Looking at ARs for hunting. What to know?

[Sanderguy777]

I was looking for a brush gun for hunting, but found that it's less of an issue than I thought.

I was looking for a lever gun, since I expected to be limited to straight walls, but thatbid no longer an issue, just that its centerfire.That being said, I started to look at ARs (because I can), and I really like the idea of swapping out barrels and stuff. Seems like a cool, and cheap option.

So, for a hunting AR, I'm looking at an IWI Zion z15, and two calibers to start. First is .223 wilde. I can shoot anything out of it, it's an accurate chambering and doesn't care about metric or sae standards. The second is 6.5 Creedmoor, which ill obviously need to add afterwards. (7.62x39 and .450 bushmaster are also choices, but .223 is the base model, and 6.5 seems better). It's obviously overkill for most of my 100, maybe 200yd shots I expect, but it's also very cheap, and if I'm getting a cartridge, I may as well get one I can use in an ar15 AND a normal bolt gun.

My question is: will that build be accurate past 200 yards? I don't plan on hunting that far out, but I'm curious what it acts like. I'm looking at the base IWI .223 barrel, but also the Bear Creek 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. Obviously it'll take deer, I'm just curious if there's another brand that really stands out as being really accurate in the sub-$1000 AR market, specifically with the 6.5 Creedmoor. (DPMS was the first to adopt it, but are they still any good?)

Thanks, really just looking for validation. Any suggestions for optics or barrels are welcome, but I think I'm set on the Z15 platform since it leaves me some spending money for other parts like the barrel and stuff.

 

[marksman13]

The 6.5 Creedmoor doesn’t work with AR-15 dimensions unless you get a POF-USA built rifle. 6.5 Grendel would suit your needs and fit in the AR-15 chamber.

 

[LocoGringo]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're talking about 2 different ARs. 6.5 Creedmoor has to be in a large frame AR, like .308 (think AR10). The .223 Wylde will take any .223 or 5.56x45 ammo and shoot it relatively well, but that's out of an AR15 frame. If you're looking for some kind of hunting (not sure what the game is you're wanting to hunt), look at 6.5 Grendel, 224 Valkyrie, 6mm ARC. The best way to do it is to have 2 uppers for the lower. One upper for the .223 Wylde and the other upper for the hunting you plan on doing.

You've got a lot more homework to do.

 

[Cfish]

6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC would be be your best options for an ar15 rifle

 

[Sanderguy777]

The 6.5 Creedmoor doesn’t work with AR-15 dimensions unless you get a POF-USA built rifle. 6.5 Grendel would suit your needs and fit in the AR-15 chamber.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're talking about 2 different ARs. 6.5 Creedmoor has to be in a large frame AR, like .308 (think AR10). The .223 Wylde will take any .223 or 5.56x45 ammo and shoot it relatively well, but that's out of an AR15 frame. If you're looking for some kind of hunting (not sure what the game is you're wanting to hunt), look at 6.5 Grendel, 224 Valkyrie, 6mm ARC. The best way to do it is to have 2 uppers for the lower. One upper for the .223 Wylde and the other upper for the hunting you plan on doing.

You've got a lot more homework to do.

Burst my bubble!? That killed the whole idea LOL.

Ok, then moving to the POF-USA, is it as reliable as the IWI? Is it also totally compatible with the other ar15 mil-spec options?

 

[LocoGringo]

No, it didn't kill the whole idea...it just changes your direction and you have to do a lot more research to understand what you're trying to do. You've got to find calibers that are compatible with the AR15. I listed 3 and Cfish listed another...6.8 SPC. I own 2 6.8 SPC rifles and I love the cartridge, but I think it is dying. There is virtually no brass being made for it. It's been eclipsed by 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC. I handload, so I can support what I own for a long time, but new users/buyers should beware.

Do your homework, don't rush.

 

[jmr40]

Don't sell 223 and the AR-15 short. It does have limitations, but inside 200 yards, (probably closer to 100 yards), and with proper bullets it is a deer cartridge. I wouldn't want to use it on game larger than deer, nor at long range.

