Looking for a brush gun

[Sanderguy777]

I'd avoid a typical AR10 as a hunting rifle, they're heavy to tote around typically.

There are some exceptions, the POF rifles, DPMS GII guns and the Ruger SFAR are all 308 guns, with exceptionally light weight. A 16" Ruger SFAR will probably be my next center fire rifle purchase.

All of the cartridges sized for an AR15 have their trade offs, certainly, but are very capable within their limitations. I feel like the 6ARC/6.5G are two very well balanced carbine cartridges, but ammo isn't the easiest to find.

Good to know. How heavy are they? The 7mm I used in Idaho was 9.5lbs, which isn't terrible, but also not all that far from the 7lb "light" guns everyone is talking about...
That Ruger sounds nice. Is the Wikipedia page right about the AR style cartridges being divided between ar15 and ar10, or is there a lot of wiggle room in there?

If your stuck on an AR for short range the 6arc or 6.5 Grendel are your best choices....

Not stuck, but the idea of swapping out an upper and mag for $500 or so is very tempting, considering the cheapest bolt guns are $400.

BA 6mm ARC Upper - $477.00

Then build a PSA lower with a nice trigger. Keep adding uppers as needed

That's the plan I think. I love lever guns, but I think that's a project I'll work on later LOL

You don't reload and many cartridges will do, so I would focus on something with common availability and I would plan to buy a few cases of a proven accurate factory offering once you buy the rifle.

.308 should be easy to find. 350 Legend is in every walmart and gun store I walk into and I don't even live in a straight wall state. The lever guns and most of the cartridges they chamber have become fairly expensive. 450BM has a lot of thump, but I don't think ammo is as available as 308 or 350L. I happen to really like 6.5 Grendel, but the ammo is harder to come by and I mostly prefer it because I need to be able to reach out to 300+ yards.

Unless you are dead set on a lever or a pump, I would suggest looking closely at a bolt action in .308 or 350L (a Ruger American Ranch is short enough to make a nice gun for climbing through the thick stuff), or I would look at a 16" barrel AR in 350 Legend or maybe 450BM.

I think the AR is what I'll end up with. It scares the west coast, but it just makes sense to have something I can swap cartridges on. If I leave a scope on an upper's rail, it would stay set up, right? Assuming I don't bump it or something I mean. So I would be able to have a .17hmr, 5.56, and .350L all set up and ready to go, just pop out a pin or two, and go?

 

[AJC1]

Good to know. How heavy are they? The 7mm I used in Idaho was 9.5lbs, which isn't terrible, but also not all that far from the 7lb "light" guns everyone is talking about...
That Ruger sounds nice. Is the Wikipedia page right about the AR style cartridges being divided between ar15 and ar10, or is there a lot of wiggle room in there?

Not stuck, but the idea of swapping out an upper and mag for $500 or so is very tempting, considering the cheapest bolt guns are $400.

That's the plan I think. I love lever guns, but I think that's a project I'll work on later LOL

I think the AR is what I'll end up with. It scares the west coast, but it just makes sense to have something I can swap cartridges on. If I leave a scope on an upper's rail, it would stay set up, right? Assuming I don't bump it or something I mean. So I would be able to have a .17hmr, 5.56, and .350L all set up and ready to go, just pop out a pin or two, and go?

If your buying quality glass your scope may cost more than your upper. The pitcany rail is great for fast swaps, and that system usually maintains 1/4 moa for removal and reinsillation. Again in a brush situation I think glass is a negative and after adding the cost of scope rings and uppers you are easily in nice lever territory. If your on the west coast then rounds using copper solids should be one of the main things to look at if you will be on federal lands.

 

[horsemen61]

Savage Hog Hunter 350 legend iron sights and its under $700

 

[Random 8]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...tride-15-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle.html Get this and you're there. Youll want a scope with 2x on the low end.. No need to get wild with ammo, just grab some 150 soft points. A few years ago I would have recommended a Rem 760 or 7600 used in the same caliber, but they are getting $$$ and hard to find.

 

[gotboostvr]

Good to know. How heavy are they? The 7mm I used in Idaho was 9.5lbs, which isn't terrible, but also not all that far from the 7lb "light" guns everyone is talking about...
That Ruger sounds nice. Is the Wikipedia page right about the AR style cartridges being divided between ar15 and ar10, or is there a lot of wiggle room in there?

Most "normal" DPMS pattern AR10's will start at about 9lbs before scope and mags.

