Sometimes even 22 semi autos have pretty nasty port pop. Between that and the fact that suppressing a semi 22 blows a ton of crap into the action I hardly ever put the cans on the semi auto rifles and they live on the bolt guns.
Loud suppressors
- Thread starter mavracer
- Start date
MachIVshooter
Member
Yes, sadly, they do. Adding length to a suppressor us a no-no. It's really stupid and forces us to get very creative on sone mount conversions, but themselves the rules. Can't add length, can't change caliber, can't replace tube/primary tube segment bearing the engraving.
And on that note, reflex/OTB designs are a far cry from integrals. When we'll designed, a short-ish reflex chamber can net some improvement, but they are never as effective as the same amount of can forward of muzzle. Part of that is due to much of the space being occupied by a mount that has to sleeve the barrel (the ops Inc cans do better here, no internal sleeve, seal on a part set back on the barrel itself), but a big issue is getting high pressure, supersonic gasses to do a 180 and make use of the chamber.
I played with reflex designs a bit, including crazy integrated muzzle devices with angled porting at the roots of radiused helical cuts to drive gasses rearward. At the end of the day they added too much weight and manufacturing complexity for the minimal gains we saw, and also precluded many host weapons. A 7" muzzle mounted can works about the same as a 9" reflex suppressor set ~3" back on the barrel.
Sadly, the Kel Tec CP33 is one of those with obnoxious port pop. Really unfortunate, because otherwise they'd be really neat hosts, especially as folding stock mini PDW type SBRs.
Then there's the CMR-30, which is also pretty neat, like a poor man's MP7 when SBRd, and the port noise isn't horrible. But the gas is. They'll literally make your eyes water and nose burn within half a magazine.
I have a braced charger with a binary trigger it's a ton of fun, I usually just run it like it is with the old DPMS linear comp but I have a little Tac Sol Aeris that I've run on it and it's not bad with CCI standard velocity. Wonder if I played with some different ammo how quiet it'd get, maybe one of the 45gr loads.
MachIVshooter
Member
I've had good luck with the American Eagle 45 gr suppressor subsonic. Enough "oomph" to cycle all the semi autos I own, but stays subsonic out of rifle barrels. And it's not horribly expensive.
There are some things you can do to quiet the action of a 10/22 as well. Pretty well all gonna be wear items like polymer or neoprene buffers and bumpers, but it's doable. Never gonna be bolt action quiet, but less clacky.
Suppressed .22s are always a favorite. I really enjoy many of our other hosts, too, and some, like the .25-20 and .32-20 with subsonic loads, are just as quiet with slightly larger cans. But definitely not as cheap to shoot, even with handloading.
I bet my 32/20 Marlin is pretty quiet without a can. I've shot my bolt 300 Blackout with a 208gr A Max loaded with Unique and it's definitely Hollywood quiet. I love when you can hear the bullet hit paper.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
The quietest setup I have is a ar15 mk9 Frankenstein 9mm which I had the barrel cut back to 3.5" re-threaded to 5/8-24 with a Yankee Hill wraith 45 XL ( 8.5" length , 1.6" ish dia weighing 11 oz) that I bought years ago. To the shooter's ear it does have port noise as well as cyclic, but I consider it to be a success as really it never will be hollywood unless I lock the bolt.
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Yeah that's a lot of volume for a 9mm, from my experience with 22 cans on rifles there's a diminishing return once you get to "enough" volume. My little Tac Sol Aeris is a 1x3" 3 baffle can on a rifle with standard velocity it's not a lot louder maybe 1-2 Db than my relatively giant Griffin Optimus Micro which is a 1.2X5.2" 5 baffle can it's hard to say for sure I don't have a meter and really haven tried it side by side, but you put the Aeris on a pistol (as I intended when I got it) it's prolly 8-10 Db louder and very obvious to my ear.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
@mavracer LOL yep and would probably still be effective on a 45 AR build as well, too bad they discontinued that exact suppressor. Although the 3.5" barrel did my objective of making factory slightly below supersonic. But like you I don't have a meter. so I can't actually measure the decibel of with and without to say exactly how much it reduces.
Speaking of Kel-Tec pistols. For those that own a PRM30 do NOT try to run it suppressed. The PMR will pretty much self destruct when used with a suppressor.
A few guys over on the Kel-Tec Owner Group forum have had custom 16" barrels made for they CP33 pistols which has worked out well for them. I missed getting in on the custom barrels
The CP33 and CMR30 both make a nice SBR. IF I decide to get a rimfire can it will be for my CP33 and CMR30.
A few guys over on the Kel-Tec Owner Group forum have had custom 16" barrels made for they CP33 pistols which has worked out well for them. I missed getting in on the custom barrels
The CP33 and CMR30 both make a nice SBR. IF I decide to get a rimfire can it will be for my CP33 and CMR30.
Ultimately it's my ear that's the final judge anyway lol.
Wonder if they'd survive one of OSS/Huxwerx flow thru cans. They certainly work good on my big gassy AR10s.
Rimfire cans are where it's at IMHO.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
then again if you get your .223 /5.56mm subsonic, then at that point a .22 Rimfire is just as effective.
