Chevelle SS
Member
I have a VZ24 that is super smooth.
Looking for milsurp rifle with smooth (bolt, or not) action
- Thread starter Esoteria
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WardenWolf
member
Depends on what you're looking for. My own M91/30 is smooth as can be, but my Finn M39 is really rough. A skilled gunsmith CAN smooth them out, and I'm thinking of having a local one give my M39 some TLC.
What I recommend is that you have someone look over your Mosin, and also look at other bolt actions. Turkish Mausers have excellent fit and finish, and often look as good as they shoot, too.
What I recommend is that you have someone look over your Mosin, and also look at other bolt actions. Turkish Mausers have excellent fit and finish, and often look as good as they shoot, too.
I've only owned my Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk. I for a few days, but I can already tell you that it has the smoothest action of any milsurp bolt-action that I'm aware of.
Unlike most bolt-action rifles, it's also a joy to load with stripper clips. The rounds drop in like butter.
Mausers aren't bad either, my favorite being the Swedish Mausers. I've got one and my Dad has two - all three of them have smooth bolts, but not as smooth as the Enfield's.
I've also got another suggestion for a semi-auto that can be converted to a straight-pull bolt-action by switiching off the gas system:
What about an FN-49 / SAFN?
I'm not sure about the US, but around here, they aren't much more expensive than most of the aforementioned bolt-action rifles.
Unlike most bolt-action rifles, it's also a joy to load with stripper clips. The rounds drop in like butter.
Mausers aren't bad either, my favorite being the Swedish Mausers. I've got one and my Dad has two - all three of them have smooth bolts, but not as smooth as the Enfield's.
I've also got another suggestion for a semi-auto that can be converted to a straight-pull bolt-action by switiching off the gas system:
What about an FN-49 / SAFN?
I'm not sure about the US, but around here, they aren't much more expensive than most of the aforementioned bolt-action rifles.
Mike C2
Member
The US P17 Enfield (1917) is a slick action as well, and chambered in '06. They can be picked up cheap as Sporterized guns.
gwpercle
Member
Have always heard the 30-40 Krag was the smoothest . I have a 1911 Swiss K-11, that the straight pull-push action feels like it's on greasy ball bearings sliding on ice. Haven't tried a K-31 , but I can tell you the Swiss spared no expense making these...like a swiss watch , they are a marvel and fun to shoot.
Gary
Gary
WardenWolf
member
The K-31 didn't impress me too much. They're not *that* smooth. And they're possibly the most lefty-unfriendly manual action out there. My Mosin's a lot smoother. As are both my Mausers.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I always did like the 6.5 Swede. During the early 90s some really sweet rifles poured in. No clue how many we sold but those were among the rifles I regretted not saving one for myself. So the 6.5 Swede gets my vote but really there are likely a dozen others in that price range equally as good and fun to shoot.
Ron
Ron
tark
Member
Mosins are sometimes difficult to operate in large part due to that stupid little stubby bolt handle. Shoot a Mosin sniper rifle with the long, bent down handle and it is like night and day. For sheer slick, smoothness it is hard to beat a Krag. Also hard to find a good one in your price range. Some Lee Enfields can be surprisingly slick and smooth and they AREN'T hard to find in your price range.
Swedish Mausers are a fantastic gun with a fantastic cartridge and the quality is second to none.
Can't really go wrong with any of these.
Swedish Mausers are a fantastic gun with a fantastic cartridge and the quality is second to none.
Can't really go wrong with any of these.
Thanks a lot for all the input, guys. I know this will help a lot of people besides me open up their options.
Right now the Swedish Mauser is still topping my list because it seems to at least *make* everyone else's list, and I like the cartridge and the look of the rifle to boot.
I need to handle a K31 and a Krag at a gun show, though, because getting my hands on it may totally change my mind. I had kind of forgotten about the Krag and I'm totally into that whole weird loading gate thing. However I think one that's in good shape might be a bit out of my price range unless I just fall in love with it.
I've only handled one other Mosin, and its action was better than mine. I did not personally do the cosmoline removal on this one, a friend did, and it was his first gun so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a big contributor to the problem. Is there a process I can follow to remove whatever might be left, or have I baked it in and that ship has sailed?
Right now the Swedish Mauser is still topping my list because it seems to at least *make* everyone else's list, and I like the cartridge and the look of the rifle to boot.
I need to handle a K31 and a Krag at a gun show, though, because getting my hands on it may totally change my mind. I had kind of forgotten about the Krag and I'm totally into that whole weird loading gate thing. However I think one that's in good shape might be a bit out of my price range unless I just fall in love with it.