They easily creep into the 12lbs+ range.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

That's actually one of the things I was thinking about. It would be interesting to look at a nicer handgun, vs a moderate rifle. I've never shot anything except with long guns, but I shot a .44 mag once and it was fun. Also, I wouldn't mind quoting Dirty Harry to every critter I sent hot lead after LOL


Sorry, i should have clarified. BP= is Bass Pro. Brush guns, to me, are heavy, slow bullets with little or no point to their profile. Think flat buffalo calibers, not .223 rounds you can stab yourself with LOL. Black powder is out of the question for me at the moment. Maybe someday, but smokeless seems like a more reasonable option at the moment.

It really depends on the range of where you’re hunting. A good brush gun lets you carry at the ready with one hand so you can move branches out of the way while you’re walking down a trail. I like hard-hitting hand guns and quick shouldering carbines if I’m going to be walking any distance past the road. My advice is to avoid getting something you have to sling carry or use two hands to manage while walking through underbrush where there’s ticks, chiggers, snakes and skeeters. Unless you know for sure you’re only going to be walking 20 or 30 yards to a baited tree stand.

 

[Sanderguy777]

I use a laser range finder, unless it's one of my stands, then I know the distances

A hold over from my army days is to build a small range card whenever I sit in overwatch. I'll laze in terrain features and record distances; trees, fence posts, gates, crests etc. That way I'm not fumbling when I should be shooting. It's also why I like the flatter trajectories, sometimes it's a "guestimation" which only comes with practice.

My backyard range goes out to 760yds and I have permanent swingers set up at varying distances. Even so IF it's beyond 300yds it's getting lazed, under will get lased too IF I have time. You can play with a ballistic app like Strelok and get a good idea of the subtense for a deer in your scope as a hasty form of ranging. Leupolds had a ranging portion on their magnification ring for this purpose. It is not exact, but for 300 and under it works, but with most HV bottle-neck hunting rounds a 200yd zero and "holding on hair" works out to 300yds.

I've used and practiced using mil reticles for ranging, and it works, but it takes time and is a skill unto itself. Not every tgt is the standard size, nor is the presentation the same. Which is why most guys are carrying lasers now.

Don't take this wrong, but based on your line of questions, it really sounds like at this point you need to keep it simple. .308 bolt gun, decent scope and practice.

No offense taken. I've shot 2 deer, but that was a long time ago, and I was just tramping around with a friend, not really paying attention to technique LOL.

If your buying quality glass your scope may cost more than your upper. The pitcany rail is great for fast swaps, and that system usually maintains 1/4 moa for removal and reinsillation. Again in a brush situation I think glass is a negative and after adding the cost of scope rings and uppers you are easily in nice lever territory. If your on the west coast then rounds using copper solids should be one of the main things to look at if you will be on federal lands.

Nope, MO. No copper issues I know of. I'm in Cali at the moment, but won't be when I'm hunting. I think glass would be more of a low power 1x or 2x red dot or something, on a diagonal mount compared to the open sights I'd have for my main use. But yeah, definitely not gonna be cheap, any way I go. I think the advantage to the AR is you can build what you want, and don't have to be stuck with what a company decided was popular or not (bot completely true, but at least you have after market options. Can't really get a .223 lever gun LOL)

Savage Hog Hunter 350 legend iron sights and its under $700

I'll take a look!

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...tride-15-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle.html Get this and you're there. Youll want a scope with 2x on the low end.. No need to get wild with ammo, just grab some 150 soft points. A few years ago I would have recommended a Rem 760 or 7600 used in the same caliber, but they are getting $$$ and hard to find.

Sounds good.

 

[AJC1]

Good to know. How heavy are they? The 7mm I used in Idaho was 9.5lbs, which isn't terrible, but also not all that far from the 7lb "light" guns everyone is talking about...
That Ruger sounds nice. Is the Wikipedia page right about the AR style cartridges being divided between ar15 and ar10, or is there a lot of wiggle room in there?

Not stuck, but the idea of swapping out an upper and mag for $500 or so is very tempting, considering the cheapest bolt guns are $400.

That's the plan I think. I love lever guns, but I think that's a project I'll work on later LOL

I think the AR is what I'll end up with. It scares the west coast, but it just makes sense to have something I can swap cartridges on. If I leave a scope on an upper's rail, it would stay set up, right? Assuming I don't bump it or something I mean. So I would be able to have a .17hmr, 5.56, and .350L all set up and ready to go, just pop out a pin or two, and go?

