Love Glocks, hate the company

[Dr.Zubrato]

After many years of shooting, fawning over, and drinking the Glock kool aid, I'm not sure I'd like to support their business any longer.
Why, you ask?
Glock as a company is completely stale, with zero innovation, or insight into the firearms community, and is usually more than a few years late to any party they've ever considered.

For how many years have customers been begging for a glock oem carbine, or a platform in 223 rem, or a single stack 9mm? Instead we get Gen4 recalls, 45 GAP, worse extractor designs, and a .380 no one asked for.
Not to mention the removable grip adjustments, which came entirely too late to the game. By the time they came out with these grip changes, anyone who had considered glock as a pistol, but didn't find it comfortable already bought a different gun, and in my experience anyone who liked glocks by then, considered it a gimmick and never changed out the grip, myself included. Most glock shooters I know would purchase a Gen3 over a Gen4 anyday of the week.

The next most successful thing Glock as a company was able to achieve is to defend their likeness in court, by hounding down any company producing any pistol or toy in their likeness from airsoft to .22lr, which is also a pain in the rear for anyone looking for a practice pistol for when they can't hit the range, or would like to practice Force on Force scenarios with something that mimics their carry weapon.

Personally I love my glocks, and I'm going to keep them for several reasons, including out of the box reliability, a great stock trigger compared to the market (looking at you M&P), great factory magazines, and the fact I already own a few.
But unless Glock changes their tune right quick, I'm looking for another company that can respond to the needs of their constituents, and of the marketplace as a whole.

So here's my question, how do you feel as shooters, and glock owners?
Do you think Glock's mis-steps as a company have put enough of a dent in their image of Perfection for you to consider other similar polymer wonder pistols?

 

[Davek1977]

I'd rather have company do one thing and do it well, as opposed to say Kel-Tec, an "innovator" who seems to have trouble getting products past the "vaporware" stage. Sometimes, diversification of one's product lines means overall quality suffers as a result. I have no issue with Glock doing what it knows how to do.

 

[Catshooter]

Well, Gaston is over 80 years old. Wouldn't you think his innovative days are behind him?

Besides, you just complained about 90% or more of the worlds companies. Almost all of them suffer heavily from NIHS (Not Invented Here Syndrome).

In some very important ways (to me anyway) they have no real competition. Try getting spare parts for most any other firearm.

You can cut yourself off from them if you'd like. It's still a semi-free country.


Cat

 

[tarosean]

Ive long viewed them as not being very innovative at all, and rested on their laurels far too long. Only really choosing to lengthen a little here and shortening a little there. Never, really never stepping away from the original design. With that said, for the most part that is a good thing. That old saying "Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind.

I have no problem with them never offering a carbine or other stuff as they are renowned for their 9mm pistols. However, in order to increase profits, they switched to MIM. Soon after, the revamping of 40S&W models (Gen4) cause a ripple through their most popular product line. (9mm's) That is the inexcusable IMO...

Eventually someone will mention that LEO and MIL is their primary customer and don't really care what John Q Public has to say. I would guess that the American public actually buys more handguns than those "bread and butter" agencies though.

 

[rskent]

a .380 no one asked for

I’m sorry that Glock didn't make the pistol you wanted. They made one for me instead. A few years down the road I think you may see the G42 was a good idea for them. Maybe not for you, but for a lot of us.
Lets let the production numbers tell the story. You may be right, I might be wrong. But it seems like around here they are very popular.

Personally I will wait to pick one up until they have been beta tested and have better aftermarket support. I did see a set of night sights for the G42. So the aftermarket seems to be ramping up pretty well.

 

[jgiehl]

I think they should dive into the 1911's personally.
But then that's not very innovative either.
Just me.

 

[Nordeste]

I partially agree. I say partially because I see the .380 as a correct decision, however, I also would have liked to see some other innovations. Apart from those already mentioned, it wouldn't hurt that they offered a model with a flip-down manual safety (S&W did, and it didn't hurt, did it?).

