Loud suppressors

[mavracer]

Like most people when I first started into the NFA world I wanted Hollywood quiet but as my collection grew I found a fondness for smaller, shorter, lighter cans and I've ended up with not just one but two setups that are loud but loved.
One is a 12.5" 5.56 SBR that I use a Torrent T9k on and the other is a 16" 308 with an old OSS BPR reflex can.
I don't have a meter but I'd guess they're both in the low to mid 140s Db and I still use earplugs when shooting them, but if you've been around a 16" 308 or 5.56 SBR you know just plugs really ain't enough lol.
So anyone else have a loud setup?

 

[DesertFox]

As much as I'd like to get into the suppressed realm, paying $500 for a can that appears to be worth all of $50 causes my pause.

 

[mavracer]

As much as I'd like to get into the suppressed realm, paying $500 for a can that appears to be worth all of $50 causes my pause.

Unfortunately that's the economics of it too many folks that don't want to pay the extortion fee from the guberment and the R&D $$$ gets amortized over fewer products.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Semi auto rifle hosts are hard pressed to come in under 140 regardless of can. A Stoner gas AR that has gas system adjustment is about the only platform that will, and not by much. All the rest are typically mid 140s into 150s. FAL, M1A, AK, and all the other op rod guns are pretty loud at shooters ear even when tuned. Still worth suppressing, but not OK for naked ears.

As such, I generally run smaller cans on them, since there's no point in 120s dB muzzle end suppression from an 8" or longer critter when you'll still be at least high 130s at ear.

Handgun hosts and hunting rifles are another where shorter & lighter sometimes outweighs maximum suppression. I love the way our 8" long Phoenix IX performs on 9mms, but when I'm actually toting one around and shooting less/very little, I'll use our 4.3", 3 ounce Canine that's just barely tolerable when dry. Likewise, our 9" Accipiter on my .25-06 sounds amazing, but walking through the woods, I prefer a couple inches shorter and a good bit lighter, despite higher sound pressure, because I'm likely only gonna fire one or two rounds, if at all.

As much as I'd like to get into the suppressed realm, paying $500 for a can that appears to be worth all of $50 causes my pause.

We could build $50 cans. And you'd get exactly what you paid for: Garbage. These things are a lifetime investment in the US, so a "buy once, cry once" outlook is prudent.

The only way you can get a halfway decent can for $50 is to machine it yourself with material you scored on the cheap. Even our shortest rifle can has more than $50 worth of 17-4 PH stainless bar stock in it at today's material prices, and 17-4 is far from being the most expensive suppressor material. Price out Inconel 718 or Cobalt 6 lately? Then there's all the other aspects of precision manufacturing. I pay more for consumable carbide drills and inserts in a year than most people pay for a new car, and I'm a small outfit. A single tool holder for my Mazak Integrex 200SY, a half million dollar machine, averages $800, go as high as $1,300. The turret milling heads for my SQT15M are $3,500-$5,000 each on the used market. Just the annual hydraulic fluid changes on those two machines runs $1,400. Servo motor goes tits up? There's 12 grand or more.

 

[mavracer]

As such, I generally run smaller cans on them, since there's no point in 120s dB muzzle end suppression from an 8" or longer critter when you'll still be at least high 130s at ear.

I really appreciate all the knowledge that you bring to the suppressor threads here.
As a end user consumer I feel even chasing the high 130s with these 2 would be fruitless as I'd still wear plugs other than maybe for a shot or two hunting.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

.........We could build $50 cans. And you'd get exactly what you paid for: Garbage. These things are a lifetime investment in the US, so a "buy once, cry once" outlook is prudent.....

very true statement many of the "cans" I look at are way cheaper than I can tool up to thread a body much less weld baffles or do any any of the work to build. Just a personal view point many will disagree with me. I think my only gripe is the wait time on a form 4. ...
I even bought what many consider as a garbage suppressor (Huntertown) my reasoning was to shoot cast in lieu of a quality sealed can. it works ok and serves my reason for it and the Tax stamp cost more than the "can" did.

 

[Gordon]

Due to the tax stamp , plus fees and the long wait times a quality can from $400-800 is very reasonable:
Also if one chooses carefully they can serve on a number of formats with very good results. I Use the Phoenix IX on .300 Black out subsonics, and a number of ,9 mm pistols and PCC .I use the 7 inch .308 Aquilae on supersonic jacketed 10 inch ,5.56 , 6.5 Creedmore rifles and .308 Win rifles 18" and longer.They are about as quiet as anything I've heard except for integrals.