If your buying quality glass your scope may cost more than your upper. The pitcany rail is great for fast swaps, and that system usually maintains 1/4 moa for removal and reinsillation. Again in a brush situation I think glass is a negative and after adding the cost of scope rings and uppers you are easily in nice lever territory. If your on the west coast then rounds using copper solids should be one of the main things to look at if you will be on federal lands

No offense taken. I've shot 2 deer, but that was a long time ago, and I was just tramping around with a friend, not really paying attention to technique LOL.


Nope, MO. No copper issues I know of. I'm in Cali at the moment, but won't be when I'm hunting. I think glass would be more of a low power 1x or 2x red dot or something, on a diagonal mount compared to the open sights I'd have for my main use. But yeah, definitely not gonna be cheap, any way I go. I think the advantage to the AR is you can build what you want, and don't have to be stuck with what a company decided was popular or not (bot completely true, but at least you have after market options. Can't really get a .223 lever gun LOL)


I'll take a look!

Sounds good.

You absolutely can it's called a Browning blr...

 

[Ranger99]

Forget rapid fire, it isn't important. Make the 1st shot count. . . .

There is no such thing as "brush busting" bullets. Any bullet that hits brush will deflect. The key is to shoot through OPENINGS in the brush. . . . .

Two key phrases ^ ^ ^ ^ for all hunting

know your target

 

[Savage30L]

My "brush gun" is a Browning BPS 12-gauge shotgun with a Hastings rifled barrel, and a 2.5-8X Nikon scope on a cantilever mount. Don't overlook a shotgun....mine is certainly sufficiently accurate for deer hunting....I've killed about 2 dozen of them (and one hog) with it, never missed one, never lost one. A 12-gauge slug pokes a big hole, leaves a good blood trail. Plus, I can switch out barrels and hunt ducks, doves, you name it.

Edit: And, you can obtain ammo anywhere.

 

[Bwana John]

Yep, ^ 12 ga.

 

[brewer12345]

Good to know. How heavy are they? The 7mm I used in Idaho was 9.5lbs, which isn't terrible, but also not all that far from the 7lb "light" guns everyone is talking about...
That Ruger sounds nice. Is the Wikipedia page right about the AR style cartridges being divided between ar15 and ar10, or is there a lot of wiggle room in there?

Not stuck, but the idea of swapping out an upper and mag for $500 or so is very tempting, considering the cheapest bolt guns are $400.

That's the plan I think. I love lever guns, but I think that's a project I'll work on later LOL

I think the AR is what I'll end up with. It scares the west coast, but it just makes sense to have something I can swap cartridges on. If I leave a scope on an upper's rail, it would stay set up, right? Assuming I don't bump it or something I mean. So I would be able to have a .17hmr, 5.56, and .350L all set up and ready to go, just pop out a pin or two, and go?

You'd need a scope per upper, but yes, once sighted in they should stay that way even if you swap uppers. Just make sure you have a really good trigger in the lower. I like the Larue 2 stage ones the best for hunting, but there are a bunch of high quality aftermarket triggers that will do it.

 

[.308 Norma]

BP = Bass Pro

Thanks!

Sorry, i should have clarified. BP= is Bass Pro.

Got ya. Thanks!

Brush guns, to me, are heavy, slow bullets with little or no point to their profile. Think flat buffalo calibers, not .223 rounds you can stab yourself with LOL.

Guns that shoot "heavy, slow bullets" used to mean "brush guns" or "brush busters" to me as well. Now I'm firmly in the camp of, "There's no such thing as a brush buster when it comes to guns."
On the other hand, I once read an article in a gun magazine about how pointed bullets (like the ones "you can stab yourself with" will make their ways through brush better than blunt bullets. And that made sense to me because, think about it - a sewing needle will make its way through something a lot easier than a knitting needle.
Nevertheless, I still don't believe there's any such thing as a "brush buster" bullet. And if I was looking for a rifle for hunting in areas where a "long range" shot is still only about a hundred yards, I'd want a quick pointing rifle with a relatively short barrel (about 20 inches) and a fairly low-powered (2X or 3X) scope, and it would be chambered for the great .308 Winchester.
Besides, if you got yourself a .308 Winchester, you could always put a slightly higher-powered scope on it if you ever move back here to southern Idaho where 150 to 200 yard shots on big mule deer are not all that uncommon.
BTW, I use a .308 Norma Magnum for mule deer and elk hunting in southern Idaho nowadays. But I started with a .308 Winchester way back in the early '60s, and it never failed me. As you know though, there aren't any wild hogs here. So I'm just going to go ahead and guess that a .308 Winchester is plenty of gun for a wild hog.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Thanks!

