scrat
Member
i ordered the black and white one. third from top i believe. I know its going to be small but thats how i intend to start out small. Still doing a lot of reading. Then i have to research where to get the ingredients.
Making blackpowder.
- Thread starter GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
- Start date
- Status
scrat
Member
GOC ohh as far as the coffe. Well im on my second cup so far. kinda just nursing this one.
scrat
Member
ok Im sure a lot of us will have pros and cons on this. For one he did not clump it up then grind it to get a 3F or 2F. Then he did not let it dry for days on end. However here is a good sample video on making black powder from a mortor and pestle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtHKiRdtEGc
Take a look GOC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtHKiRdtEGc
Take a look GOC
GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
Member.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
- Messages
- 1,632
Thank you Scrat. I'm going to mostly use mine for grinding peanuts I guess. Someday though, if I ever needed it, it would be nice to know I had it.
I'll make a deal with you. I won't eat too much and get a bellyache and you don't mess around and blow your ass up....
I'll make a deal with you. I won't eat too much and get a bellyache and you don't mess around and blow your ass up....
scrat
Member
OK GOC i got your message. I called them up and changed my order to the wooden one. The one they had available was the bamboo one #120840. 9.99 Still not a bad deal. Mine is being shipped out today. Thanks for the tip.
All that work he put in with the mortar and pestle and his BP didn't do so well in the test at the end. See all the large sparks in the air? These are large particles of charcoal that were not ground well enough. It's usable powder, but most likely not as good as commercial powder. A good mill makes a huge difference.
You can mill about a 150g batch in the small harbor freight mills. Use buckshot or a handful of hardened lead ball for media.
You can mill about a 150g batch in the small harbor freight mills. Use buckshot or a handful of hardened lead ball for media.
berkmberk1
Member
JCT........
Just to verify........150 GRAMS, correct? About 1.3 lb?
Just to verify........150 GRAMS, correct? About 1.3 lb?
150 grams is .33 lb ( 1 lb is 454 grams ). That's about all you can effectively mill in the Harbor Freight mill, I have one and started with it. It works well enough though and is what I still use for test batches if I try other woods or make different mixes for BP rockets.
Beagle-zebub
Member
I've heard that a meat-grinder can be used. Can anyone comment on this? The Phil's General Store said that you can even use them to make air-float.
zxcvbob
Member
You could use a meat grinder to pulverize the charcoal before milling it, but that's about it. A Corona grain mill would get you a lot closer. I just crunch it up with my hands (wear a dust mask)
You don't need airfloat charcoal anyway when making BP. The course charcoal will soon be airfloat when in the mill with the S and KNO3.
When the mill walls are caked and the BP is caked into big dense chunks, then you know you have good BP and you're mill is working right.
When the mill walls are caked and the BP is caked into big dense chunks, then you know you have good BP and you're mill is working right.
Macmac
Member
the litte details are sticking up their little heads now... All noted in the noggin, and I have this thread marked...
berkmberk1
Member
Excuse the 1.3..........mis-keyed........should have been 1/3......they're right next to each other............
:banghead:
:banghead:berkmberk1
Member
Assuming max 1/3 lb at a time, are the recipes able to be duplicated close enough from batch to batch to make home manufacture practical with one of these mills.....or maybe the two drum model? I shoot, but not enough to be burning pounds of the stuff every month.........heck, I'd probably spend more time making than shooting........
berkmberk1
Member
zxcvbob wrote:
Do you use one of these?
There's a Harbor Freight right down the street from me. I went in there tonite and they had both models. I'll reserve my opinion of them for now, but the display models didn't impress me much......maybe too much handling. Anyway...the lids/caps seemed pretty difficult to install...I couldn't get one on, and I couldn't get the cap off one canister. They look like simple little machines but don't look like they would hold much........
Do you use one of these?