You do have to choose ammo carefully. Most 223/5.56 ammo is either FMJ or is designed for small varmints. But there are rounds in the 60-77 gr weight class that are very effective on deer.

Barrel twist is important. Some older AR's came with 1:12 or slower barrels and are designed to work best with 55 gr or lighter bullets. The military is using 1:7 barrels now to handle heavier 60-80 gr bullets. You can even get 1:6 barrels designed for 90 gr bullets. I find 1:8 to be a good compromise. It will handle bullets up to 77-80 gr and as light as 55 gr. If you get a 1:7 twist barrel you need to stay with 60 gr+ bullets. Many AR's come with 1:9 which works on the lighter bullets up to about 60-65 gr. Those are the most common and are fine for what most guys do. But if you want to use heavier big game bullets seek out a 1:8 or 1:7 twist.

You could use the same rifle and swap uppers to use rounds like 350 Legend, 450 BM, 300BO. 6.5Grendel and others. Of those I like the 6.5 best. That gives you a longer-range round and one that is borderline OK on bigger game like elk or black bear. It is still a step below rounds like 308, 7-08, or 6.5CM.

To go to longer cartridges like 308 and 6.5CM you need the larger AR-10 rifle. IMO those are starting to be too heavy and cumbersome for hunting. I'd much rather have a trim lightweight bolt gun if choosing those cartridges.

 

[Sanderguy777]

No, it didn't kill the whole idea...it just changes your direction and you have to do a lot more research to understand what you're trying to do. You've got to find calibers that are compatible with the AR15. I listed 3 and Cfish listed another...6.8 SPC. I own 2 6.8 SPC rifles and I love the cartridge, but I think it is dying. There is virtually no brass being made for it. It's been eclipsed by 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC. I handload, so I can support what I own for a long time, but new users/buyers should beware.

Do your homework, don't rush.

I get that, but I was looking for a one and done solution and liked the IWI rifle. Maybe I could do a Ruger American with a cheap scope AND the IWI with just the stock barrel and iron sights. That would work, but I was basing my whole idea on a $200 barrel, and $1.15/round ammo. I would with have to change my cartridge selection to something more expensive (6.5 Grendel is $2.10/round), or get two different guns to do the a similar thing.

I have been doing research on it, I just thought I'd seen a 6.5 Creedmoor ar15 barrel. Probably just a bad filter on some website, or an odd-ball like the POF.

Ok, so how much would a 6.5 Creedmoor AR10 clst, that is as reliable and well designed as the IWI cost? (I mean the parts they used on the IWI seem to be the either the best, or at least the best you can get for the money, and they're built for 100% reliability, which I want.) IWI has a Tavor 7, which is a bullpup, but everything I've ever heard is that bullpups are unreliable. And I can only imagine the pain of finding parts for that would be if I wanted to swap to anything other than a stock IWI clambering.)

 

[marksman13]

Burst my bubble!? That killed the whole idea LOL.

Ok, then moving to the POF-USA, is it as reliable as the IWI? Is it also totally compatible with the other ar15 mil-spec options?

I have two POF rifles. My Revolution DI in 6mm Creedmoor has been completely reliable and accurate. My Rogue in 308 has had some feeding issues when suppressed, but has been plenty accurate.

As far as compatibility, you are out of luck. There are a few proprietary parts in the POFs to accommodate the larger bolt face and mag well required for the 308 family of cartridges. It’s impossible to have perfect compatibility between the 5.56 class of cartridges and the 308 class of cartridges. Look at the two cartridges side by side and you’ll understand why.

 

[marksman13]

I get that, but I was looking for a one and done solution and liked the IWI rifle. Maybe I could do a Ruger American with a cheap scope AND the IWI with just the stock barrel and iron sights. That would work, but I was basing my whole idea on a $200 barrel, and $1.15/round ammo. I would with have to change my cartridge selection to something more expensive (6.5 Grendel is $2.10/round), or get two different guns to do the a similar thing.