Got ya. Thanks!

Guns that shoot "heavy, slow bullets" used to mean "brush guns" or "brush busters" to me as well. Now I'm firmly in the camp of, "There's no such thing as a brush buster when it comes to guns."
On the other hand, I once read an article in a gun magazine about how pointed bullets (like the ones "you can stab yourself with" will make their ways through brush better than blunt bullets. And that made sense to me because, think about it - a sewing needle will make its way through something a lot easier than a knitting needle.
Nevertheless, I still don't believe there's any such thing as a "brush buster" bullet. And if I was looking for a rifle for hunting in areas where a "long range" shot is still only about a hundred yards, I'd want a quick pointing rifle with a relatively short barrel (about 20 inches) and a fairly low-powered (2X or 3X) scope, and it would be chambered for the great .308 Winchester.
Besides, if you got yourself a .308 Winchester, you could always put a slightly higher-powered scope on it if you ever move back here to southern Idaho where 150 to 200 yard shots on big mule deer are not all that uncommon.
BTW, I use a .308 Norma Magnum for mule deer and elk hunting in southern Idaho nowadays. But I started with a .308 Winchester way back in the early '60s, and it never failed me. As you know though, there aren't any wild hogs here. So I'm just going to go ahead and guess that a .308 Winchester is plenty of gun for a wild hog.

I based my brush gun idea on a video I saw of a guy showing that they were a thing. I think only .44 and .45 calibers were able to do any better than anything else. The guy only shot 3 shots per caliber, and the vast majority of the 15 or 20 calibers he tested made 2 hits on the 10" gong through about 5 or 10 yards of brush, and about 40 yards of clear (or so he said, because the one camera didn't really show anything but an impenetrable wall of brush, and the other showed the gong LOL). Based on that, .22 and .223 only hit once, I think. .35, .357, .30-06, etc hit twice. And like I said, only I think .444 and .45-70 hit 3 times. Groupings were really bad (like 6 inches), but al.ost every caliber had a similar grouping like that, and only a couple actually tumbled. The .45-70 and a couple others sheered off a couple small branches as they went through to hit the target, but I'm not sure if that was more to do with actually hitting the branch vs being better at "brush gunning" than the others LOL. They're entertaining, but not super scientific. And the major thing I took away is that the .45-70 would be the only one I would use of the ones he showed, since it was the only one that seemed to be consistent at hitting it, and commonly available. (The videos are iraqveteran8888's brush gun 1 and 2.)

Now I think a bigger concern is the size of the gun, and whether it would be a round I'm interested in using.

 

[Shotgun Willy]

There are quite a few different directions you can go that have been offered here, but this might be a good place for a scout rifle.

 

[Reloadron]

When I think "brush gun" I think large slow bullets from an easy to handle short rifle. Living here in Ohio before any rifle hunting of deer was prohibited I hunted West Virginia extensively. Dense brush and wooded areas with just about all shots inside 100 yards. My go to rifles were a Marlin lever gun in 444 Marlin and my old Ruger 44 Carbine in 44 Magnum with my side arm a S&W Model 29 which complimented the Ruger 44. Took plenty of whitetail over the years with those two rifles. Consider the game and consider the distances you expect to shoot.

Ron

 

[MikeInOr]

My father always described his Remington 760 as a brush gun. 30-06 will do most things a gun needs to do. He had a detachable Weaver 8x on it and always told me he preferred to just use the open sights.



I have his 760 now and never placed a high value on it other than sentimental. I read somewhere that 760's and 7600's have started to gain in popularity lately as "brush guns".



If you want to go more exotic I have heard the 35 Whelen (basically a 35-06) is "brush gun" nirvana... but I think 30-06 is pretty darn sufficient for most things and much easier to find. My father always told me that if you can't humanely harvest it with a 30-06 then you probably shouldn't be shooting at it.

 

[curtste]

"30-06 will do most things a gun needs to do" is going into my memory for use at some point. Such a concise way to put it. Thank you.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

My father always described his Remington 760 as a brush gun. 30-06 will do most things a gun needs to do. He had a detachable Weaver 8x on it and always told me he preferred to just use the open sights.