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I dunno. At no point have I ever found myself "begging for a glock oem carbine, or a platform in 223 rem, or a single stack 9mm". The Nano is probably better than the fantasized single stack nine, and I don't see how the ability to mass produce a plastic handgun for $50/each translates to being able to design and manufacture a quality 5.56/.223. Would it be another AR entry into an already overcrowded market saturated with ARs? Everyone and their dog makes an AR nowadays. Certainly Glock's notoriety would sell a few but enough to secure a spot in the market? Or should they create a brand new design from the ground up, with the associated millions of dollars in R&D? How would that scratch made design fare when forced to compete against the ARs and SCARs of the world?

As for Gaston, he's a fossil but even in his youth he was not a designer. So far as I know the only hand he had in the creation of the gun that bears his name was signing the checks written to the guys that did invent it. Nothing about the gun was innovative although it did combine several established elements together. Not a knock on Glock, just pointing out that Gaston didn't design it and it never would have existed without JM Browning.

But since Glocks were "Perfection" right out the box, you can't knock them for not inventing something even perfecter! Well, except the 2nd gen of perfection. Or the third one. Or the fourth...

 

[GLOOB]

I don't like change. I wish the Gen 4 had never been made.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I just "discovered" Glock pistols in my return to shooting sports and hand gunning last Summer.....before that? Only all metal pistols for me. I was militant that the entire "Glock" thing was a joke.

Shot every pistol I could get my hands on via borrowing, buying, or renting with the idea of picking the ones that performed the best inherently and right out of the box. That was a Glock 19 followed by a Beretta Px4. I never wanted a .380 - didn't need one. My Wife could not get on with the other stuff we shot and the G42 did not exist.

I got her to shoot one and *Bam* the Glock 42 is her single best pistol...since she has been working with it ('cause she loves it and it fits her like a glove) her skills are leaping forward weekly as is her confidence and ability to defend herself if need be.

I dunno if Glock is stale but I don;t care. They are pioneers of a particular style of pistol and mindset and in that, they have earned their place in history. If othrs need constant innovation and endless more doodads to be loyal to their niche' I'm cool with that. I think they are the coolest thing since sliced bread.

Maybe no one wanted a .380 Glock but they sure are hard to find due to the number of folks buying them *right* off the truck. I think Glock is still innovative, just maybe not "all things to all people all the time" as many Glock-O-Philes originally intended or desired.

VooDoo

 

[Hometeached1]

The biggest thing I hate about Glock is the fanboys, but that's for another day.

I do wish they had metal sights on their pistols from the factory and the Glock perfection is kind of annoying. As far as the G42 I wish it had come out two years ago, because it is exactly what the pistol we were looking for my mom, since her arthritis makes it hard to rack a slide no matter what technique she uses.

 

[ritepath]

I bought a glock once...


Good news is there are plenty of great companies to buy products from. Of course I don't own an Iphone either...

 

[Lucky Derby]

If Glock is "Perfection", why are they on generation 4?
The only Glock in my home is a Gen1 17, and it belongs to my son.
Honestly, up until the Gen4, I thought they really had something good. Not really for me, but I saw the attraction. Gen4 is just way too gimicky. For the most part though, Glocks work, and work well.
As far as the G42, I think it is the smartest thing they have done since they introduced the G26/27. The G42 will be a strong seller. And if they use it as a stepping stone for a single stack 9mm, that gun will sell very well too.
A companion carbine would be nice, but I don't know if people are really clamoring for one. Ruger made the PC9 & PC40 Carbines as companions to their pistols and they never sold all that well. Marlin made the Camp 9 and Camp 45 Carbines as companions to the S&W 59 Series and 1911 pistols. Again, never sold that well.

 

[tarosean]

and a .380 no one asked for.

You realize that the little 380's out sell everything on the market? Ruger pushes an astonishing amount of the little pocket pistols out the door.. Why wouldn't you want to go after that slice of the pie?

