Man killed attempting to stop a carjacking

[wayneinFL]

I pulled this up on my laptop tonight. If the sound I was synced up correctly, it looked like he was pointing the gun at the carjacker, then pointing the gun away and firing warning shots into the utility bed of the truck. Like he knew he couldn't use deadly force. So why have the gun out?

There were two people running out of the path of the vehicle. It sounded like he was the one yelling for the other guy to get out of the way. Obviously, he didn't make it out of the way himself.

 

[Space Ghost]

I saw this video before on another forum, and had hoped the good guy had lived to testify in court. Sad to hear my hopes did not pan out. I'd much rather a happy ending with a dead bad guy... but such is life so often.

Keep in mind, we do NOT have the start of the incident on film, so we do not know the entire story. Monday morning quarterbacking it may seem like a fun table-top exercise, but only the investigation will reveal the truth. All we know is...


1. The good guy chose to get involved.
2. The bad guy diverted his efforts towards stealing the good guys work truck.
3. The good guy fired on the bad guy.
4. The bad guy was not hit, or not hit badly enough to prevent him from running down and killing the good guy.

IMHO, there are things the good guy could have done much better, but I for one can not (and will not) fault him for stepping up and getting involved.

I carry for SELF defense, yes, however, as a good & decent human being, (or even an average one) there is just no way on God's green earth I'm ever gonna be able to stand by and watch evil happen right in front of me...
without my stepping in... if I'm ever in a position to do anything about it. I just couldn't live with myself.

His actions cost him his life. There were more than a couple things he could have done better, but I can tell you all right now he's the kind of guy I would have been proud to know.
God bless you good sir. Thank you for trying. RIP.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

We do not know enough to say that what he ws trying to do was "the right thing". Was he shootin at a fleeing thief?

One must take care not to attribute to malice what can be explained by simple ignorance. The video was 1:04 long, lots of stuff lead up to the events shown. According to witnesses (and at least a couple that knew the man) he has attempted to break up a carjacking. The carjacker broke off the original attack and got in the vehicle belong to/driven by the shooter. I'm making an inference based on witness and other information, and while I don't have perfect knowledge of the situation I think it's reasonable and plausible to assume the man was trying to what he thought was right under the circumstanced. I'm not saying he was correct and his actions were tactically unsound but I see no reason to impugn his motives.

I do think it's clear that he was acting under emotions and not training or reason. I am not an attorney nor have I ever been to North Carolina, but in most places I've lived shooting at a fleeing criminal will land you in hot water. I'm not even sure what his plan was, what his ideal outcome would have been. "Best" case the thief's brains are all over the cab of his work truck and he's explaining to the cops what happened. Every option from there on down seems progressively less desirable. The video began well into the action but certainly every action captured on film seems to have been tactically unsound. There's no absolving the murderer from his guilt but I'd bet a big box of donuts that if the deceased hadn't tried to paint the cab of his truck with the carjacker's brains he wouldn't have even contemplated running him down. It's a near certainty that he was very upset at having someone shoot at his face and wanted payback.

EDIT: Fixing atrocious spelling errors!

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Happens to police officers using department issue ammo as there is their camera evidence documenting it. People do miss at close range and/or fail to connect meaningfully with their bullets.

What I mean is I couldn't tell from the relatively low quality video if he missed the target or if his rounds failed to penetrate the glass of the side window. I couldn't ID the firearm from the video though I suspect it might have been a Judge or something like it. If so, .410 shot loads might not penetrate a side window. Not really germane to the topic I'll admit, I was just speculating. Certainly it's easy to miss even up close, but it's a lot easier to hit someone that's not shooting back! The old two-way range vs one-way range thing.

 

[JohnKSa]

Several bystanders were yelling for him to get out the way, but it didn't seem that he was aware of the danger or moving too fast to get out of it.

Gunshots are loud without hearing protection. He may not have heard them yelling or understood what they were yelling due to his ears ringing from the shots.

Some good lessons for those inclined to learn them.

• Guns are not magic.
  • Don't assume that criminals will be afraid of your gun.
  • Never assume that a gun will solve a problem for you just by being there or by being displayed or even by being fired. You can end up feeling really stupid, on the wrong side of the law or even dead.
• Some criminals will not do what you expect them to do.
  • Never assume you know what a criminal is thinking or what they will do.
  • They may not run at the sight of a gun. They may not run after being shot at or even after being shot.
  • They may try to kill you instead of trying to escape.
• It's not over until its over.
  • If you assume its over and its not, you may end up dead.
  • Pay attention and keep paying attention.
• Never assume that you're going to win a deadly force encounter.
  • Understand that your choice to get involved may cost you everything.
  • If you're not willing to pay the potential price or if the risk isn't worth the reward then back away and use your phone instead of your gun.