 

[horsemen61]

As much as I'd like to get into the suppressed realm, paying $500 for a can that appears to be worth all of $50 causes my pause.

Even if somehow we got rid of the NFA AND ATF all together tomorrow and I could buy a “can” at will no wait much like a firearm in my home state I Still Would buy Quality stuff I’m a firm believer Buy Once Cry Once it’s the cost to do business I don’t enjoy it but the alternative is worse to me

 

[mavracer]

Just a personal view point many will disagree with me. I think my only gripe is the wait time on a form 4. .

My dealer brought up the point that as long as we keep the registry and "legal" ones aren't used in crime they stay off the radar.
But I agree the wait is too long and IMHO. There's no reason that if you have a NFA trust set up that you shouldn't be able to just add more to it without a wait.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

I should have added that the other 2 Suppressors that I have was definitely way higher quality than the huntertown.
Both suppress extremely well, light weight, no POI shift when mounted. They are worth EVERY dime I spent on them, both of the manufacturers as well as others are in the running for the next purchase. Performance and quality of the "can" is what I pay the most attention to.

The huntertown makes hearing safe on a hunt, and does POI shift.

 

[CapnMac]

even chasing the high 130s with these 2 would be fruitless as I'd still wear plugs other than maybe for a shot or two

And really, until you can get down to around 100dB (10Bel) you are taking damage with every shot.

 

[12Bravo20]

As mentioned, suppressors in the US are made to last due to all of the restrictions and wait periods.

Yes people in quite a few European countries can buy cheap suppressors with little to no restrictions. But those cheap suppressors are basically designed to be disposable. I have some experience with suppressors from when I was stationed in Europe. The cheap ones are definitely not made to last

We all know that the great majority of suppressors are no where near as quiet as hollywierd portrays them to be. In fact you want to wear some type of hearing protection with most centerfire rifle suppressors. The only centerfire suppressed guns I have experience with that are super quite are the De Lisle, Swedish K and Wel-Rod. All three have barrels with interregnal suppressors.

I was a machinist/tool and die maker most of my life and what MachIVshooter said about the cost of material, machines, and regular maintenance are true. I have very little time with CNC machines and did most of my machining on manual machines. I have made a few suppressors using a manual lathe for military use. But there is no way I could machine one as fast or for the same price as ones made on a CNC machine. Journeyman machinists and CNC programmers are skilled labor and their salaries are indicative of their training and knowledge.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

I don't know if one of mine is actually "loud" it is the popular Silencerco omega 300 according to the manufacturer specs follows:

• Decibel Rating: 130.1 dB (5.56)
• Rating: 5.7mm to 300 Win Mag
• Weight: 14oz
• Diameter: 1.56″
• Length: 7.09″
• Construction: Titanium + Cobalt 6 + Stainless Steel
• Mount: Bravo threaded

for a month or longer I was considering adding either the Yankee Hill Turbo T2 in 5.56 or the Silencerco Saker ASR 556 to the stable.
Turbo T2

• Decibel Rating: 134 dB
• Weight: 12.8oz (with adapter)
• Diameter: 1.56″
• Length: 5.59″ (6.5″ with adapter)
• Construction: Stainless steel + Inconel
• Mount: QD to YHM-5M2 and YHM-3102 mounts

Saker ASR

• Decibel Rating: 134 dB
• Weight: 16.7 oz
• Diameter: 1.5″
• Length: 7.33″
• Construction: Cobalt 6 + Stainless Steel
• Mount: Charlie threaded

I was considering the YHM Turbo T2 to be in the lead even though the Saker doesn't have a barrel length restriction... mainly the weight was driving my choice, and with a direct mount it's shorter than the Omega.
That is until I looked at Mavracer's Torrent T9k

• Weight: 6 oz (without mount)
• Length: 5”
• Diameter: 1.5”
• Material: Grade 5 Titanium
• Finish: High temperature cerakote
• Compatible Mounts: Torrent’s Hideout™ Muzzle Device & QD Mount Set, Dead Air’s Key-MO, SilencerCo’s ASR, and the Q Plan B, and Industry Standard 1.375x24 TPI Mounting Devices

