Mad Max Sawed-Off/Auto-Burglar Shotty …

S.Crockett said:
Those grips all varied even on the original A/Bs and later, “modern” iterations, like the Holland Firearms variant. The linked article below is from 1969. Scroll down to page 36 and check the grip.

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/G1069x.pdf

That said, the grip on Mad Max’s shotty pistol in the original film and Road Warrior was closer to a “bird’s head” style with a grip cap.

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If I wanted to go nuts with mine, it would end up looking like that assuming I wanted to have a way to hold on it.
I have tried pistol grip and birds head grips and a full stock is way better IMO.
 
12Bravo20 said:
The fee/tax to make an AOW or SBS is the same cost of $200 due when you file your Form 1. So it will not matter one bit which you make, it still will cost you $200.

People sometimes get things confused when it comes to making versus transferring an AOW. The fee to make an AOW is $200 (Form 1), the fee to transfer an AOW is $5 (Form 4).
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My understanding at the time was the man wanted a weapon made from a "cut down shotgun" to be form1'ed as a SBS. Didn't matter if it had a full stock, pistol grip, birds head or no stock and attached to an AR like a grenade launcher.
 
You know ... there is this outfit called American Gun Craft www.americanguncraft.com that makes a double barrel , Mad Max looking , 12 gauge handgun ...that requires no FFL and can be shipped directly to your front door ...why , because it is loaded with black powder and a #209 primer ...
Yes it is a muzzle loading double barrel handgun ... but no FFL and shipped right to your door !
I'm still thinking about getting one ... 12 gauge is 12 gauge and they look nice .
Gary
 
N555 said:
My understanding at the time was the man wanted a weapon made from a "cut down shotgun" to be form1'ed as a SBS. Didn't matter if it had a full stock, pistol grip, birds head or no stock and attached to an AR like a grenade launcher.
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Which is correct. I only mentioned the cost difference due to others getting things confused and thinking that it only cost $5 to make an AOW.
 
12Bravo20 said:
I'll just leave the following definitions direct from the ATF. I won't bother arguing with anyone about it.

Any Other Weapon definition: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-does-“any-other-weapon-mean#:~:text=The term "any other weapon,with combination shotgun and rifle



Short Barrel Shogun definition: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guide-identification-firearms-section-4#:~:text=Short Barreled Shotgun&text=Shotgun having a barrel or,than 18 inches in length.



The difference is if the firearm made from a shotgun is designed/built to be concealed then it is an AOW per the ATF
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GarretJ is correct.
Those aren't the definitions in ATF regulations, they are merely a guide to different types of firearms. What you think is the definition is just labeled as "Distinctive characteristics"

The actual definition from https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-II/subchapter-B/part-478/subpart-B

Short-barreled shotgun. A shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length, and any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

To make an AOW, as GarretJ said, you need to find a shotgun receiver that has never been configured as a shotgun. It could be a new receiver or a "Pistol grip only" firearm that expels a shotgun shell........like the Remington TAC14 or Mossberg Shockwave. They are not shotguns because they do not meet the definition of shotgun.
Using them to make an AOW is possible because they were never shotguns.
 
12Bravo20 said:
The fee/tax to make an AOW or SBS is the same cost of $200 due when you file your Form 1. So it will not matter one bit which you make, it still will cost you $200.
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Since ATF doesn't actually see what it is you intend to "make", they have to trust the applicant knows what they are doing. More than one Form 1 has been approved where the maker didn't read or understand the definitions.

If you apply to "make" an AOW, but actually build an SBS........guess what? You have an unregistered SBS.
 
dogtown tom said:
Since ATF doesn't actually see what it is you intend to "make", they have to trust the applicant knows what they are doing. More than one Form 1 has been approved where the maker didn't read or understand the definitions.

If you apply to "make" an AOW, but actually build an SBS........guess what? You have an unregistered SBS.
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Again I was bringing up the cost since others were confused and saying/thinking that the tax for making an AOW was $5.
 
dogtown tom said:
They'll know once they read the form.;)
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That’s right.

