Making blackpowder.
- Thread starter GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
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scrat
Member
i have read and heard a lot about using cheese graders. i am going to try that out. If it gets to find. from what i understand you can wet it again bunch it up and do it again.
Of of the great things about BP has always been that when it's wet you can just dry it out and it's as good as new. Try that with smokeless or substitutes
Kitchen strainers work fine. What I end up with is probably 2F or so, but it's fine in my revolvers and .45lc cartridges.
Kitchen strainers work fine. What I end up with is probably 2F or so, but it's fine in my revolvers and .45lc cartridges.
scalper
Member
What if too fine (like FFFF)?
Out of curiousity, what happens if I make too fine powder like a FFFF and use it in my revolver? Seems like one of the videos floating around made some BP using a mortar and pestle and was really, really fine. Would it not work?
Out of curiousity, what happens if I make too fine powder like a FFFF and use it in my revolver? Seems like one of the videos floating around made some BP using a mortar and pestle and was really, really fine. Would it not work?
scrat
Member
speaking of mortar and pestle i recieved mine today
Beagle-zebub
Member
So what was the verdict on compressing BP when making it for firearms? The fogo link compresses it into those cakes, but the website appears to be aimed towards fireworks, not firearms. What say you?
zxcvbob
Member
Compressing it has to be a good thing, but JCT says his powder is quite good without it (because he uses better charcoal than Goex does)
In another week or two it should be dry enough here that I can test my powder again. I didn't compress it because I don't have a hydraulic press (and the pressing and corning is a little bit scary) My powder looks about like commercial FFF but it's duller in color. I used very good charcoal and very impure KNO3 and sulphur. (I don't think the low-grade sulphur matters, but the KNO3 and the charcoal do)
I'll look for a local source of good KNO3 this summer.
In another week or two it should be dry enough here that I can test my powder again. I didn't compress it because I don't have a hydraulic press (and the pressing and corning is a little bit scary) My powder looks about like commercial FFF but it's duller in color. I used very good charcoal and very impure KNO3 and sulphur. (I don't think the low-grade sulphur matters, but the KNO3 and the charcoal do)
I'll look for a local source of good KNO3 this summer.
Pressing makes a denser and more durable grain. It allows you to fit more BP into a smaller area. Those are the advantages.
My unpressed powder, since it's less dense, takes up more space for equivalent weights of pressed powder, an example a 50 grain spout throws 46 grains in weight of GOEX. The same spout throws 37 grains in weight of mine. This is good since I don't shoot max loads anyway and 37 grains of my powder is as powerful as the 46 grains of GOEX.
I can fill my .45lc cases to the top with my BP and seat a bullet to compress the powder. In weight, it's about 27 grains of BP, perfect really. Using GOEX would give me just about 35 grains. 35 grains is a heavy load in a SAA, but to back it off, you need wads or fillers. With my less dense powder I need no fillers.
I've tried dust straight from the mill, it fires fine, but is messy and hard to deal with in a powder measure. Granulating it is easy.
Also, I think the lower density grains allow the BP to burn up faster which yields more initial pressure, which should mean more accuracy.
My unpressed powder, since it's less dense, takes up more space for equivalent weights of pressed powder, an example a 50 grain spout throws 46 grains in weight of GOEX. The same spout throws 37 grains in weight of mine. This is good since I don't shoot max loads anyway and 37 grains of my powder is as powerful as the 46 grains of GOEX.
I can fill my .45lc cases to the top with my BP and seat a bullet to compress the powder. In weight, it's about 27 grains of BP, perfect really. Using GOEX would give me just about 35 grains. 35 grains is a heavy load in a SAA, but to back it off, you need wads or fillers. With my less dense powder I need no fillers.
I've tried dust straight from the mill, it fires fine, but is messy and hard to deal with in a powder measure. Granulating it is easy.
Also, I think the lower density grains allow the BP to burn up faster which yields more initial pressure, which should mean more accuracy.
Beagle-zebub
Member
Could you compensate for using less or no sulphur by corning/sifting to a smaller grain-size?
you can leave out Sulfur if you like, it'll raise the ignition temperature though and the BP will probably not burn as hot or fast, which would mean it'll be dirtier.
At least a few times I've shot the Dragoon or Walker and not cleaned until 2 days later and I never see signs of rust. I think substitute powders are more corrosive anyway.
At least a few times I've shot the Dragoon or Walker and not cleaned until 2 days later and I never see signs of rust. I think substitute powders are more corrosive anyway.
jimrbto
Member
Why go through all the bother of pressing the powder, then letting it dry and then pound and crush it in order to make it into grains? Would it not be possible to take a pressed cake and force it through a screen before it dries? I understand that the finished product may have a density less than commercial but surely would be more that unpressed powder?
Thanks for your input.
Jim
P.S. Just been offered an unlimited supply of alder.
Thanks for your input.
Jim
P.S. Just been offered an unlimited supply of alder.
zxcvbob
Member
That description about pressing the powder into a puck is a little misleading. The powder should be pressed at a high enough pressure that the sulphur plasticly flows and binds it all together. (I doubt that you need any water at all for this to happen.) The puck will be too hard to grate it or screen it without crushing first.
