put it in a very light gun (tikka t3 lte) and it'll make shooting not a lot of fun.
 
Then just download the 30-06 for a lighter recoiling load, thats the beauty of the 06, it is a hanloader's dream! Pick anything from 110 grain plinkers to 240 grain monster mashers..... the 30-06 can do it all.

Sorry, its my baby cartridge. :)
 
P.B.Walsh said:
Then just download the 30-06 for a lighter recoiling load, thats the beauty of the 06, it is a hanloader's dream! Pick anything from 110 grain plinkers to 240 grain monster mashers..... the 30-06 can do it all.

Sorry, its my baby cartridge. :)
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This.

Load it like you're loading for a Garand and you still pack quite a bit of punch without the monster recoil of factory loads.
 
No, he is meaning to load it down to "Grand" levels. This is because the op-rod on an M1 cannot reliably handle the pressures of hotter loads. Therefore when someone says "load it like a Grand", they mean low to medium pressure, with roughly a 147-155 grain bullet going about 2700-2800 fps.

M2 ball would NOT be suitable for hunting, its an FMJ round. Use a good expanding bullet such as Remington Core-Loks (the 150 grain ones).
 
P.B.Walsh said:
No, he is meaning to load it down to "Grand" levels. This is because the op-rod on an M1 cannot reliably handle the pressures of hotter loads. Therefore when someone says "load it like a Grand", they mean low to medium pressure, with roughly a 147-155 grain bullet going about 2700-2800 fps.

M2 ball would NOT be suitable for hunting, its an FMJ round. Use a good expanding bullet such as Remington Core-Loks (the 150 grain ones).
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Even though M2 Ball is not suitable for hunting, it is at "Grand levels", correct?
 
A Tikka T3 Ultralight with a fluted barrel comes in at 5.8 lbs without a scope. I don't see that accuracy would be an issue. But you won't have iron sights.

An ultralight barrel is going to get hot. Period. The issue is whether or not the point of impact will change as the barrel saturates with heat. I have a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08 with a fiberglass kevlar scope and iron sights that is about 6 lbs without a scope. Before I free floated the barrel, it would not hold a group under 3". After floating the barrel (and some judicious handloading), I got it to go consistently under 0.5" at 100 yards.
 
"Even though M2 Ball is not suitable for hunting, it is at "Grand levels", correct?"


Yes, but for comfort, utility, and plinking, why stop there?

You can load a .30-06 down to .30 Carbine levels, with 110 grain bullets, or load it with 220 grain solids that would do a fairly good job on the odd elephant that you might run into (aim for the third wrinkle on the trunk as he looks at you... the brain is lower than you think...) and everything in between. Load it for .30-30 levels... a 12 year old can shoot it well. Handload and shoot 150 grain bullets at 1800 FPS and you can shoot all day and night and enjoy it. Keep a few coon-killin' 110's and a few heavy loads in your pocket and walk with confidence. That's the beauty of the .30-06

A .308 will do some of it... but not all of it. A .30-06 can do everything a .308 can do and not break a sweat.


Willie

.
 
You can load a .30-06 down to .30 Carbine levels, with 110 grain bullets, or load it with 220 grain solids that would do a fairly good job on the odd elephant that you might run into (aim for the third wrinkle on the trunk as he looks at you... the brain is lower than you think...) and everything in between. Handload for one and shoot 150 grain bullets at 1800 FPS and you can shoot all day and night and enjoy it. Keep a few coon-killin' 110's and a few heavy loads in your pocket and walk with confidence. That's the beauty of the .30-06

A .308 will do some of it... but not all of it. A .30-06 can do everything a .308 can do and not break a sweat.


And... in times of ammunition scarcity... .30-06 is easier to find. Less "tacti-cool-fools" buying it all up...



Willie

.
 
Willie Sutton said:
You can load a .30-06 down to .30 Carbine levels, with 110 grain bullets, or load it with 220 grain solids that would do a fairly good job on the odd elephant that you might run into (aim for the third wrinkle on the trunk as he looks at you... the brain is lower than you think...) and everything in between. Handload for one and shoot 150 grain bullets at 1800 FPS and you can shoot all day and night and enjoy it. Keep a few coon-killin' 110's and a few heavy loads in your pocket and walk with confidence. That's the beauty of the .30-06

A .308 will do some of it... but not all of it. A .30-06 can do everything a .308 can do and not break a sweat.


And... in times of ammunition scarcity... .30-06 is easier to find. Less "tacti-cool-fools" buying it all up...



Willie

.
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Do the 110 grain or 220 grain shoot flat or do they nosedive?
 
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OneWound said:
Do the 110 grain or 220 grain shoot flat or do they nosedive?
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Nosedive?????

Here is a physics lesson.....

Hold a bullet (any bullet) in your left hand. Fire a gun (any gun) with your right hand, perfectly level with the ground, at the exact same time that you drop the bullet in your left hand. Both bullets will hit the ground AT THE SAME TIME. No exceptions. The distance the fired bullet travels is totally dependent on the speed that it travels. No matter HOW FAST it travels, it will hit the ground in the SAME amount of time as the bullet you dropped out of your hand.

Any bullet weight you fire travels an arc based solely on the angle upwards it is shot and the speed by which it travels at.

There is no "nosedive".

Sorry if I bored anyone.
 
bainter1212 said:
Nosedive?????

Here is a physics lesson.....

Hold a bullet (any bullet) in your left hand. Fire a gun (any gun) with your right hand, perfectly level with the ground, at the exact same time that you drop the bullet in your left hand. Both bullets will hit the ground AT THE SAME TIME. No exceptions. The distance the fired bullet travels is totally dependent on the speed that it travels. No matter HOW FAST it travels, it will hit the ground in the SAME amount of time as the bullet you dropped out of your hand.

Any bullet weight you fire travels an arc based solely on the angle upwards it is shot and the speed by which it travels at.

There is no "nosedive".

Sorry if I bored anyone.
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Which one has a better arc, is that's better way to ask the question?
 
It varies with velocity and bullet shape. Higher velocity and/or pointier bullets shoot "flatter" compared to slower and/or less aerodynamic bullets/loads. The term for man aeordynamic bullet is ballistic coeficient. The higher the number, the more streamlined it is. Neither the 110 gr carbine bullet nor the 220 gr round nose are very streamlined compared to many other options.

The thing about "nosedive" is, the more aerodynamic a bullet is, the farther it travels before it begins to trend downward. The pointier it is, the less air drag and less drop for a given range. The time factor isn't as relative to the topic as how far the bullet goes in that time.

If a 30-06 kicks your butt, a 308 wont be much different with similar bullet weights. There just isnt a lot of difference in power levels until you get above 180 gr bullets. A lighter rifle will also have more felt recoil, all else being equal. The 308 can do 200 gr loads alright, the '06 does 220's, though there isnt a lot of need for the heaviest for most uses. Premium grade medium/heavies penetrate about as well as standard grade heavier bullets. Also, be realistic in what you are going to do with it. If you arent shooting moose and grizzlies in thick brush, the abilty to use the heaviest loads isnt that much of an issue.
 
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