I don’t have a blank F-1 in front of me just now, but I’m pretty sure there’s a box on it you fill in to indicate what it is that you’re “making” - in this case a short-barreled shotgun (SBS),” per the definition. Barrels shorter than 18”, OAL shorter than 26”, which is what a Mad-Max type dbl shotty pistol would be if the “donor” weapon it’s made from is a normal dbl shotgun.
 
jmorris said:
I believe he was pointing out that you can buy an AOW and the stamp is $5. If you make the exact same thing yourself and put it on a form 1 vs form 4 it’s $200.
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Yes that is exactly what I was pointing out. It is common for those not familiar with the NFA process and the different forms to get them confused as happened even in this thread.
 
jmorris said:
I believe he was pointing out that you can buy an AOW and the stamp is $5. If you make the exact same thing yourself and put it on a form 1 vs form 4 it’s $200.
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I know.
Again, it's pretty darn obvious what the tax amount is when you fill out the form ....it's literally the very first question on the Form 4 and the Form 1.

If someone believes they can make an AOW for $5 they haven't read that first question.
 
12Bravo20 said:
Yes that is exactly what I was pointing out. It is common for those not familiar with the NFA process and the different forms to get them confused as happened even in this thread.
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Yet all they need to do is read the title of the form:
Form 1 is "Application to Make and Register a Firearm"
Form 4 is "Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm"

If you don't know which form, then read the title of the form.:D
 
12Bravo20 said:
I'll just leave the following definitions direct from the ATF. I won't bother arguing with anyone about it.

Any Other Weapon definition: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-does-“any-other-weapon-mean#:~:text=The term "any other weapon,with combination shotgun and rifle



Short Barrel Shogun definition: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guide-identification-firearms-section-4#:~:text=Short Barreled Shotgun&text=Shotgun having a barrel or,than 18 inches in length.



The difference is if the firearm made from a shotgun is designed/built to be concealed then it is an AOW per the ATF
Click to expand...

@dogtown tom, right or wrong, those are the definitions that the ATF has on THEIR website and also why I include links and quotes. So if that information is wrong then take it up with the ATF.

Yet you want to keep quoting the following

12Bravo20 said:
Again I was bringing up the cost since others were confused and saying/thinking that the tax for making an AOW was $5.
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But again It is what it is. If you have a problem with me then spit it out.
 
12Bravo20 said:
@dogtown tom, right or wrong, those are the definitions that the ATF has on THEIR website and also why I include links and quotes. So if that information is wrong then take it up with the ATF.
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Read post #30.
What you linked to was NOT the definitions of AOW or SBS. Period.
You linked to an ATF FAQ and some ATF publication that is a guide to identifying certain firearms.
In post #30 I linked to the actual definition of an SBS.







But again It is what it is. If you have a problem with me then spit it out.
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I have a problem with posting incorrect information.
You also wrote: "The difference is if the firearm made from a shotgun is designed/built to be concealed then it is an AOW per the ATF"
That's baloney.
 
A couple years back I asked a question about AOW transfer of a Ithaca Model 37 20 gauge "Stakeout " Pistol Grip (with PG in the serial #) "Firearm" I purchased with out a barrel in the 90s from LasVegasPD auction. I knew it WAS an AOL , tho without the barrel the PD transferred it to me as a "firearm" , no federal stamp. I got around after 20+ years to wanting to put on the original 13" barrel ,which I could find then and register it as an AOL which was legal to own in Calif. , at the time.
I really was hard headed to understand Dogtown Tom's explaination of why I could NOT ! How ever eventually I understood that by putting on even an Original 13" barrel on the PG serialized receiver with the factory grip I would be "Making" an SBS and would need to pay the $200 and get the SBS stamp . I settled on an 18" Model 51 3" Deerslayer Barrel on the Ithaca 37 PG 20ga. and put a crutch tip on the end of barrel and a lazer / light under the barrel to use as a aid in walking around in the dark around my camping trailer at remote areas. Made me think about $40 an inch for 5 lousy inch reduction and the legal ramifacations being worth it .Also the greater increase in noise and decrease in effective range. I did buy a 14" Remington 870 pistol really cheaply a couple years ago in 12 Gauge with the "witness protection grip" and my 18" Ithaca works out much better for me in real life so my son has the Remington now.
 
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