There's a Harbor Freight right down the street from me. I went in there tonite and they had both models. I'll reserve my opinion of them for now, but the display models didn't impress me much......maybe too much handling. Anyway...the lids/caps seemed pretty difficult to install...I couldn't get one on, and I couldn't get the cap off one canister. They look like simple little machines but don't look like they would hold much........
zxcvbob
Member
It's a cheap knockoff of a Lortone tumbler. Seems to work OK. I'm sure a Lortone or a Thumblers would last a lot longer.
I've made two 1/2-pound batches so far.
I've made two 1/2-pound batches so far.
Thought this was funny; description from a manual on making BP, being sold on gunbroker;
*DO-IT-YOURSELF GUNPOWDER COOKBOOK by Don McLean Learn how to make gunpowder from such items as dead cats, whiskey, your living room ceiling, manure and maple syrup with simple hand tools and techniques that have been used for centuries. This is a practical and safe approach to making the oldest propellant/explosive known. For information purposes only. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2, softcover, illus., 80 pp.
I guess if you have some extra dead cats kicking around and you've decided to do away with a ceiling and you have some extra maple syrup you won't be using, you'll be all set
*DO-IT-YOURSELF GUNPOWDER COOKBOOK by Don McLean Learn how to make gunpowder from such items as dead cats, whiskey, your living room ceiling, manure and maple syrup with simple hand tools and techniques that have been used for centuries. This is a practical and safe approach to making the oldest propellant/explosive known. For information purposes only. 5 1/2 x 8 1/2, softcover, illus., 80 pp.
I guess if you have some extra dead cats kicking around and you've decided to do away with a ceiling and you have some extra maple syrup you won't be using, you'll be all set
scrat
Member
mortor and pestle on its way and so is 1lbs of Potassium Nitrate KNO3 99.9% pure. 1/2 way there
jimrbto
Member
66gt350
That book was/is available to download free in pdf format. I did it a long time ago and can't remember the site I was at to do the download. Maybe you can find it if you "Google" the title.
Jim
That book was/is available to download free in pdf format. I did it a long time ago and can't remember the site I was at to do the download. Maybe you can find it if you "Google" the title.
Jim
I would not use a mortal and pestle.
Black powder can be set off by both static electricty and sparks. A tiny piece of metal or impurity could spark causing explosion during grinding.
The risk of an accident is low with proper and safe techniques, but it is always there even if reduced to something small. With a mill you can be removed from the danger zone throughout most of the process.
With a mortar and pestle you will likely lose your hands from burns, and perhaps your eyesight, along with serious burns if you ever have a problem.
Lots of static in the air? Might be your last day of eyesight, so be sure to enjoy the ability to see now!
The individual components are one thing, but actualy combining it in a pestle is a risk I wouldn't decide to routinely take.
The static electricity legend has pretty well been debunked by now; sparks are an issue, however.
Black powder is ignited by heat, not electricity. It is a conductor, not a resistor, and as such will not build up heat when subjected to an electrical charge; it simply passes the electrons through.
However, there is still a danger: if the powder is contaminated with small bits of metal or a resistive material that does heat up when subjected to electricity, that heat buildup could cause ignition of the powder. The bits of metal become, in effect, sparks, such as those given off by a flint scraped on hardened metal.
The use of a mortar must consider whether the scraping motion results in enough friction to heat up the powder locally and thus cause ignition. The mortar and pestle materials certainly play a part in that, as does the speed of the grinding motion.
Black powder is ignited by heat, not electricity. It is a conductor, not a resistor, and as such will not build up heat when subjected to an electrical charge; it simply passes the electrons through.
However, there is still a danger: if the powder is contaminated with small bits of metal or a resistive material that does heat up when subjected to electricity, that heat buildup could cause ignition of the powder. The bits of metal become, in effect, sparks, such as those given off by a flint scraped on hardened metal.
The use of a mortar must consider whether the scraping motion results in enough friction to heat up the powder locally and thus cause ignition. The mortar and pestle materials certainly play a part in that, as does the speed of the grinding motion.
