I am going to be in the minority here, but this guy was an idiot. Just because you can do something does not mean you should. Asking for trouble. There is a difference in walking out of a field after dove hunting w/ a SxS and walking through a residential neighborhood with an assault rifle. Was he legally allowed to do so? Of course. Was it insensitive and stupid. You bet.
Man arrested for toting rifle.
- Thread starter gomer
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Wow. What a tool. I don't live down there, but I sure as hell wouldn't do business with somebody like that.
As for carrying the gun openly, what is the big deal? I would think it was odd (only because nobody does it here), but call the cops? No way. If he was harassing or threatening people, call the cops. However, the article specifically states that he was doing nothing illegal and not threatening anybody. People are too excitable today, show a gun in public and they get all
The country would be safer if we all toted guns openly and people got over the idea that people with guns are going to rob, murder, and plunder.
PAshooter
Member
I don't really think you'll get too much argument here that it wasn't a particularly bright thing to do. That's not the point... in fact you made the correct point: "Was he legally allowed to do so? Of course."
Then why is he being charged with a crime?
Cosmoline
Member
Vagrancy, disorderly conduct and similar laws have long been used as catch-alls by corrupt LEO's to enforce their personal will. The most notorious examples are of course where cops use such broad laws to eliminate dark skinned people and anyone else who's upsetting the neighbors. This is more of the same thing. There's no law being violated, but people who can afford gardeners are upset so the law must act.
I sure hope this fellow challenges the arrest.
I sure hope this fellow challenges the arrest.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
...Affirming the adage that the purpose of getting an FFL is not to sell guns or make money. It is to tell people "No."
Shifty
Member
devils advocate here, but from that article, we have no idea what the guys state of mind was. what if he was some borderline psycho walking around trying to get attention, and acted like an ass when confronted by the police??
what if there was no shootable land around, the guy was a stranger, acting shifty, and pacing up and down the street?? hell i'd give the police a call too. thats their decision as to whether or not a crime is being commited.
and yea, he could have been a normal guy walking to a buddies house, and minding his own business, who got harrassed by some overzealous cop. but none of us were there.
and about the gunshop owner..... thats his right. and i mostly agree. but then again, i dont think most teenagers should be allowed to drive either.
honestly, there are a whole lot of people that can legally purchase and own firearms that just scare the hell out of me. but there is no way to screen these people without trampling on the rights of the rest of us......... so if an individual gun store owner has an age bias and makes them prove themselves before he will sell them a firearm then more power to him.
what if there was no shootable land around, the guy was a stranger, acting shifty, and pacing up and down the street?? hell i'd give the police a call too. thats their decision as to whether or not a crime is being commited.
and yea, he could have been a normal guy walking to a buddies house, and minding his own business, who got harrassed by some overzealous cop. but none of us were there.
and about the gunshop owner..... thats his right. and i mostly agree. but then again, i dont think most teenagers should be allowed to drive either.
honestly, there are a whole lot of people that can legally purchase and own firearms that just scare the hell out of me. but there is no way to screen these people without trampling on the rights of the rest of us......... so if an individual gun store owner has an age bias and makes them prove themselves before he will sell them a firearm then more power to him.
When I purchased my first rifle, a Mosin Nagant M44, from the Houston High-Caliber Gun Show, I had to walk 6 blocks through crowded downtown sidewalks with this amazing battle-rifle slung over my shoulder to get back to my car.
6 BLOCKS THROUGH DOWNTOWN HOUSTON!
I got looks, mostly smiles. Perhaps most knew there was a gun show in town?
I even had people ask to see it, of which I did not feel comfortable doing.
Even the cops I passed didnt seem to care... I wasn't doing anything illegal.
6 BLOCKS THROUGH DOWNTOWN HOUSTON!
I got looks, mostly smiles. Perhaps most knew there was a gun show in town?
I even had people ask to see it, of which I did not feel comfortable doing.
Even the cops I passed didnt seem to care... I wasn't doing anything illegal.
If something is legal, but if anyone is disturbed it becomes illegal as a disturbance of the peace.
So can they prosecute women for wearing skimpy clothing? That can sure cause a disturbance.
Anyone with a T-shirt that says something obscene, that could disturb the peace.