I have been doing research on it, I just thought I'd seen a 6.5 Creedmoor ar15 barrel. Probably just a bad filter on some website, or an odd-ball like the POF.

Ok, so how much would a 6.5 Creedmoor AR10 clst, that is as reliable and well designed as the IWI cost? (I mean the parts they used on the IWI seem to be the either the best, or at least the best you can get for the money, and they're built for 100% reliability, which I want.) IWI has a Tavor 7, which is a bullpup, but everything I've ever heard is that bullpups are unreliable. And I can only imagine the pain of finding parts for that would be if I wanted to swap to anything other than a stock IWI clambering.)

Moving up to a large frame AR in 6.5 CM or 308 takes your rifle from quick-handling, light and handy to something that just isn’t much fun to tote around in the woods. The Ruger SFAR is another good option if you want a 308 class cartridge with the smaller AR frame.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Don't sell 223 and the AR-15 short. It does have limitations, but inside 200 yards, (probably closer to 100 yards), and with proper bullets it is a deer cartridge. I wouldn't want to use it on game larger than deer, nor at long range.

You do have to choose ammo carefully. Most 223/5.56 ammo is either FMJ or is designed for small varmints. But there are rounds in the 60-77 gr weight class that are very effective on deer.

Barrel twist is important. Some older AR's came with 1:12 or slower barrels and are designed to work best with 55 gr or lighter bullets. The military is using 1:7 barrels now to handle heavier 60-80 gr bullets. You can even get 1:6 barrels designed for 90 gr bullets. I find 1:8 to be a good compromise. It will handle bullets up to 77-80 gr and as light as 55 gr. If you get a 1:7 twist barrel you need to stay with 60 gr+ bullets. Many AR's come with 1:9 which works on the lighter bullets up to about 60-65 gr. Those are the most common and are fine for what most guys do. But if you want to use heavier big game bullets seek out a 1:8 or 1:7 twist.

You could use the same rifle and swap uppers to use rounds like 350 Legend, 450 BM, 300BO. 6.5Grendel and others. Of those I like the 6.5 best. That gives you a longer-range round and one that is borderline OK on bigger game like elk or black bear. It is still a step below rounds like 308, 7-08, or 6.5CM.

To go to longer cartridges like 308 and 6.5CM you need the larger AR-10 rifle. IMO those are starting to be too heavy and cumbersome for hunting. I'd much rather have a trim lightweight bolt gun if choosing those cartridges.

Thanks! That's great info! I knew the .223 was ok for deer, but it's a little on the light side. I was hoping for something a little more powerful. The .223 was more of a "this is cheap, and I can't get the rifle without it, so..." By no means useless, and I plan to use it for varmints and targets, but it's good to know that that rifle in particular (1:8 barrel) would be ok for deer if I chose to just get it.

I have two POF rifles. My Revolution DI in 6mm Creedmoor has been completely reliable and accurate. My Rogue in 307 has had some feeding issues when suppressed, but has been plenty accurate.

As far as compatibility, you are out of luck. There are a few proprietary parts in the POFs to accommodate the larger bolt face and mag well required for the 308 family of cartridges. It’s impossible to have perfect compatibility between the 5.56 class of cartridges and the 308 class of cartridges. Look at the two cartridges side by side and you’ll understand why.

Yeah, I understand. And that means I'll just get one or the other. I was initially leaning towards the ar10 platform because I could get all the good old cartridges like .243, and .270, but then I was looking and found that the 6.5 is easier on the shoulder, and about $0.30 a round cheaper on the low end. Also seems to have a ton of options available too, and there's no shortage of barrels available for ar10s (and I thought ar15s, too).

So POF is completely beholden to their own uppers, or are there other compatibility issues as well? And would you say their reliable other than the 307 (did you mean .308?)

 

[Sanderguy777]

Moving up to a large frame AR in 6.5 CM or 308 takes your rifle from quick-handling, light and handy to something that just isn’t much fun to tote around in the woods. The Ruger SFAR is another good option if you want a 308 class cartridge with the smaller AR frame.