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

...and on that note, don't we think releasing a single stack .380 when all the Fan Boyz were screaming bloody murder that *no one* is gonna buy that is innovation?

Marketing innovation and knowing more about what your fan base wants even more than your fan base is brilliant, IMO. Someone at Glock is seriously on the ball on the G42.

VooDoo

 

[C0untZer0]

They were very late to the 380 party.

I think they're running very very late to the single stack 9mm party - but more the better for the companies that have been selling their slim nines for the past few years.

The 9mm carbine choices are pretty slim right now, Hi-Point and Taurus, AR-15 variants and a super expensive Tavor w/conversion kit, but I'm not going to hate Glock because they didn't create a carbine.

I think I'd rather have a Ruger-made carbine than a Glock anyway, so I'll save my hate for Ruger because not only did those bastards stop production of the PC9 - they never developed a model with a picatiny rail !

I'll give some hate to Marlin while I'm at it for the same thing.

 

[klcmschlesinger]

Their model works....

I think (and I restate, "think") that Glock does their one thing very well. Yes they are late on innovation, changeable grips, 380, etc. but that is also part of their charm. They don't have to move fast or change big in order to keep their base. Now on another note, they need to keep moving forward, but small baby steps is sometimes best for companies that start out with huge successes.
I sometime would compare them to Apple ( and I know someone will call me an idiot for this reference, but I really don't care ). The IPhone is often a release or two behind it's competitors with inovation (better camera, bigger screen, 4G), but people wait and relish the opportunity to own one, Glock seems to be the same way. Keep your followers on edge and full of anticipation with even small changes, and they seem to be even more dedicated to your products.

 

[ultratec1]

I use to hate Glocks, with an utter passion. Then one day I shot one and realized that it was just what it was designed as..... a combat handgun. Since then I now have a 17L, 21 and a 20. The thing that I will complain about when it comes to Glock is the fact that they can not get factory barrels to shoot worth a crap and the unsupported barrels are completely un-sat. Other than that, I can get spare parts as easy if not easier then buying a bag of oranges.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

They were very late to the 380 party.

Late to the American .380 party but sometimes waiting and planning a spectacular entry is a better/innovative idea. Judging by the number of .380 sales here locally and the lack of .380 ammunition (due to the fact that droves of new/aspiring CCL folks are shooting and buying .380's) and the number of Glock 42's on order and the sales of Glock in general I'd say the "perception" is that Glock is late to the party. But the reality (maybe) is that they have been studying the market very carefully and taking their time with the next generation of Glock pistols.

Locally, and I know that doesn't mean everywhere, Glocks are rising in popularity again...in .380 sales they have shut down S&W Bodyguard and the Ruger LCP and become the number one sold and requested .380 in a matter of months. Just shooting my Wife's gun and meeting with folks at the range who have watched her progress the last year we have demonstrated and allowed them to borrow our G42.

They handle it, they shoot it for 6X, they order one or get in line. I'd say (locally) that's pretty indicative of innovation. Late to the party or not, The Glock 42 is on it's way to becoming the "go to .380" for a rising number of people. The local range presented us with a range card worth almost $100 in free range time because of all the guns we have sold for them by demonstration or allowing others to handle and try our guns at range time.

I think a late to the party single stack Glock 9mm will literally re invent Glock dominance of the market. I don't think Glock is washed up - I think they are settling in for a second wind as the next generation of Glock engineering steps up to bat. For the record, I am not a Glock "Fan Boy" any more than I am a Beretta or S&W fan boy...I think Glock fills it's niche' very well and will continue to do that for quite some time. Perfection? Hardly. But very, very good at what they do, no doubt.
VooDoo

 

[MagnumDweeb]

I own Glocks but I only like Gen 1s and Gen2s. Everything else is of no interest to me when it comes from Glock. Good for them but I'm not a "fan" or a follower. I thought about getting a Ruger SR40 for a full sized .40 (own a Glock 23) and then ended up with a used Gen 2 for cheaper with three service mags. I'm a Ruger fan and own a bunch of their revolvers and I own one SR9 and couple P90s (sold the P345). But then I also own a couple Sigs, a few 1911s, etc. etc. etc..