Perhaps someone excercising thier freedom of speech in a place that most disagree with what they are saying should be arrested for disturbing the peace.
Another one of those catch all laws that undo the purpose of having individual laws. It suddenly becomes discretionary whether your legal activites should be allowed or not, even if protected by law.
So can they prosecute women for wearing skimpy clothing? That can sure cause a disturbance.
Anyone with a T-shirt that says something obscene, that could disturb the peace.
Perhaps someone excercising thier freedom of speech in a place that most disagree with what they are saying should be arrested for disturbing the peace.
Another one of those catch all laws that undo the purpose of having individual laws. It suddenly becomes discretionary whether your legal activites should be allowed or not, even if protected by law.
Cosmoline
Member
I suspect they would have thrown far more serious charges at him if he'd challenged the police or appeared to actually threaten anyone directly. Those matters are covered by real laws. Their reliance on a vague catch-all strongly suggests they couldn't bring a real case against him for actually *doing* anything illegal.
It's pretty simple. If he's not actually doing something that's specifically illegal, he should not be arrested. Even if he looks weird or whatever. The police are not there to arrest people who look strange who happen to be carrying long arms. If they were, I would have been arrested long ago.
Joe Demko
Member
I seriously doubt you "had" to. See there are things like boxes,wrapping paper, or carrying cases that would easily have permitted you to carry it in a non-descript form.
As for the ass running around the neighborhood with an AK-clone, I think he wanted some attention and he got it. Call me paranoid or anti-liberty if you like, but I live in a rather quiet residential neighborhood with no shootable property anywhere close. If I see some clown, especially one who doesn't live here, walking around with a weapon, he is damned sure going to get all the attention he can stand. The only exception to that would be during a state of emergency; and then if the AK-toter didn't belong to the neighborhood he'd really get some attention.
On the face of it, someone walking around with an AK, I can see why he got arrested. Maybe it was jusified, maybe not, that is for his lawyer, the DA and the jury to find out.
The cops did their job. The came out, saw an idiot walking around with an AK and not knowing anything about said idiot, did what they could to keep the peace.
Beyond that, who knows.
+1... I love Texas and more than that, Houston is a great town. Most people are low key, like guns or at least know enough to remember FIRST this is Texas and SECOND, strange as it may seem, they like it that way.
The cops did their job. The came out, saw an idiot walking around with an AK and not knowing anything about said idiot, did what they could to keep the peace.
Beyond that, who knows.
McKnife said:
+1... I love Texas and more than that, Houston is a great town. Most people are low key, like guns or at least know enough to remember FIRST this is Texas and SECOND, strange as it may seem, they like it that way.
Ohio Rifleman
Member
Email addresses for the gun shop owner or police chief? Maybe we could flood their inboxes! 
JohnBT
Member
My guess is some of the neighbors knew him and didn't trust him - gun or no gun.
John
John
RNB65
Member
I agree with John. There's probably more to this story than what's contained in the article. Perhaps this guy was known to the locals as a troublemaker. My neighbors know that I'm an avid shooter and if they saw me walking down the street with a rifle, they'd just wave and say hello. Who knows...
If someone posted one of those "What If" scenarios around here that said, "Man walks up to you while carrying rifle. Doesn't say anything or threaten you but he his holding it" the universal response would be to draw and challenge him, with quite a few responses talking about blowing him away immediately, because "that's how you handled it in the good old days."
But now those same people are offended that somebody called the cops and this guy is getting charged? I'm just waiting for the post that says this whole episode is Bill Clinton's fault.
But now those same people are offended that somebody called the cops and this guy is getting charged? I'm just waiting for the post that says this whole episode is Bill Clinton's fault.
SSN Vet
Member
Bingo!
glockman19
Member
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I'd bet the charges get dropped. He was within his rights and the law. Just another example of People Neighbore & LEO's run amuck. Most LEO's I know would have checked to see he was the owner of the firearm and after confirmation it was his would have let him go.
He was exercising his right to do something legal. If it was illegal, fine, lock him up(though I disagree with the law), but it's legal in Alabama to carry a long rifle on your person in public. I do not think it's right that he was arrested on some BS catch all charge. Making people feel unsafe while doing something legal should not be a crime(some people feel unsafe because we can legally own guns).