But although I don't own a rimfire suppressor, yes agree the greatest drop is in the rimfire crowd
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I have been around 3 guns with suppressors. 1st time was a fellow who just got it. He was shooting an AR. He was disappointed at the sound. He thought he should only hear the action. It sounded like an air rifle. Second time was a guy who was shooting i could hear the bullets whizzing down range only. Not sure what he was shooting. I was at the 300 yard benches about 50 yards away from where he was. The last time. There was a guy with a AR 223 he claimed loaded at 4000 FPS. His was loud enough you needed ear pro. I like sound forwarders. Out of respect for folks at the bench next to me. To stop the percussion. I been next to guys using a bird cage. Not fun. I just ordered a muzzle break for my AR 7.62X39 with a blast can. I had a linear comp on it. I didn't like how it didn't reduce jump vs the bird cage. Im hoping it's a decent comprise. After i get the new one timed. I plan to mark somehow where it goes back after cleaning. It should save time not to re-zero.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
When i shoot CCI standard vel in my old 22's with the long barrels. It's like having a suppressor on them.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
LMAO ...... ok ... .220Swift/.22-250 territory with a .223/5.556 while I may not have a decibel meter I do have chronographs. And my state borders Missouri .........
CoalCrackerAl
Member
Yeah i was thinking to myself ok. He was an ass too. I didn't like his attitude at all.
kopcicle
Member
Remember these? Once upon a time I tried to import the design and manufacture these in the states.
The whole patent, license, goodwill, all, went surprisingly well. However, it ended with the patent holders telling me "Good luck".
Had manufacturing space from a previous project. Had machines from previous projects.
Had borrowed technology as well as a wealth of experience and process in house.
Then the fun starts.
Upgrade FFL.
BATFE wants and inspection. We were building a variation of this...
Curiously, not a problem what was a problem was the "design" was imported therefore a different license class.
Landlord finds out from somewhere that we had the BATFE on property. We get the boot.
Insurance finds out there is an FFL license involved and not only instantly dropped and balance refunded but sued for breach of contract and misrepresentation.
Within hours of being evicted the BATFE declines the paperwork on the specific model we wanted to build.
Minutes later a federal cease and desist is posted at my home address concerning FFL activities.
Epilog
BATFE backed off when I didn't renew my FFL.
Offshore partners reminded me of their last words.
Insurance company was countersued. We won.
Landlord was sued. We won.
In subsequent years I've greeted warrantless LEO at my various shops, businesses, and home, with a friendly "Have a warrant?" Only once did this degenerate into a " If you have nothing to hide , what's the problem?" . Al these visits hinted at or openly accused me of illegal manufacturing.
I no longer own anything NFA related. It just isn't worth the loss of several days in interrogation, confiscation, threatened litigation, harassment, accusations, and implications that I have to go through every time I am found in possession of an NFA item. Where I live it just isn't worth it.
Aside from the photo above I have several working designs that I can assemble for reasonable materials and manufacturing costs.
Property completely divorced from my personal living space.
Incorporate as LLC.
Find an umbrella policy that does not specifically exclude FFL related activities.
At the very least invest in dedicated manual machines, jigs, welders, assort bench tools.
Create a separate "dealer" so I don't have to babysit sold inventory for a year plus.
Be prepared to go in the hole for 3-5 years.
I can design a folded gas path, semi-reflex, partial flow through (whatever the hell that means) suppressor with top tier metallurgy (again whatever the hell that means) at or near 140Db, on manual machines with manual welding, for $400 give or take, in materials and labor.
I'd have to sell for $1000 just to break even, even if I sold as many as 1,000 in the first year because the cost of doing business never decreases with volume.
So having some small experience in how it can all go wrong I have some appreciation of what it takes to get it right.
@MachIVshooter best wishes and keep getting it right.
I have see a lot of suppressors used at the range & not one of them are quiet enough to shoot without hearing protection. (the only exception to that is a .22lr) A .22lr is almost quiet enough to shoot without hearing protection to start with so a suppressor is not doing much.
The suppressors are not worth the money to me.
The suppressors are not worth the money to me.
MachIVshooter
Member
It's not a backpressure issue with the PMR-30, it's a matter of mass. Their "hyrbid" blowback system on that is nothing more than a floating barrel, the only thing keeping the breech closed and retarding the action is the friction of the case in the chamber. When you put a can on it, even a 2 ounce one (done it), the increased inertia of the barrel & can assembly causes them to act like straight blowbacks. Slide velocity goes way up, and they batter the takedown pin and buffer until the pin snaps.
@kopcicle
That sounds awful!
We've always been very up-front about what we're doing for that reason. Of course it makes it harder to find insurance companies and financial institutions who will sign us, but prevents that kind of headache and heartache later on. We did have a card processing outfit that was supposedly 2A friendly (Blue Dog/Fortis) screw with us, and we dropped them like a hot rock. They tried to claim breach of contract and assess mountains of fees, but once we told them our attorney had been over everything and they were out of line, "see you in court", they backed off quick.
We don't have to worry about eviction, the shop is on our acreage.
Oh crap I had the little 5.56 in my head not the 22 Mag pistol.
And at the opposite end of that, any optic that uses the RMR footprint or similar size is too heavy and will slow the slide down and keep the pistol from cycling properly. I tried an aluminum mount with a Swampfox Kingslayer on my PMR and it was too heavy. The Kingslayer weighs 1.4 ounces and the mount weighed 0.8 ounces and that total was too much. The pistol would stop functioning after just 4 magazines. I ended up going with a polymer mount and the Sig Romeo Zero with a total weight of 0.65 ounces and the pistol functions 100% no matter how dirty.
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MachIVshooter
Member
The PLR-16 runs just fine with a can. Or at least ours does.
I really wish the PMR could be suppressed, but unless a new super-alloy comes along that allows us to make a sub-one ounce can, that's just not going to happen. Not that the 5.7x28 guns aren't fun, but one helluva lot more expensive to plink with!
Gordon
Member
Here is a friend of mine in Italy, he asks "you call that a suppressor" ?
I even looked at PMR 30 when I was contemplating a 5.7 or 22 Mag pistol for exactly that simply because my SiCo Spectre was rated for it ultimately I decided just to get another 9mm pistol can since I already reload 9mm and 147gr subs are an easy button.