I've only handled one other Mosin, and its action was better than mine. I did not personally do the cosmoline removal on this one, a friend did, and it was his first gun so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a big contributor to the problem. Is there a process I can follow to remove whatever might be left, or have I baked it in and that ship has sailed?
lonniemike
Member
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You can think of the K31 as a straightpull Garand with a manually operated gas system.
Gordon
Member
Bottom gun is my R-10 Ross factory sporter. You won't find smoother and it shoots .303 British quite accurately . $500 + ship would do it , it is excellent shape and prolly worth more.
tark
Member
Since Gordon has brought up the subject of the Ross..... The smoothest, slickest, easiest to operate bolt action (of any type) that I have ever used is my Ross M-10 Sporter in 280 Ross. It makes a K-31 seem rough and cobby by comparison. If you hold the rifle with the muzzle down with a round in the magazine, the bolt will run forward and chamber the round by itself. The M-10 uses a double column magazine that is conventional in appearance and function. It is MUCH smoother than that the .303 MkIII magazine. Other than that, the actions are identical.
Only one problem....you will never find an M-10 sporter in your price range and mine isn't for sale. For a look at one go to the general discussions threads and click on my restoration thread on the Ross M-10 sporter.
Only one problem....you will never find an M-10 sporter in your price range and mine isn't for sale. For a look at one go to the general discussions threads and click on my restoration thread on the Ross M-10 sporter.
tark
Member
oops, I meant the RIFLE threads
Gordon
Member
he said $500 and I dropped my excellent R-10 .303 to that + ship. I wanted $600 ship included. :banghead:
A lot of good suggestions above--this is only my opinion but these impression are from rifles that I own or have owned.
I agree for sheer accuracy and relative smoothness that Swiss rifles are great. Had a K31 but now just a K11 but both have spectacular triggers. Right now prices and scarcity are moving these up but still a good model can be had for less than $500 Springfields are also very smooth especially the old WWI era--has to do with casehardening process which also went wrong on some low number receivers. You might find a sporter Springfield or recovered drill rifle for $500 but original issue ones are getting pricey. Springfields generally have better triggers than their Mauser cousins. The U.S. 1917 rifle and its sister P14 Enfields are brutes--tough, accurate, but the bolt action is not as smooth-triggers are more like Mausers than Springfields.
Lee-Enfields due to magazine size and the short bolt stroke are very fast to operate but suffer in contrast on accuracy somewhat-see if you can get a post war No. 4, Mk. II. Enfields also usually have quite nice triggers especially the No. 4 series. Swedish Mausers, German Mausers GEW 98's or K98's, Czech Brno or FN Mausers, etc. are all fine but many at the $500 price point are well worn or assembled from parts especially German or Swedes. But, original Mauser triggers range from sucks badly to merely adequate with many Mausers falling victim to Bubba'd trigger jobs. There is a reason that you see a bunch of cocking pieces, triggers, and sears of Mausers floating around. Spanish M43 models and Yugo 24/47 and m48 models are well within that price point for pretty good models.
Last, but not least, the Krags overall of all my rifles have the hands down smoothest action (don't have one of the famed Mannlicher Schonaur or Ross rifles to compare). Case hardening, a single lug bolt, and the strange magazine combine to make chambering a cartridge so fast and smooth that you barely notice doing it. But Krag ammo is now harder to get than .303 and Krags are very well worn in shooter grades. Usually have very nice trigger actions though.
Wish I had a Garand but current medical needs have slowed any new acquisitions. Only fired a few rounds through one.
I agree for sheer accuracy and relative smoothness that Swiss rifles are great. Had a K31 but now just a K11 but both have spectacular triggers. Right now prices and scarcity are moving these up but still a good model can be had for less than $500 Springfields are also very smooth especially the old WWI era--has to do with casehardening process which also went wrong on some low number receivers. You might find a sporter Springfield or recovered drill rifle for $500 but original issue ones are getting pricey. Springfields generally have better triggers than their Mauser cousins. The U.S. 1917 rifle and its sister P14 Enfields are brutes--tough, accurate, but the bolt action is not as smooth-triggers are more like Mausers than Springfields.
Lee-Enfields due to magazine size and the short bolt stroke are very fast to operate but suffer in contrast on accuracy somewhat-see if you can get a post war No. 4, Mk. II. Enfields also usually have quite nice triggers especially the No. 4 series. Swedish Mausers, German Mausers GEW 98's or K98's, Czech Brno or FN Mausers, etc. are all fine but many at the $500 price point are well worn or assembled from parts especially German or Swedes. But, original Mauser triggers range from sucks badly to merely adequate with many Mausers falling victim to Bubba'd trigger jobs. There is a reason that you see a bunch of cocking pieces, triggers, and sears of Mausers floating around. Spanish M43 models and Yugo 24/47 and m48 models are well within that price point for pretty good models.
