Machine gun lease

[12Bravo20]

No, ignore that video. Despite his "this is not clickbait"......it is.
ATF deleted the FAQ he refers to a day after it was posted.....almost two months ago.

The ATF even admitted right away that the FAQ was wrong and never should have been changed like it was.

 

[AlexanderA]

I am surprised that unscrupulous individuals haven't sold rights to be added onto their trust. Think, $2500 per...people get to co-own a machine gun without the full cost of buying one. Like a NFA time share.

Let's say 50 or 100 people bought into this, and are now listed on the trust. How do you allocate the times that each of them could have possession? The actual times available would be so minimal that it would hardly be worth the investment. And who would do the scheduling? But a clever scam? Maybe.

 

[AlexanderA]

Even the M3A1 SMG was heavy for what it was when you had to carry it all of the time. The M3 and M3A1 weigh 8 pounds empty. Now add the metal magazines loaded with 30 rounds of 45ACP and the weight starts to add up. I was also issued the M3A1.

I have an M3, and you are right. I hadn't taken it out of the safe for a while, and when I went to show it to some visiting family members, I was surprised as to how heavy it was. (I think it's more my advancing age than the gun itself.)

Still, the Thompson is worse in the weight department. (That was my thinking years ago when I sold my Thompson but kept the M3.)

 

[GE-Mini-Gun]

Let's say 50 or 100 people bought into this, and are now listed on the trust. How do you allocate the times that each of them could have possession? The actual times available would be so minimal that it would hardly be worth the investment. And who would do the scheduling? But a clever scam? Maybe.

Not at all, I know a couple guys that did just that...pulled their money and purchased a Colt M16 10+ years ago. All live within about 10-20 miles of each other and shoot on the one guys property. I never really talked to them about how they "divvy up" the "ownership" of it. One other thing that comes to mind...for me; I only had two places to shoot, one an hour the other two. I shot them half dozen or more times per year, maybe couple hundred rounds through each...I'm just not a volume shooter...6 or so magazines and I'm done. I sold them last year for some crazy money (as most know) and do not miss them...I did love shooting them and really loved taking people for their first time...the smile and enjoyment were worht what I paid for them.

 

[dogtown tom]

Let's say 50 or 100 people bought into this, and are now listed on the trust. How do you allocate the times that each of them could have possession? The actual times available would be so minimal that it would hardly be worth the investment. And who would do the scheduling? But a clever scam? Maybe.

No different than a timeshare condo at Copper Mtn.

 

[CapnMac]

I’m kind of surprised to hear all the folks that don’t enjoy shooting them.

That may be a bit of a misreading of it.
One of the issues with a number of FA weapons is that they are not comfortable to shoot.
Does not necessarily mean they are not "fun," but that fun fades.

The Sterling SMG is a fun gun to run, but it empties magazines in the blink of an eye. The 'joy' of loading magazines cuts into the fun time though.
Now, take a MAT-49, that's not a comfortable one sto shoot (at least to me). Empties mags like a Sterling, and doesn't have the common decency to be as easy to load.

An MG-42 can give a person the giggles. But, the hours are the loading machine to have the belts of 8mm wanted to keep the giggles coming cuts into the "fun" after a bit.

The Chauchat is actually fun to run. It has a reasonable rate of fire--in both Lebel and 30-06. But, color me happy to not have to break down that long aluminum barrel sleeve for cleaning to keep that long-recoil monster going. That price threshold is a bit of a bear, too.

Contrast that to the BAR. About the same length, similar ammo--but that beast is super long and heavy and just not much fun. It's ok, set up pretty rigid on a bipod and just punching paper. But, carrying one around--not fun. And, that rifle-style grip is not nice at all. That rifle needed a pistol grip from the get-go.

Bren gun is a fun one, too. Nicely balances on a sling, and comfortable in both 303 and 308 (308 mags are way handier, too). I'd love a Bren. But, I might not enjoy hauling it out of the safe, and lugging to to the ride. Ok, the mags are pretty plentiful, but loading them is loading them.

If I had the fun ones, and a range to shoot them upon, they'd still probably not be the first thing I grab to hone up my skills.