WOW that is light and approx 1/2" shorter than the Yankee Hill Turbo T2

 

[MachIVshooter]

I don't know if one of mine is actually "loud" it is the popular Silencerco omega 300 according to the manufacturer specs follows:

• Decibel Rating: 130.1 dB (5.56)
• Rating: 5.7mm to 300 Win Mag
• Weight: 14oz
• Diameter: 1.56″
• Length: 7.09″
• Construction: Titanium + Cobalt 6 + Stainless Steel
• Mount: Bravo threaded

for a month or longer I was considering adding either the Yankee Hill Turbo T2 in 5.56 or the Silencerco Saker ASR 556 to the stable.
Turbo T2

• Decibel Rating: 134 dB
• Weight: 12.8oz (with adapter)
• Diameter: 1.56″
• Length: 5.59″ (6.5″ with adapter)
• Construction: Stainless steel + Inconel
• Mount: QD to YHM-5M2 and YHM-3102 mounts

Saker ASR

• Decibel Rating: 134 dB
• Weight: 16.7 oz
• Diameter: 1.5″
• Length: 7.33″
• Construction: Cobalt 6 + Stainless Steel
• Mount: Charlie threaded

I was considering the YHM Turbo T2 to be in the lead even though the Saker doesn't have a barrel length restriction... mainly the weight was driving my choice, and with a direct mount it's shorter than the Omega.
That is until I looked at Mavracer's Torrent T9k

• Weight: 6 oz (without mount)
• Length: 5”
• Diameter: 1.5”
• Material: Grade 5 Titanium
• Finish: High temperature cerakote
• Compatible Mounts: Torrent’s Hideout™ Muzzle Device & QD Mount Set, Dead Air’s Key-MO, SilencerCo’s ASR, and the Q Plan B, and Industry Standard 1.375x24 TPI Mounting Devices

WOW that is light and approx 1/2" shorter than the Yankee Hill Turbo T2

None of those will put down the advertised SPL at shooter's ear on an autoloading rifle host, nor will anything else. The Turbo T2 in parcular is well known for being a very high backpressure can (allegedly much improved with the Turbo T3).

The Omega actually is a pretty solid performer, if not a bit heavy for size. But 130.1 dBA on a semi auto 5.56 that's actually cycling is a pipe dream.

I have no experience with the T9k, but a 1.5x5", 3 baffle can with a 9mm bore size I promise will have a healthy bark on a 5.56 or .308 host. There's just only so much that can be done with so little volume. Not that it won't be helpful with blast, flash and overpressure, but just have realistic expectations, know that with 5.56 it's probably gonna be similar to an unsuppressed small caliber pistol. We packed 5 carefully designed, progressive geometry baffles with a .315" bore size into a 1.6x5" can to be able to get 145.1 muzzle/139.7 shooter's ear on a gas adjusted 10.5" 5.56 AR.

 

[Gordon]

" We packed 5 carefully designed, progressive geometry baffles with a .315" bore size into a 1.6x5" can to be able to get 145.1 muzzle/139.7 shooter's ear on a gas adjusted 10.5" 5.56 AR."

And that 5x5 Ecco Machine can I think you are referring to is one more I would really like to add to our herd ! Having that can for the dedicated SBR 5.56 choice would free up my Aquilae .300 for 6.5 and .308 duty !
In your video of the 5x5 performing at night I find it MOST impressive of any short barrel 5.56 light and compact can I ever saw/heard ! Good price too !

https://juxxi.com/video/48419/ecco-machine-five-by-five-flash-suppression?channelName=ECCOMachine

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

@MachIVshooter
I was in hopes you would weigh in ...

Yes I know that many suppressor manufacturer put out number that well can't be trusted to hold up to their claim. Usually it's the Marketing dept that dreams up that hype. Which is why I stated I don't know if my Omega is loud or not, What I do know is it is definitely quieter than shooting without it. While I did post the specs if you actually read my comments I like the OP was remarking as to the weights and lengths of the suppressor. Never did I expect any suppressor to be Hollywood quiet even the first one.
Back to the Omega yeah I think your right they probably did turn the gas off to get those numbers. That being said I was looking at your 5x5 two week ago 11oz weight . I'm not aware of a stocking dealer in my state that offers your products.