MinnMooney
Member
That's right... bring the little kidlets into it for more spectacularisation! Kids usually take on their parents emotions during various incidents so I'd bet that the "frightedned" reaction was parent induced.
I carry various uncased loaded and unloaded rifles, shotguns and pistols up and down my rural road every week from my house to where I practice about a quarter of a mile away. Cars (some with little kiddies in them) pass me all the time. They'll wave or stop and chit-chat. Most of the time they don't even ask about the gun that I'm carrying.
*** Mountain out of a mole hill. ***
Although I'm VERY pro-gun-rights, I have to confess to being somewhat torn on this issue.
The story in question, I don't believe the guy did anything illegal nor morally wrong, HOWEVER...
If I see someone walking in my quiet residential neighborhood, who I DON'T KNOW...
Number one, I don't know his state of mind or mental capacity. He could be an escapee from the nut-hatch, a developmentally disabled adult, someone who is having a breakdown or got a bad batch of medication, John Rambo having a flashback - these things I DON'T KNOW.
Number two, I don't know if he's responsible. Does he know the 4 rules? Does he consistently obey them? Does he know how much penetrating power the rifle he's holding is capable of? These things I DON'T KNOW.
Number three, Is it loaded? If I can see a magazine inserted, I have to assume it is loaded. Why isn't it in a case? The only reason you'd need it out of a case is if you intend to use it. Does he intend to use it, HERE in this residential neighborhood? These things I DON'T KNOW!
If I saw a man with an AK wandering the streets of my neighborhood, out of the case, magazine inserted, someone not known to me, I owe it to myself and my neighbors to make sure there is not a problem, and sad to say the safest way to do that is to call the police and let THEM do the question asking. I really really HATE that, but I'm not about to take my chances finding out whether he's a maniac who just killed his wife and is just itching for someone else to get in his way.
That said, I think the police should have talked to the guy, made an impression on how alarming his behavior was to the neighborhood, and asked him please, out of courtesy to the neighborhood, get a case for the darn thing for toting when not in use. There have just been too many mall shootings and other incidents for the public not to take seriously the presence of a strange man with unknown intent, carrying an (apparently) loaded assault weapon in an area where that behavior is not typical or commonplace.
The story in question, I don't believe the guy did anything illegal nor morally wrong, HOWEVER...
If I see someone walking in my quiet residential neighborhood, who I DON'T KNOW...
Number one, I don't know his state of mind or mental capacity. He could be an escapee from the nut-hatch, a developmentally disabled adult, someone who is having a breakdown or got a bad batch of medication, John Rambo having a flashback - these things I DON'T KNOW.
Number two, I don't know if he's responsible. Does he know the 4 rules? Does he consistently obey them? Does he know how much penetrating power the rifle he's holding is capable of? These things I DON'T KNOW.
Number three, Is it loaded? If I can see a magazine inserted, I have to assume it is loaded. Why isn't it in a case? The only reason you'd need it out of a case is if you intend to use it. Does he intend to use it, HERE in this residential neighborhood? These things I DON'T KNOW!
If I saw a man with an AK wandering the streets of my neighborhood, out of the case, magazine inserted, someone not known to me, I owe it to myself and my neighbors to make sure there is not a problem, and sad to say the safest way to do that is to call the police and let THEM do the question asking. I really really HATE that, but I'm not about to take my chances finding out whether he's a maniac who just killed his wife and is just itching for someone else to get in his way.
That said, I think the police should have talked to the guy, made an impression on how alarming his behavior was to the neighborhood, and asked him please, out of courtesy to the neighborhood, get a case for the darn thing for toting when not in use. There have just been too many mall shootings and other incidents for the public not to take seriously the presence of a strange man with unknown intent, carrying an (apparently) loaded assault weapon in an area where that behavior is not typical or commonplace.
A gardener who makes his own fertilizer?
Seriously though, I'd be concerned If I saw someone walking around my neighborhood with a loaded AK. I don't think he should be charged with a crime, but I do think the police should've asked him to refrain from carrying his rifle loaded and un-cased. That's a fairly high-powered round and could do a lot of damage to innocents or their property in the event of a ND.
I've got no problem with people walking around with loaded pistol-caliber weapons as long as they're being responsible. For the safety of my family, I'd like to keep the high-powered weapons unloaded unless they're actually being used.
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