There are circumstances where I would get involved in trying to help the victim of a crime in progress, but I can tell you that I'm strongly disinclined to put my life on the line to save someone an insurance deductible. Besides the fact that I value my own life, there are other people in this world who need me to be alive and functional and I owe it to them to make wise decisions.

Getting back to assuming you know what a criminal will do, it appears that this guy was having some kind of crisis. According to this article, he had possibly been involved in two other hit and run crashes the same day of this incident. I'm not making excuses for him, just pointing out that you never know what's going on in another person's mind. Assuming you do could be a deadly mistake.

Man charged in Lumberton carjacking that killed good Samaritan involved in 2 other crashes

Ricky Driggers,28, was involved in two crashes the very same day he ran over and killed a man hailed as a Good Samaritan last month in Lumberton,

wpde.com

 

[Double Naught Spy]

What I mean is I couldn't tell from the relatively low quality video if he missed the target or if his rounds failed to penetrate the glass of the side window.

Side window glass isn't that thick. Either way, my point is that this isn't likely to be a bullet fail issue. It happens to police officers firing real police ammo, not gimmick ammo, not snake shot, not BB guns.

As JohnKSa said, guns (and by extension, ammo/bullets) are not magic.

 

[Space Ghost]

I'm not even sure what his plan was, what his ideal outcome would have been. "Best" case the thief's brains are all over the cab of his work truck and he's explaining to the cops what happened.

Given today's leftist leaning society (in general... I know nothing about his state) He may have ended up in court anyhow, (like Rittenhouse) but I'll agree that this would have been the best all-around outcome.
I'm sure whoever he helped would testify on his behalf...




Although were he to live and be acquitted... summer riot season is just around the corner. (and it's an election year)

 

[Styx]

What I mean is I couldn't tell from the relatively low quality video if he missed the target or if his rounds failed to penetrate the glass of the side window. I couldn't ID the firearm from the video though I suspect it might have been a Judge or something like it. If so, .410 shot loads might not penetrate a side window. Not really germane to the topic I'll admit, I was just speculating. Certainly it's easy to miss even up close, but it's a lot easier to hit someone that's not shooting back! The old two-way range vs one-way range thing.

His first two shots looked to be at an angle shooting through a cracked door, and his last shot appeared to be direct at the driver's side window that didn't appear to be affected much.

I'll agree that this would have been the best all-around outcome.
I'm sure whoever he helped would testify on his behalf...

North Carolina has a Stand your Ground law which it views a vehicle as being simular to one's home with regards to self-defense purposes. That may have helped too.

 

[Gun-Reck]

Wow, pretty bad one! A man in North Carolina was killed while attempting to stop a carjacker. There's a video but I wouldn't recommending watching it if you can help it. In a nutshell, the good Samaritan drew his handgun to stop a carjacker but was ignored. The carjacker decides to take the good Samaritan's truck, and after a long delay he appears to empty his gun into the driver's side window at near-contact distance. I have no idea whether he missed with every round or maybe was using some kind of birdshot or other gimmick ammo. At any rate, the carjacker backed up to get some distance then ran the shooter down, killing him.

So many lessons, so many really mind boggling errors in judgement. The guy was obviously trying to help or do the right thing but paid with his life. Not trying to bag on a guy that already died, but I'm not sure what a "win" would have been in his mind! Had he succeeded he'd have killed an unarmed guy in his (the shooter's) own truck. And the backstop appeared to have been the Burger King across the street!

For my own part, I carry a firearm as a tool to help me save my own life, and maybe under some circumstance, the lives of other. While the law may permit it I'm not planning to shoot someone in the streets to protect property. Obviously there's no sure thing, but introducing a firearm into a crime in progress might well not go your way. I'm not advocating just allowing criminals to act with impunity but you have weigh your odds and understand that when you push all your chips into the middle of the table you may well lose that hand, and your life.

Clown-shows... are.

Play stupid games - win stupid prizes.

 

[The Night Rider]

It seems like all the videos of the shooting have been removed from YouTube but from what I saw the victim was literally inches away from the carjacker or at least his gun was. He fired multiple times at Point Blank Range and it doesn't look like he hit the carjacker at all.

The carjacker running him down looked deliberate and I don't know where he could have run to get away from that

 

[Alex Clayton]

This isn't a loaded question, nor am I'm asking just to debate your answer. I'm curious to know your personal opinion.

Do you believe it's your responsibility as a legal gun owner to protect and defend able bodied adults who are strangers who make the conscious choice not to carry or take steps to defend themselves? Why or why not?