Last, but not least, the Krags overall of all my rifles have the hands down smoothest action (don't have one of the famed Mannlicher Schonaur or Ross rifles to compare). Case hardening, a single lug bolt, and the strange magazine combine to make chambering a cartridge so fast and smooth that you barely notice doing it. But Krag ammo is now harder to get than .303 and Krags are very well worn in shooter grades. Usually have very nice trigger actions though.
Wish I had a Garand but current medical needs have slowed any new acquisitions. Only fired a few rounds through one.
Nathanael_Greene
Member
Lee-Enfield. Sturdy, accurate, and very, very smooth.
barnbwt
member
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Including the various Arisakas
Yet another vote for K31; if you're reloading, there's none better.
-Same bullets & powder load as 30-06 (but longer-lived brass due to much lower operating pressures for similar performance)
-Extremely high quality barrels, probably the best available in 30 caliber milsurp (and identical or better than any competitor)
-Extremely smooth action, action, action...
-Extremely good quality overall, and more importantly, the best maintenance diligence of any milsurp rifle, ever (and I mean ever; I'm not aware of any rifles better kept than these)
-Unique/interesting action, and you can play catch with your brass if you care to (like the Mauser, you can easily control where your brass goes)
-Excellent magazines, which are detachable
-Best stripper-clip/loaders ever made, though less available than I wish
-Not great sights, though they WILL be dialed in. However, non-marring scope mounts are available to wring out the 1-2MOA accuracy most guns are capable of
-Factory ammo & Boxer brass are available, not hugely different from any "not 308 NATO FMJ" full power chambering, cost-wise
Anyone know if the Madsen M47 had a smooth action? It's always overlooked since bolt actions went out of style right before it was fielded, but it possesses the best traits of practically every great bolt gun that came before it.
TCB
barnbwt
member
- Joined
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- 7,340
You do know they make a drop-in bolt handle rail that drops over to the left side, turning the rifle into possibly the most left friendly milsurp bolt rifle out there, right?
I'm also gonna cast my doubt on the Mosin being smoother; the mill finishes simply were not as planar as the Swiss were. Now, your example could have been 'worn in' or worked on by someone at some point in the past, which could certainly explain the odd smoothness you experienced, but it is not typical. Certainly not to be expected. Tool marks were left on the sliding surfaces, that's simply a fact, and those on the Swiss rifles were much finer in texture. The Finnish guns I've messed with were definitely nicer, but still just on this side of 'serviceable' in my experience; basically on par with the cruder Mausers.
It's also possible the Swiss rifle you used had been improperly lubricated (oil vs grease) which could contribute to any number of issues. Most likely the longer handle on the Mosin simply made it seem like less force was needed, or you simply had a lot more practice on it (most likely) and were not as aware of the smoothness (which is fine & to be expected since 'smoothness' is among the more useless things to worry about in a firearm action, although it sounds good in ad-copy
). Some folks who shot my K31 pulled up/down on the bolt while cycling it out of habit, which causes some slight binding.And in the chamber. But, it's not like there aren't guns with rough camming surfaces, poorly cut chambers, messed up small parts, or badly made receiver rails. Hell, a lot of them are simply bent, for some reason or other. Ideally, they were pretty much a Mauser, yes, but 'ideal' is more often than not a fantasy in commbloc guns. A nice Mauser is a much more reliable pick (be it German, Swede, Czech, Swiss, etc.) as far as getting something with any number of desirable traits you'd want in a rifle.
"We'll keep pretending to work so long as they keep pretending to pay us" --whispered Soviet workers' slogan
TCB
czgunner
Member
The k31 is the most lefty friendly mil surp rifle! What else has a left hand bolt available?
I own:
1903A3
1917
Mosin Nagant
48 Turk mauser
98 Argentine mauser
Enfeild in .303
Enfeild in .308
A couple of 96 Sweeds
A couple remington 700 bench guns
These are my bolt guns. Hands down my favorite is my 96 Sweeds. I love the actions and everything about the rifles including the 6.5x55 round which I reload. I really like all my rifles and love their different personalities but my Sweeds are unquestionably my favorite! I still remember the very first shot I put through my first sweed. I tore apart a milk jug filled with water at 75 yards off hand... very first time I ever shot any Sweed... right out of the box with no sighting in! I fell in love instantly.