 

[AlexanderA]

Not at all, I know a couple guys that did just that...pulled their money and purchased a Colt M16 10+ years ago.

Sharing a machine gun is like sharing a woman. It might be alluring at first, but it never turns out well.

 

[MachIVshooter]

We have several post samples we use to torture test cans and entertain people. When we're not doing one of those two things, they collect dust.

For most, especially those who've never used one, it's the allure of the forbidden fruit. And it's a rush the first time for sure. After that, though, you'll never realize the excitement again.

I enjoy hitting the targets and doing so with minimal noise, so most of my recreational shooting is with suppressed pistols and manual action rifles. Even if someone else were buying the ammo and loading the magazines, I'd rather spend the day with my suppressed lever and bolt rifles than the M16, the .308 AR machine gun, the AK, the Suomi 9mm or even the closed bolt 10/22.

 

[dogtown tom]

Guy who owns only a semi auto thinks how he can shoot faster via bump stock, various triggers, hooking his thumb through a belt loop, etc.
Guy who owns a machine gun spends his time trying to fire single rounds with the switch set to "auto".

 

[12Bravo20]

@MachIVshooter and @dogtown tom I couldn't agree more with what both of you said.

Most GI's will never use full auto or burst except for very limited circumstances with the M16 family of rifles and carbines. I fired the M16A1 once or twice on full auto while in combat and I never did shoot the M16A2 on burst except a few times on training ranges.

I could get close to a single shot with the M60 and M3A1 but never did it. It was usually a two or three round burst with those. The M2 can easily be fired single shot once you learn the butterfly trigger.

As I stated before, shooting full auto looses its allure pretty quickly even when Uncle is providing all of the ammo. Plus carrying the M249, M60 or M240 makes you a priority target for the enemy, IE they will shoot at you first and with the most ammo to take you out. The Army always liked sticking us skinny guys with the M60 for this reason, we made smaller targets. I was 5'10" and 128 pounds during Desert Storm. Between all of my gear (as a combat engineer) and the M60. I was force to carry more than my own body weight.

 

[MachIVshooter]

@MachIVshooter and @dogtown tom I couldn't agree more with what both of you said.
I could get close to a single shot with the M60 and M3A1 but never did it. It was usually a two or three round burst with those. The M2 can easily be fired single shot once you learn the butterfly trigger.

Gotta have a quick finger!

Our AK postie has the rate reducer, it's pretty easy to single. But anything with a cyclic rate over 600 or so, I can't get single shots out reliably

@MachIVshooter and @dogtown tom I was 5'10" and 128 pounds during Desert Storm. Between all of my gear (as a combat engineer) and the M60. I was force to carry more than my own body weight.

I'm 5'10" as well, but even at 16 I was 170 lbs. I hover right around 200 these days, could stand to get back down in the 185-190 range, but on my frame, I'd probably look like a holocaust survivor at 128. My best condition was when I was regular at the gym in my mid 30s, 192# @ 11% body fat.

At least all that gear meant a "hit" on your silhouette probably had a <50% chance of getting flesh!

 

[12Bravo20]

Yes I am getting slower in my old age

Now the M3A1 was easier to get 2 round burst since it also has a pretty low rate of fire compared to other sub guns.

As far as being small, Yes I made a really thin target when I stood sideways. I was actually only one pound over the bare minimum weight to even be in the Army when I showed up to basic training. I was 120 and the minimum was 119. They could have kicked me out if I would have lost two or more pounds. As it was, I only put 7 pounds on during basic even though I had to eat double helpings of everything at every meal plus the desserts taken from the fat guys. I blazoned to 200 pounds when I was force to quit working which was extremely overweight for my build. I am overweight even at my current 155 pounds. I am skinny with a beer belly.

Here is a photo of me taken two years ago when I squeezed into a pair of my old BDU's. I weighed 145 at that time.

 

[jmorris]

How do you allocate the times that each of them could have possession? The actual times available would be so minimal that it would hardly be worth the investment.

How do time shares work? Make a schedule and start signing up?

My cousin in law co owns an airplane with a number of other people. Plan your use and use your plan…is the method they use.