View attachment 1163293

I have his 760 now and never placed a high value on it other than sentimental. I read somewhere that 760's and 7600's have started to gain in popularity lately as "brush guns".

View attachment 1163302

If you want to go more exotic I have heard the 35 Whelen (basically a 35-06) is "brush gun" nirvana... but I think 30-06 is pretty darn sufficient for most things and much easier to find.

I have a Standard Grade 760 in .300 Savage. It’s real good for 200+ yards over clear cut pine land. It rattles too much for stalking and I have better rifles for a stand.

I wouldn’t try shooting through anything. I like to have a clear line of sight on my game before my finger gets to the trigger.

 

[Old Hobo]

As for the 45-70, there are varying factory loadings both in bullet types and in varying chamber pressures. Very low pressure loads are for older rifles -- these may even fire in an old trapdoor, but check on this yourself. Then there are the medium loads for levers. Hot loads (+P and such) are for the strongest receivers. Some specialty levers will handle a lot of pressure; HOWEVER, make sure your rifle is built for high pressure loads before buying such ammunition.

As you already know, hogs come in all sizes, from small to HUGE and dangerous.

In the following video, a fellow tests several manufacturers of 45-70 cartridges in his lever-action rifle for accuracy at 100 yards:

 

[Buckeye63]

To me .. a brush gun is a short quick handling rifle/ carbine ..

not a caliber that will shoot through brush.. all bullets can and will be deflected ..

I have found a 30-30 carbine is hard to beat

 

[MikeInOr]

I have a Standard Grade 760 in .300 Savage. It’s real good for 200+ yards over clear cut pine land. It rattles too much for stalking and I have better rifles for a stand.

I wouldn’t try shooting through anything. I like to have a clear line of sight on my game before my finger gets to the trigger.

My father was the only one to own the gun before me and he took real good care of his stuff. He harvested many deer and a couple of elk with the 760 and he never shot over 100 yards. I have carried it and have never noticed any kind of rattling but it still seems quite tight. My father did his hunting in Michigan and I got the impression that if you didn't shoot through brush you didn't shoot. I have never hunted there so that concept is foreign to me.

My father was a young man and did most of his hunting in the post WWII years which probably explains a lot about his affinity to the 30-06. (His older brother was killed in Belgium.)

 

[Old Hobo]

I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence, but some folk may not know about a boar hog's gristle plate; a.k.a. "shoulder plate", a.k.a. "shoulder shield".

When dropping a large boar hog, you must understand that the bullet is first going to have to drive through the critter's gristle plate. So I'm posting a link to an article that describes this anatomical structure. Boar hogs fight and they are monsters with razor sharp tusks (there are several names for these tusks, the name varies by culture). This plate helps protect them from being ripped open during combat. This plate is going to impede a bullet's ability to get into the hog's boiler works (heart and lungs).

Shoulder Shields in Feral Hogs – Feral Hogs

The illustration is from the article. Below I quote a paragraph from the above article:

"The shield initially develops as early as 9-12 months of age, and then increases to be found in all adult boars (36+ months of age). Growth of the shield begins in the central lateral shoulder region and then increases to cover an area extending from the base of the neck back to the front portion of the hips (Fig. 2), and from the middle of the back down to the upper margin of the front leg. The average shield dimensions are as follows: length 14 inches, height 12 inches, and thickness 1 inch. The shield thickness in older boars can even reach 2 inches. These dimensions increase with age, physical size, and body weight. The thickness varies seasonally, being greatest during the annual peak of conception, and is positively correlated with the animal’s body condition."

 

[badkarmamib]

I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence, but some folk may not know about a boar hog's gristle plate; a.k.a. "shoulder plate", a.k.a. "shoulder shield".

Insult away! I always knew hogs were tough critters, but never delved into the why. Never hunted them, none around here. But, I learned something new, so today is a good day. Thanks!

 

[Ranger99]

In my region, more so than the gristle
is the dried coat of mud packed in
the coarse hair of feral hogs.
Trying a torso heart-lung-pumphouse
shot with about anything will lose
your porker. The holes get plugged up
with all that gristle and fat and trash
and hair and most often don't leave
good blood. The gristle can be easily
poked through, but that hard dried
mud and clay in the hair can sure
mess things up, almost like a porky
flak jacket. I like the ear-eye better
for those bottom land porkers

Like Arnold said, " if it bleeds we
can kill it "