Long range tuning

South Prairie Jim said:
Your 16 fps doesn’t seem that unreasonable although I would expect the opposite considering once the case is formed the capacity is slightly increased.
Are these the same lot number brass?
How does the new brass to old brass neck tension compare ?
Click to expand...

that's why i don't think it's case capacity. not just same lots, the exact same brass. when i take a piece of new brass and then load it a second time, it speeds up.

i really want to get one of those fancy presses that measure loading force, as i have no way today to measure neck tension other than measuring the diameter of the brass, but that doesn't account for the annealing/hardness of the brass. it's consistent when it put it through my AMP annealer every other round but different when it's new.
 
btw, those are great groups at 500! but doing load dev or diagnostics at 500 is silly. there's way too much atmosphere to have a reasonable control.
 
taliv said:
btw, those are great groups at 500! but doing load dev or diagnostics at 500 is silly. there's way too much atmosphere to have a reasonable control.
Click to expand...
I do most of my initial work at 500 using flags then finalize the load at 1000 yards. We feel the best way to tune for long range is to tune at’ long range with abbreviated ladders for charge, seating, bullet hold and primers.
 
taliv said:
that's why i don't think it's case capacity. not just same lots, the exact same brass. when i take a piece of new brass and then load it a second time, it speeds up.

i really want to get one of those fancy presses that measure loading force, as i have no way today to measure neck tension other than measuring the diameter of the brass, but that doesn't account for the annealing/hardness of the brass. it's consistent when it put it through my AMP annealer every other round but different when it's new.
Click to expand...
Your thinking maybe a hydro Arbor press from 21st century or a K&M with force pack ? I know several guys that use them with good results, one fella that has the K&M tells me he doesn’t even pay attention and seats by feels others claim they try to record 40-50 inch pounds etc. I use a Harrel’s arbor press Wilson seater and go by feel.
 
I’ve had the 21st century Hyrdoseater for a long time, but I am absolutely listing after the AMP press. I’m moving to a new company right now, so holding water, but wanting to get an order in for it this spring. Maybe not for my PRS ammo, but certainly for my ELR ammo.

The biggest difference for me between the two is the controlled cycle speed. I try to count to three while seating on the Hydropress to be sure my stroke speed isn’t influencing the measured max seating force, but it’s not really consistent, as my hands aren’t perfect. I can press quickly vs. slowly on purpose and see a significant difference in max seating pressure during the stroke, which nullifies the value of the process step. It’s close, but the AMP press is there.
 
All great info guys and thanks for all your input,to me every step is part of the tuning puzzle, I’m building a fresh battle cry for the upcoming year and my chronograph will play an increasing role sorting out my brass. I may take more preloaded ammo to compare with range adjusted ammo loaded in a motel room and spend more time behind the scope.
 
Since I don’t shoot matches currently I don’t need high volume. I’ve started to focus again on more precision at distance. So the amp wouldn’t really slow me down from a reloading perspective. I used to hate reloading for matches. Ugh. On the positive side I didn’t even burn out a single barrel last year.
 
Neck tension isn’t a knob I turn for tuning a load. I just want it to be the same round to round so I use sizing dies honed to my chamber dimensions and anneal after every firing.

Maybe I’m leaving some precision on the table by not fiddling with it but a fella has to draw the line somewhere.
 
I’m not exactly sure when all the hydro presses started hitting the market but before then a basic arbor press was good enough to set world records, I have tested bushings first also last and really see the differences at longer range, my groups settle down and I’m able to collect better data.
 
Nature Boy said:
Neck tension isn’t a knob I turn for tuning a load. I just want it to be the same round to round so I use sizing dies honed to my chamber dimensions and anneal after every firing.

Maybe I’m leaving some precision on the table by not fiddling with it but a fella has to draw the line somewhere.
Click to expand...
I find neck tension affects ES/SD & FPS numbers more than raw accuracy. But of course that affects vertical consistency long range.
 
D6B4EBD8-9487-42C6-96CD-42AF7F93A8CA.jpeg I take lousy notes but it works, I wanted to keep track of the brass growth through fire forming then track the speed after the next firing.
Weather is improving so hopefully I’ll get out again this week.
 
I am curious. Do the outside temps affect ignition and also barrel temps, and cooling between shots and does it make a difference. Is it something you account for? I am an interested spectator.
 
Yes, as the weather warms up the node moves slightly, if I’m running on the edge of the tune it’s pretty easy to see when the powder needs adjustment.
Barrel heat effects my vision by creating heat waves in front of the scope more than tune, to combat I use a mirage shield which basically is a window blind held on by sticky Velcro.
Moving forward I may opt for a cordless fan.

Most of the guys run a Heavy Varmint contour barrel and send rounds at a steady pace, the barrel warms up but doesn’t throw shots.
 
B4247026-72B5-4541-A0F1-1253F5BEBF0C.jpeg 3595D038-09DF-4A6F-A514-B0A5D28AE016.jpeg I finished up forming the last one hundred cases and pulled the barrel using my 21st century barrel vise and an action wrench, it takes about one minute.
The nice thing about the BAT B action is that the threads are so precise that the next barrel just spins right on with near perfect headspace. I may have to adjust the die a thousandth or so but that is it.
 
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