 

[Havok7416]

@MachIVshooter
I was in hopes you would weigh in ...

Yes I know that many suppressor manufacturer put out number that well can't be trusted to hold up to their claim. Usually it's the Marketing dept that dreams up that hype. Which is why I stated I don't know if my Omega is loud or not, What I do know is it is definitely quieter than shooting without it. While I did post the specs if you actually read my comments I like the OP was remarking as to the weights and lengths of the suppressor. Never did I expect any suppressor to be Hollywood quiet even the first one.
Back to the Omega yeah I think your right they probably did turn the gas off to get those numbers. That being said I was looking at your 5x5 two week ago 11oz weight . I'm not aware of a stocking dealer in my state that offers your products.

No one stocks his cans near me either. Didn't even come close to stopping me from transferring 5 of them in. My only regret is not buying more.
An Ecco Machine Furtivus 8" (before he changed the names). Whisper quiet on the Blackout setup seen here. Just in case anyone gets panicky, the brace is no longer installed.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'm not aware of a stocking dealer in my state that offers your products.

There are very few.

We're small, just a two man and one woman operation, and still spend about 60% of our time doing recores, mount conversions, custom parts and other service work. So we don't get a ton of them built. I chose to take a very conservative approach, which means slow growth, but solvency was more important to me. We have no debt, nor any pre-paid orders to fill. Maybe one day I'll take risks, but being a manufacturer of luxury items that are perpetually threatened by legislation, I sleep a lot better not owing tons of money, even if it means being a less known "boutique" name.

And on that note, all of us who manufacture firearms, especially NFA stuff, really do it for love of the work. The amount of regulation and marketplace difficulty we deal with is nuts. Financial outfits shun us, insurance companies don't want to cover us. That's part of the high cost of these things. Our renewal for liability insurance just came up, they tried to hammer us for 3.6 times last year's already high premium while reducing coverage, despite zero claims ever. We found another company, but it was still a 58% increase from 2022.

 

[mavracer]

I have no experience with the T9k, but a 1.5x5", 3 baffle can with a 9mm bore size I promise will have a healthy bark on a 5.56 or .308 host. There's just only so much that can be done with so little volume. Not that it won't be helpful with blast, flash and overpressure, but just have realistic expectations, know that with 5.56 it's probably gonna be similar to an unsuppressed small caliber pistol.

Imagine that @machVshooter nails it.
It had a relatively deep tone so IMHO on my 12.5" 5.56 it's close to the sound of my 45 Colt lever. Definitely not safe but not painful, I'd much rather shoot my SBR with the T9k with no ear protection than shoot it without the can and just ear plugs.
Part of my reason for the thread is exactly this scenario, I would like to get a dedicated can for my SBR, the T9k also does duty on my 8" 300 Blackout and my 350 Legend and the Ecco 5X5 would definitely improve sound reduction, it's probably close to the perfect balance of sound reduction and portability for a 12-16" 5.56 gasser.
Hindsight being what it is between the Torrent owner getting cancelled for a Facebook remark and learning of @MachIVshooter and Ecco Machine given the choice today the 5X5 would be a no brainer.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

if anybody ever looks at this firearm's factory suppressor they would fully understand why this is so effective and really almost Hollywood quiet. The system has a massive internal volume using a reflex/ internal/baffle . It is extremely quiet suppressor


here is the barrel


the holes can be plugged via a setscrew (early versions, was threaded) to tune to a certain type of ammo such as super sonic and subs. One would plug the holes for subs and remove to cause 115grs to be subsonic.

now to look at the suppressor

 

[MachIVshooter]

if anybody ever looks at this firearm's factory suppressor they would fully understand why this is so effective and really almost Hollywood quiet. The system has a massive internal volume using a reflex/ internal/baffle . It is extremely quiet suppressor
https://hk-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/1-MP5SDA2-RIGHT-JULY-20161.jpg

here is the barrel
https://hkparts.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/IMG_2001-scaled.jpg

the holes can be plugged via a setscrew (early versions, was threaded) to tune to a certain type of ammo such as super sonic and subs. One would plug the holes for subs and remove to cause 115grs to be subsonic.

now to look at the suppressor
https://dockeryarmory.com/mp5sd1/06-2-mp5sd-suppressor-internals-01/

With the SD or any true integral, we have to consider the whole system. If you take away the ported barrels that make use of the expansion chamber, you will have (at best) a can that performs similarly to a muzzle mounted suppressor of similar size to the forward portion of the integral.