Making BP is no more dangerous than using BP when loading your gun. I've seen first hand, archs from electricity and static generators, that won't set off BP. It's possibly the most stable "explosive" in existence. It's a fuel/oxidizer mix, not a true "explosive" anyway. A mortar filled with BP can burn you, but that's it, you won't have an open air explosion with BP until it hits it's self confinement point, around 500lbs of BP for that.
You should be wearing safety goggles and leather gloves, as you would for any safe lab procedure anyway. People are quick to condemn what they don't understand....
Pyrotechnicians commonly work with far, far more dangerous compositions, flash, whistle, etc...they do explode in open air and are friction, static, and impact sensitive, yet they can be worked with safely and never have accidents if they use common sense and common safety.
You should be wearing safety goggles and leather gloves, as you would for any safe lab procedure anyway. People are quick to condemn what they don't understand....
Pyrotechnicians commonly work with far, far more dangerous compositions, flash, whistle, etc...they do explode in open air and are friction, static, and impact sensitive, yet they can be worked with safely and never have accidents if they use common sense and common safety.
I have worked with such things myself.
Hand grinding a highly combustable mix of dry chemicals just does not pass the safety test, even a mixture only marginaly susceptible to friction ignition.
Working with a pile of it by hand is different than intentionaly applying large amounts of friction to something which is intentionaly unstable and can explode or in this case deflagrate, while standing over it, with your hands and arms right in the direction the heat and energy would be directed. A minor impurity in the mix could leave the person disfigured and possibly disabled for life.
Making black powder can be safe. However an error, even not due to the individual and instead the supplier of a chemical or an impurity from another item getting in the mix can be disasterous.
In a mill the low chance of problems from someone taking proper precations is acceptable in small batches, especialy in a mill located in a location that even a minor explosion poses little risk of harm to anyone.
In a mortar and pestle that low chance just became unacceptable in my opinion.
Even factories that produced black powder were made so that in case of an explosion the forces would be directed in a harmless direction, usualy through one wall intentionaly built to give.
While this would instead burn rapidly and not explode, the same concept applies. The direction of the burning and heat would be straight up from the pestle. Right where the hands, arms, and possible face of the person is.
That is simply not a safe practice.
If we have different opinions on acceptable risk that is fine.
Black Powder is not friction or impact sensitive though. If for some reason there was some perchlorate impurity in the KNO3 ( most likely impossible...) then there'd be a slight, possible, remote chance of friction ignition, but that same impurity would bow up your ball mill during operation too. I've never heard of one single account of BP going up on anyway in milling, rocketry, pyrotechnics...etc. It's quite stable.
In a mortar and pestle, you have to grind a small amount anyway, I can't imagine that you can do more than 100 grams at once in a average size mortar. Still best to follow safety anyway ( gloves and goggles ). I'd use a ceramic mortar.
Grind all 3 ingredients separate at first so they're all super fine powder. Then mix the 3 and work them together until homogenous.
Personally I wouldn't bother much with a mortar and pestle, it's a nice idea, if you have no power or no mill, you can make your BP this way, but why not just mill up a bunch now and store it so when you have no power and have to be self reliant....you have plenty of BP ready to go! A mill will make better powder than you can do by hand anyway.
In a mortar and pestle, you have to grind a small amount anyway, I can't imagine that you can do more than 100 grams at once in a average size mortar. Still best to follow safety anyway ( gloves and goggles ). I'd use a ceramic mortar.
Grind all 3 ingredients separate at first so they're all super fine powder. Then mix the 3 and work them together until homogenous.
Personally I wouldn't bother much with a mortar and pestle, it's a nice idea, if you have no power or no mill, you can make your BP this way, but why not just mill up a bunch now and store it so when you have no power and have to be self reliant....you have plenty of BP ready to go! A mill will make better powder than you can do by hand anyway.
- Status