Does the sfar come in 6.5CM? and are they reliable? (I know ruger is good, but I want bulletproof if I can get it).

 

[marksman13]

Thanks! That's great info! I knew the .223 was ok for deer, but it's a little on the light side. I was hoping for something a little more powerful. The .223 was more of a "this is cheap, and I can't get the rifle without it, so..." By no means useless, and I plan to use it for varmints and targets, but it's good to know that that rifle in particular (1:8 barrel) would be ok for deer if I chose to just get it.


Yeah, I understand. And that means I'll just get one or the other. I was initially leaning towards the ar10 platform because I could get all the good old cartridges like .243, and .270, but then I was looking and found that the 6.5 is easier on the shoulder, and about $0.30 a round cheaper on the low end. Also seems to have a ton of options available too, and there's no shortage of barrels available for ar10s (and I thought ar15s, too).

So POF is completely beholden to their own uppers, or are there other compatibility issues as well? And would you say their reliable other than the 307 (did you mean .308?)

No 270 Win in an AR unless you get into some of the boutique rifles and then nothing is standard. All proprietary. The OAL of the 30-06 family is too long for the AR-10. 243 is definitely an option though. But, like I said, it’s going to be a chunky rifle.

The POF uppers and lowers for their Rogue and Revolution lines will only work with each other. You can’t swap uppers and lowers for any other brand. Lots of engineering to make the magic of squeezing a 308 into a 5.56 sized action happen.

 

[marksman13]

Does the sfar come in 6.5CM? and are they reliable? (I know ruger is good, but I want bulletproof if I can get it).

Ruger has said that they will be building the SFAR in 6.5 CM, but no word on when they’ll be released that I have seen.

 

[CapnMac]

You may see some "sticker shock" with POF.
There's a wide variety of the "large well" ARs, and while the differences are narrowing, they still exist--this is very much unlike the AR-15 market, where the parts are very much as standardized as Legos.

 

[12Bravo20]

I'll echo what others have said. If you want just one lower, go with any standard AR15 lower. There are plenty of calibers that fit the AR15 that are good deer rounds out to 300 yards. I would recommend a 223/223Wylde/5.56 upper for general target shooting and some small varmint hunting. You won't go wrong with the 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SCP for deer sized game. The 6.5 Grendel is the most common the three as far as finding ammo goes. But the 6 ARC is readily available now days. While 6.8 SPC is a good round, ammo is going to harder to find.

 

[Trey Veston]

I've built a couple of ARs for hunting and woods defense. I just don't like how they carry. A lever gun or bolt gun is vastly better for hunting big game than any AR.

My go-to rifle for hunting is my Ruger Predator rifle in .308.

 

[citizenconn]

I do most of my AR deer hunting with 6.5 Grendel or .350 Legend, depending on how far I plan to shoot. For hog hunting I prefer the .450 Bushmaster or sometimes a large frame AR in .308 if I want to thump at a little longer range. I rarely get out one of my 6.8 SPCs anymore, but they are extremely capable as well. I have not tried my 6 ARCs yet for hunting; will probably stick to target shooting with them. I really wish I had picked up a .30 RAR or two back in the day, but have been thinking about trying the .300 Ham'r.

There are several other wildcat or near wildcat AR cartridges that I think would be great for hunting that I have not had time to check out yet, since I spend mot of my time these days at the target range, but I'm sure they are worth checking out.

 

[BushMaster-15]

I was looking for a brush gun for hunting, but found that it's less of an issue than I thought.

I was looking for a lever gun, since I expected to be limited to straight walls, but thatbid no longer an issue, just that its centerfire.That being said, I started to look at ARs (because I can), and I really like the idea of swapping out barrels and stuff. Seems like a cool, and cheap option.

So, for a hunting AR, I'm looking at an IWI Zion z15, and two calibers to start. First is .223 wilde. I can shoot anything out of it, it's an accurate chambering and doesn't care about metric or sae standards. The second is 6.5 Creedmoor, which ill obviously need to add afterwards. (7.62x39 and .450 bushmaster are also choices, but .223 is the base model, and 6.5 seems better). It's obviously overkill for most of my 100, maybe 200yd shots I expect, but it's also very cheap, and if I'm getting a cartridge, I may as well get one I can use in an ar15 AND a normal bolt gun.