For me? No. I got a LOT of anger from a co worker about this while back. Asked me if I was standing in line at some place and some scum pulls a gun to rob the place would I dust them. I said no. He got REALLY angry. I just shrugged and said I don't wear blue PJ's with a red S on them under my shirt. Not my place to be Cop to the rest of the world. Now if the scum started trying to herd me into the back or such? Yes I would look to drop them. Again if I can walk away and the scum is not may problem. The guy who got over the top angry is the kind who if he is ever in that situation will be very likely to end up causing an innocent to take a bullet and he will be needing a lawyer.

 

[JeffG]

Wow, pretty bad one! A man in North Carolina was killed while attempting to stop a carjacker. There's a video but I wouldn't recommending watching it if you can help it. In a nutshell, the good Samaritan drew his handgun to stop a carjacker but was ignored. The carjacker decides to take the good Samaritan's truck, and after a long delay he appears to empty his gun into the driver's side window at near-contact distance. I have no idea whether he missed with every round or maybe was using some kind of birdshot or other gimmick ammo. At any rate, the carjacker backed up to get some distance then ran the shooter down, killing him.

So many lessons, so many really mind boggling errors in judgement. The guy was obviously trying to help or do the right thing but paid with his life. Not trying to bag on a guy that already died, but I'm not sure what a "win" would have been in his mind! Had he succeeded he'd have killed an unarmed guy in his (the shooter's) own truck. And the backstop appeared to have been the Burger King across the street!

For my own part, I carry a firearm as a tool to help me save my own life, and maybe under some circumstance, the lives of other. While the law may permit it I'm not planning to shoot someone in the streets to protect property. Obviously there's no sure thing, but introducing a firearm into a crime in progress might well not go your way. I'm not advocating just allowing criminals to act with impunity but you have weigh your odds and understand that when you push all your chips into the middle of the table you may well lose that hand, and your life.

For my own part, I carry a firearm as a tool to help me save my own life,

For me, that's it in a nutshell. Summon police, render aid to the injured or wounded. Be a good witness.

 

[wayneinFL]

For me? No. I got a LOT of anger from a co worker about this while back. Asked me if I was standing in line at some place and some scum pulls a gun to rob the place would I dust them. I said no. He got REALLY angry. I just shrugged and said I don't wear blue PJ's with a red S on them under my shirt. Not my place to be Cop to the rest of the world. Now if the scum started trying to herd me into the back or such? Yes I would look to drop them. Again if I can walk away and the scum is not may problem. The guy who got over the top angry is the kind who if he is ever in that situation will be very likely to end up causing an innocent to take a bullet and he will be needing a lawyer.

I agree 100%.

Think about the best case scenario. What do you gain by intervening when it's not necessary? Citizen of the month? What do you risk losing? Your life, your good health, your job, your mental health, your freedom, your retirement. Your safety and your family's safety. The list goes on.

A cop has a union, pension, qualified immunity, and friends in the police dept., DA's office, and other high places. Let him shoot the guy. Or let the guy get away. Not my problem.

 

[wayneinFL]

It seems like all the videos of the shooting have been removed from YouTube but from what I saw the victim was literally inches away from the carjacker or at least his gun was. He fired multiple times at Point Blank Range and it doesn't look like he hit the carjacker at all.

The carjacker running him down looked deliberate and I don't know where he could have run to get away from that

This is the only place I see the full video.

It doesn't look to me like he was firing into the cab. He pointed the gun back when he fired like he was shooting at the bed or maybe the tires.

Viral video: Man fatally run over in attempt to thwart US carjacking

Lecompte was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[Kleanbore]

Shooting at someone while having no basis for a belief that an imminent threat of death or serious harm existed....missing several times at a range of about four feet (but those bullets went somewhere).... standing in the middle of the street afterward, and getting run over...

MAN!

 

[Chief TC]

I think anytime anyone is exposed to or uses a firearm against another human is a combat experience. I think very few people are so calm and put together that they can correctly or effectively assess and handle the situation well at a first exposure event. We all want to believe we practice and are prepared to use our guns and will stand up for righteousness. The reality is what they call the “fog of war”. So many things happening and going on that it is difficult to think and concentrate and not be reacting in fear. It takes time and experience for people to become effective operators in a combat environment.

Making a decision not to get involved with a gun does not mean cowardice. LE is charged with handling these things. I’m sure the guy had the right idea and good intent initially but was easily overcome by events. OBE is a common military acronym describing this phenomenon. We all are vulnerable to OBE without good training and sufficient experience and even then sometimes we are OBE.

 

[JERRY]

I don't think non static on the move defensive training classes in a safe controlled environment shooting at static targets that aren't shooting back is enough to prepare for a lethal encounter. Things don't always work out the way with scripted it on our heads in the real world.

Its in your head. You're either willing to take a life or you aren't. There've been police officers some of whom I had the displeasure of knowing that thought because they did good on the range that they would do good in real life. Some failed miserably.