You don't need water when pressing BP. The pucks you end up with remind me of clay pigeons or bricks. They're rock hard, you need to break them up to use any of it. I've pressed BP on a small scale, with comet pumps and star pumps, I just find that unpressed powder works great too.
scalper
Member
Sulfurless BP
JCT and others have mentioned that sulfur is not required when making BP. However, he did say that the ignition temp will go up. Seems like the stink and maybe some corrosion might go down (just a hunch).
So two questions for anyone who knows:
1) What are some successful proportions (like 80% KNO3/20% charcoal) used by others in making sulfur-less BP?
2) What other properties are noticeable from leaving sulfur out? Projectile velocity? Pressures? Corrosive residue?
JCT and others have mentioned that sulfur is not required when making BP. However, he did say that the ignition temp will go up. Seems like the stink and maybe some corrosion might go down (just a hunch).
So two questions for anyone who knows:
1) What are some successful proportions (like 80% KNO3/20% charcoal) used by others in making sulfur-less BP?
2) What other properties are noticeable from leaving sulfur out? Projectile velocity? Pressures? Corrosive residue?
scrat
Member
i have heard a few people mentioning replacing the sulfur with sugar. So whats the difference
sugar is just another fuel, you can just use KNO3 and sugar only if you like, that's getting closer to pyrodex, which I think uses fructose and KCLO4.
Sulfur is a fuel too, but I think it's role is as a catalyst or stabilizer. I'd have to read up again about that, I see no reason not to use sulfur, we all clean the guns after shooting anyway, the smell is part of it all
Sulfur is a fuel too, but I think it's role is as a catalyst or stabilizer. I'd have to read up again about that, I see no reason not to use sulfur, we all clean the guns after shooting anyway, the smell is part of it all
scrat
Member
ya im just going to have to do another internet order. i have checking every friggen pharmacy, drug store, hardware store for Sulfur. i cant seem to find any locally. I have the KNO3 just arrived today. So i have 1lbs of KNO3 and my Mortar, pestle, and a four type cheese grater.
zxcvbob
Member
Check the local garden centers for "dusting sulfur." It's only 90% pure though, so don't go hog wild with it until you've made a small batch of BP and tried it. (I think the purity of the sulfur is the least important of the ingredients, but I don't have any data to back that up)
scrat
Member
you know what i did see some sulfur at home depot in the garden department. In fact id did say 90% pure. so i was not too sure of getting it or not. So your saying 90% is ok.
scalper
Member
Interesting. I just located a database online entitled the PFP database with various pyrotechnic formulas. For sulfurless BP, they showed to following proportions (I assume the names are various expert preferences):
SULFURLESS BP
-------------------------Lancaster------- Noble------ Noble------ Thomas
Potassium nitrate-----------70.5------------80---------87.1---------70
Charcoal--------------------29.5-----------20---------12.9----------30
and they had this interesting one under rocket propelleants......
NITRATE/SUGAR BASED PROPELLANTS
----------------------------Candy propellant------Teleflite propellant
Potassium nitrate-----------------74.5--------------------63
Sucrose--------------------------25.5--------------------27
Sulfur-----------------------------------------------------10
It almost sounds like experimentation with various propellant formulas could be as much fun as that of reloading. Things sure get more interesting the more you learn.
SULFURLESS BP
-------------------------Lancaster------- Noble------ Noble------ Thomas
Potassium nitrate-----------70.5------------80---------87.1---------70
Charcoal--------------------29.5-----------20---------12.9----------30
and they had this interesting one under rocket propelleants
......NITRATE/SUGAR BASED PROPELLANTS
----------------------------Candy propellant------Teleflite propellant
Potassium nitrate-----------------74.5--------------------63
Sucrose--------------------------25.5--------------------27
Sulfur-----------------------------------------------------10
It almost sounds like experimentation with various propellant formulas could be as much fun as that of reloading. Things sure get more interesting the more you learn.
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I make BP rockets too, the only major difference is they use some air float charcoal, but some course charcoal too for tails. The KNO3 percentage varies depending on rocket size, but is between 65% - 70%. I add 3% baby oil to all that BP which keeps dust down and makes solid fuel grains that don't crack easily, so they don't CATO ( Blow up ).
zxcvbob
Member
I'm saying I think that's OK, I should know for sure next Tuesday if it's not raining or snowing. That's when I go to the range, and I'm gonna take some .45LC cartridges filled with stump remover KNO3, cedar charcoal, and garden sulfur BP. (it didn't work very well last fall when the powder was still damp, but it did show some promise.)
The stuff is so cheap, how could you not try it before placing another internet order and paying shipping charges again?
Just don't make a big batch the first time and possibly waste too much of your potassium nitrate.scrat
Member
you need to pm me as soon as you try it. If it works im on my way to home depot
that or im going to be grinding a lot of match sticks. hahaha. can that be done. iknow its more that sulfur though
that or im going to be grinding a lot of match sticks. hahaha. can that be done. iknow its more that sulfur though
zxcvbob
Member
Don't even think about it. Match heads are totally different and they contain at least a little potassium perchlorate (very powerful oxidizer that could make your BP friction sensitive)
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