My question is: will that build be accurate past 200 yards? I don't plan on hunting that far out, but I'm curious what it acts like. I'm looking at the base IWI .223 barrel, but also the Bear Creek 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. Obviously it'll take deer, I'm just curious if there's another brand that really stands out as being really accurate in the sub-$1000 AR market, specifically with the 6.5 Creedmoor. (DPMS was the first to adopt it, but are they still any good?)

Thanks, really just looking for validation. Any suggestions for optics or barrels are welcome, but I think I'm set on the Z15 platform since it leaves me some spending money for other parts like the barrel and stuff.

IF You're handy assembling parts into Rifles ,DEALS can be had . Some SUPER parts sales are happening NOW . GOOD lowers and GREAT Barrels are the Key .

.308 IMO is a Better choice 0-800 Yd. hunting ,now 6.5 CM is Great 0-1200 Yd. target wise . Brush guns Not hardly ,so if 0-300 yd. appeals to Your hunting style 16" even 14.5" barrels might be for You ?. Although 18" is more practical again IMO .

I prefer 20" barrels myself as I've never had an issue with +4" barrel and velocity coupled with accuracy are SPOT ON .

I can tell You or anyone else ,that some brands you probably never considered produce superior accuracy and even with chrome lined bores .

I've got a bone stock 5.56X45mm Bushmaster XM15 E2S 20" Rifle A2 Type. I've shot 3 #5 shot groups at 200 meters and ALL holes fit under a dime with change to spare ,using handloads with 55 gr. Sierras and BLC-2 no less .

I've cobbled some Name brand Lowers with Big named Barrels ,which DON'T do as well !.

I've built perhaps a dozen AR-15's and 10's including MY last build 6.5 CM which shows REAL Promise in accuracy . MY .308's are pretty accurate but considering the $$$$'s I invested in them ,not certain the gain for $ value over PSA was worth it . Just being honest .
I've been VERY HAPPY with Aero Precision quality and capabilities Faxon barrels have also been impressive .

 

[LocoGringo]

I just don't like how they carry. A lever gun or bolt gun is vastly better for hunting big game than any AR.

This entire statement is an opinion of preference. Me and my 14-year old son would disagree strongly with you because we both killed deer with an AR-15 chambered in 6.8 SPC. My son is a very new beginner to AR shooting and he successfully killed his deer when she was on the run 30 yards away. He had NEVER even attempted a shot like that, much less was successful.

 

[12Bravo20]

And this whole thread is about AR's and nothing else.

 

[marksman13]

I've built a couple of ARs for hunting and woods defense. I just don't like how they carry. A lever gun or bolt gun is vastly better for hunting big game than any AR.

My go-to rifle for hunting is my Ruger Predator rifle in .308.

View attachment 1164956

Different strokes for different folks. I’d much rather carry an AR with a good two point sling across my chest. I’ve yet to find a bolt gun that carries as well as an AR.

 

[BushMaster-15]

And this whole thread is about AR's and nothing else.

Hunting . I've had zero issues transferring from Bolt to Boltless ,short #5 round magazines instead of #20-30-40 round nonsense makes quite a decent handling rifle . Now again IMO less recoil faster into battery allows for a second quick follow up ,should it become necessary .
Thankfully I've yet to find the need to test that theory

 

[12Bravo20]

DELETE Please

 

[marksman13]

Well good for you @BushMaster-15 but again the OP is asking about AR rifles specifically> And there are plenty of 5 and 10 round magazine for the different AR calibers since most states restrict the amount of ammo to 10 or less during big game seasons.

And my AR's in 6.8SPC and 6mm ARC are still lighter and easier to handle in the brush compared to my Savage bolt action rifles.

In the end you do you and let the rest of us discuss things and actually stay on topic.

I don’t think @BushMaster-15 has argued for anything other than an AR in this post, brother.