Our Susurrus, for example, is basically our 9" Furtivus model inside a 1.5" tube (not exactly the same, but close) that extends back to the receiver. It is the heavily ported barrels with a huge expansion chamber over the barrels that makes them so effective; by the time the gasses of a .308 get to the actual core, they've been reduced to .300 blk levels.

Where semi autos are concerned, it's often even more than that, with additional things done to retard the action opening and sometimes even measures to quiet the action noise itself. As noted, the MP5SD porting serves not only to make use of an expansion chamber for pre-core pressure reduction, but also to bleed off enough pressure that standard ball ammo becomes subsonic. The MP5 supressor by itself, if it were screwed onto an unported host weapon, would not be very impressive. Same with the Welrod.

Sometimes semi auto hosts also get slide/bolt locking features for maximum quiet when semi auto function is not as important.

 

[mavracer]

if anybody ever looks at this firearm's factory suppressor they would fully understand why this is so effective and really almost Hollywood quiet. The system has a massive internal volume using a reflex/ internal/baffle . It is extremely quiet suppressor

The MP5 is also a delayed roller gun so it limits "port pop". I had one of the 9mm ruger chargers and with a straight blowback you're in the same boat as you are with a DI gun you can get 120 at the muzzle but you'll still have 130 at the ear.
I've got a Gemtech ONE that's Hollywood quiet on my Ruger American 300 Blackout with subs, put it on my 10.5" 300 Blackout AR with subs that cycle and it's not Hollywood anymore.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

yes, to everything posted so far but the point I was attempting is that HK increased the volume greatly in their design. Sorry but I it took me hours to correct and respond because being retired the freaking interruptions are UNREAL. example is that I just got done redoing plumbing on the kitchen sink between the original posting and trying to edit my post so one reading could see photos vs running to a differing website.
Another example is Angstadt Arms in their Vanquish ( baffle less ) setup which honestly is borrowed from a TM that the US Army printed in the 1960's era that really is from some where else. I don't know whom to credit but my point is volume is just as important as baffle to disrupt the gasses and their ability to contain the gases. I'm I a suppressor expert NO I'm a novice but I find designs no matter the era interesting.




The Other aspect I'm attempting at is I'M ALMOST positive that MachIVshooter could use a existing system (suppressor) similar to increase a existing volume by drilling ports threading a barrel and creating a mount that increases the volume ( I think the descriptive term would be a reflex mount to a existing suppressor ???) . Now is it feasible IDK, would BATFE lose their Minds and say it's now a new "can" IDK but very likely so. if it makes sense, benefits the populace, is desirable I have ABSOLUTE FAITH in the US Governments bureaucracy to work against progress, and the ability to exercise ones right given by God. And no I'm not anti-government but do believe that certain agencies should be held accountable. (sorry about drifting on the last part, just every time a person attempts to get to a desirable objective someone attempts to block it) . Trying to get back to topic CYCLIC noise will always be there. outside of making it a single shot or a bolt action. Which is why I really like how MachIVshooter address his decibel rating he simply states XX reduction. This displays a understanding that each host will produce differing decibels in the actioning. Almost forgot to include the supersonic crack of the round.

 

[12Bravo20]

Integral suppressors will be quiter than muzzle mounted for the reason already stated, there is more room/volume for the hot gases to expand and cool. The two quietest firearms I have experience with is the De Lisle and Weld Rod. Both are bolt actions. The integral suppressed Swedish K is about the same as the integral suppressed HK in my experience. Outside of 22LR, all semi auto firearms will be louder as MachIVshooter has explained.

We still used ear plugs when training with suppressed weapons. Yes they are quieter than unsuppressed but shooting for hours will still effect your ears/hearing even suppressed.

 

[mavracer]

As OP drift away lol.
I like the idea of reflex cans and was looking at an AB suppressor at my local dealer the other day. The OSS that's on my 308 and 6mm Creed are a modular reflex can the back 1/2 adds less than 3" to the OAL so it's barely longer than many muzzle brakes. This is my 16" 308 handguard is 12"