If Glock doesn't want to fill a niche then that's on them. Show them how much you aren't happy with them by buying from their competition and sending them a polite letter showing why you didn't buy another one of their products. If they got a million letters like that a year. I'd have to think they'd change their way of doing things.

 

[Wishoot]

I don't think Glock really cares. They have a successful business model and have stuck to it for many years. I don't own Glocks anymore, but they produce a quality product that sells well.

 

[Strahley]

I don't want a Glock revolver, AR, 1911, manual safety, etc. A pistol caliber carbine that uses their current magazines would be cool, but it would just be a toy for me. My 300 BLK AR fills that niche for me

I don't want Glock to be "more innovative" and follow everybody else. I want them to do what they do well and stick to that. Gen 2 or Gen 3 models for me. If somebody gave me a free Gen 4 I'd trade it for a 2 or 3

I love that I can hop on Midway and buy everything short of a new frame for a Glock. Aside from basic 1911s, you just don't have that option these days

 

[Tirod]

The concern is pretty much answered by those who delved into why no 9mm single stack seems to be coming out.

Glock isn't into the fashion gun business much, they made a .380 to sell as a BUG for LEO's. They are at 100% capacity, it would take more capital investment to make more guns, and all the ones being speculated on are not large volume sellers - they are boutique applications with no broad based support. IE, no contracts from major organizations, here or back home.

We don't get a 9mm single stack because nobody needs 100,000 of them. We go to SIG, Kahr, Kimber, etc for the small lot guns. There is a "1911 Glock" on the market, now, too, from Rock River, and sales aren't making headlines much.

Whether Gaston is 80 or not, he's not likely running the business day to day, or even making the long term strategic decisions much now if at all. That's been delegated to others who can carry forward in the future when he's no longer here. I don't see the Glock company making poor decisions about turning the company into a long term winner, they were originally cabinet hardware makers to begin with. The administration has probably been institutionalized to keep the company going so that no one individual is a key player that could cause the company to collapse in their absence. Not the way business works, especially in the European model.

So, I has nothing to do with Gaston, who may very well like to see some of these come about, but recognizes that when marketing and accounting predict low to no profit based on the volume necessary for their production methods, it's not going to happen.

He could very well being enjoying retirement and shooting a Wilson Combat 1911 for all we know.

 

[burk]

My first pistol was a Glock 23 gen one. I carried it for years with no issues. I also carried the 36 as I became less and less a fan of the .40. But then I became a victim of Gun Porn. After purchasing several Kimbers (great guns by the way) I picked up a gen3 19 used in 08 before the election because I wanted one hi-cap nine around the house in case we elected a gun banner.

Surprisingly and despite the fact I shot my Kimbers excellent, I discovered that I shot my 19 at combat ranges as good or better. I since have sold my Kimbers and become a Tupperware fan boy. I dallied with the M&P but couldn't get past the trigger (even with work) and the cheapness of some of the parts (safety-mags). My Glocks shoot as good as my purdy 1911's, they don't look as nice on the cover of magazines, cost A LOT LESS, but they work. And gone are 400 rounds worth of break in, 30 minute cleaning sessions, and worrying about carrying in humid or cold conditions (I fly fish).

Glock does what they do well, like others I wish they made a single stack nine to replace my LC9. But they don't make a bad gun, have great customer support, very competitive aftermarket suppliers, and great availability of holsters and accessories. But most of all they go boom and hit what I point them at.

 

[marb4]

I'd rather have company do one thing and do it well, as opposed to say Kel-Tec, an "innovator" who seems to have trouble getting products past the "vaporware" stage. Sometimes, diversification of one's product lines means overall quality suffers as a result. I have no issue with Glock doing what it knows how to do.

Well said.