I need to get off my but and pick up a K31 while they are still relatively inexpensive. I love unique and well built firearms and the Swiss K31 definitely qualifies. A 30-40 Krag is also on my short list to aquire some day. I can't believe I didn't pick up a 38 Sweed carbine back when they were common, before I had kids and still had a C&R license. Wasn't there a Venizualian Mauser in .308 that went in the $100 range way back when? I wouldn't turn one of those down if I found one for a decent price.
I actually prefer semi-autos to bolts because I love studying their design and function. My favorite semi-auto is my A42 Ljungman due to the simplicity of its action and of course the 6.5x55 round. I have several other semi-autos that I love to shoot but the Ljungman is probably my favorite by a small margin. I will say that after owning a MAS46/56 for about 15 year I finally ordered some ammo and shot it for the first time a couple months ago. That little French riffle impressed the heck out of me! I never thought a French weapon would impress me. Shooting my Garand just gives me shivers thinking about where it might have been. The Garand is by far the smoothest, fun to shoot 30-06 but the Ljungman has less recoil but is still a powerful round. I don't talk to people about my Ljungman much... I have never figured out the correct pronunciation.
This is just my opinion as a C&R nut.
1903A3
1917
Mosin Nagant
48 Turk mauser
98 Argentine mauser
Enfeild in .303
Enfeild in .308
A couple of 96 Sweeds
A couple remington 700 bench guns
These are my bolt guns. Hands down my favorite is my 96 Sweeds. I love the actions and everything about the rifles including the 6.5x55 round which I reload. I really like all my rifles and love their different personalities but my Sweeds are unquestionably my favorite! I still remember the very first shot I put through my first sweed. I tore apart a milk jug filled with water at 75 yards off hand... very first time I ever shot any Sweed... right out of the box with no sighting in! I fell in love instantly.
I need to get off my but and pick up a K31 while they are still relatively inexpensive. I love unique and well built firearms and the Swiss K31 definitely qualifies. A 30-40 Krag is also on my short list to aquire some day. I can't believe I didn't pick up a 38 Sweed carbine back when they were common, before I had kids and still had a C&R license. Wasn't there a Venizualian Mauser in .308 that went in the $100 range way back when? I wouldn't turn one of those down if I found one for a decent price.
I actually prefer semi-autos to bolts because I love studying their design and function. My favorite semi-auto is my A42 Ljungman due to the simplicity of its action and of course the 6.5x55 round. I have several other semi-autos that I love to shoot but the Ljungman is probably my favorite by a small margin. I will say that after owning a MAS46/56 for about 15 year I finally ordered some ammo and shot it for the first time a couple months ago. That little French riffle impressed the heck out of me! I never thought a French weapon would impress me. Shooting my Garand just gives me shivers thinking about where it might have been. The Garand is by far the smoothest, fun to shoot 30-06 but the Ljungman has less recoil but is still a powerful round. I don't talk to people about my Ljungman much... I have never figured out the correct pronunciation.
This is just my opinion as a C&R nut.
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Thanks for the input Mike,
I've wanted a Ljungman for some time. Even if it had gas settings, though, it wouldn't make a great "bolt" gun due to the design. How does the brass hold up? The videos I've seen show the brass smacking the deflector pretty hard.
The pronunciation seems to be "Yoong-mun", as heard in several videos by people that probably wouldn't have made that up. =)
I've wanted a Ljungman for some time. Even if it had gas settings, though, it wouldn't make a great "bolt" gun due to the design. How does the brass hold up? The videos I've seen show the brass smacking the deflector pretty hard.
The pronunciation seems to be "Yoong-mun", as heard in several videos by people that probably wouldn't have made that up. =)
K31 and Swedish Mauser, with the Enfield coming in close third.
Redundant, I know, but these are great choices, and the first two are still relatively cheap. I would offer one other choice: Brazilian Mauser 1908, in 7x57. Mine is a tack driver. Got it for $200, with 4 boxes of ammo.
Redundant, I know, but these are great choices, and the first two are still relatively cheap. I would offer one other choice: Brazilian Mauser 1908, in 7x57. Mine is a tack driver. Got it for $200, with 4 boxes of ammo.
zb338
Member
If you have a budget of $500 don't bother with a military
rifle. They are big clubs and best left to shooters that want
to shoot military style target. Get a used Savage or Stevens
bolt action in the caliber of your choice. Later on put an
inexpensive scope onto it and you will have something.
Zeke
rifle. They are big clubs and best left to shooters that want
to shoot military style target. Get a used Savage or Stevens
bolt action in the caliber of your choice. Later on put an
inexpensive scope onto it and you will have something.
Zeke
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