manually de-cocking

[otomik]

there's people on SIG forum joking about how Jack Bauer never uses the decocker on his SIG and instead always uses the thumb on hammer method. okay so if his thumb slipped and it fell with enough force it might break his thumb, but it also looks like plenty of people decock this way, 1911s, BHPs, CZs, etc. anything wrong with this? i never really liked the idea or the sound of a that hammer smacking down with a loaded chamber anyway. i don't really believe in manual safeties and was thinking of loctite-ing the safety/decocker on my Bersa in the Fire position and just doing decocking manually.

anybody have some bad experiences with this method or is it a perfectly acceptable way to go?

 

[Chupacabra]

Jack Bauer doesn't carry a Sig.

He carries a USP!

(Or at least I think he does )

Anyway, I have always been told manually de-cocking is a big no no. I can't give you any technical details as to why, but pushing the hammer down on a loaded chamber is just asking for a negligent discharge.

Either use the decocker or release the mag, switch safety off, rack slide, check the chamber, and pull the trigger (all in a safe direction of course)

Leave the manual de-cocking to the Hollyweird guys.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Never bothered me doing it with my CZ-97B. I've lowered the hammer on a loaded chamber many times. You've just got to be careful; don't do it if you're barely awake or whatever.

On a double-action auto with no decocker, it's the only way to carry with the hammer down. What do you think people do with revolvers? No decockers on revolvers.

 

[BHPshooter]

...but it also looks like plenty of people decock this way, 1911s, BHPs, CZs, etc.

Any 1911 or BHP guy worth his salt will NOT decock his pistol when it's loaded. Manually decocking is a hazardous operation -- if you slip, I don't think you'll break your thumb... you'll have a negligent discharge and may hurt or kill someone.

Additionally, decocking a 1911 or a Hi Power (or any other Single Action gun) is an exercise in stupidity. These are meant to be carried cocked and locked. It's the safest way to do it, and it leaves the gun in its utmost state of readiness.

Cocking the hammer is harder under pressure than one might think. It's almost as bad an idea as decocking.

Leave it cocked, just put the safety on and keep it in a holster. You'll do just fine.

Wes

 

[Nightcrawler]

Leave it cocked, just put the safety on and keep it in a holster. You'll do just fine.

Beg to differ. I can't reach the safety on my CZ-97; it's on the wrong side. So, carrying with the hammer down is the only option for me.

However, also being a revolver shooter, I'm comfortable with manually lowering hammers. If you shoot a SA/DA revolver, it's an absolutely necessary skill.

 

[strambo]

Won't go into an always or never argument. However, if the gun has a decocker it is much safer to use it. The decocker makes it so that the gun cannot fire when the hammer lowers. If you slip with the manual method, the gun will fire. Yes no machine is 100%, but a mistake doing it yourself will almost certainly result in a discharge. If you have no decocker, then you do what you gotta do.

As far as double action revolvers go, chambering a round does not result in a hammer being cocked, the hammer is only back if you crank it there, and hopefully if you pull the hammer back on a loaded DA revolver, it's because you intend to fire it and are in a safe place to do it. If your chambering a round in your DA auto carry gun, while it is pointed in a safe direction, you have no intention of firing it and probably aren't in a place where a discharge would be acceptable so the safest method of placing the weapon in DA mode for this routine event is desireable, hence the invention of the decocker.

 

[WheelMan]

Assuming that every time you thumb back a DA revolver you're going to shoot it is pretty silly. What if you're hunting and that buck bolts into the thick at the last minute leaving you no shot. What if you're at the range at it suddenly doesn't become safe to shoot (somebody in front of the firing line, etc)? Keep in mind that most revolvers won't allow you to open the crane with the hammer back.

As Nightcrawler pointed out lowering the hammer is an absolutely necessary skill with DA revolvers, which makes it extra funny that "auto-oriented" people are so afraid of it.

 

[otomik]

As Nightcrawler pointed out lowering the hammer is an absolutely necessary skill with DA revolvers, which makes it extra funny that "auto-oriented" people are so afraid of it.

how is that so funny? yes i posted this in the general handgun discussion rather than autoloader because i wanted input from revolver people but aside from a accidental discharge autoloading people have the possibility of the slide coming back and breaking their thumb which you DA revolver people don't have to worry about.

The CZ-97 manual page 20 (page 7 of PDF file) under "engaging the safety mode" it says to lower the hammer manually.
http://www.cz-usa.com/support.dat/Instruction Manuals/Instruction_Manual_CZ_97.pdf

i just started watching "24" from a friend's boxed DVD set, it looks like a SIG P228 Two Tone to me. but later he steals another Fed's Glock, he's a busy guy, maybe he switches guns a lot (i'm only at 8:48:40 AM of the first season). some guns don't have decocking levers, rather than relying on the lever perhaps to shooters like Jack Bauer it makes more sense to decock with a method common to all autopistols

 

[Larryect]

If you manually decock a SIG you are bypassing at least 2 safeties if I remember correctly. The manual specifically says NOT to do this. The ONLY safe way to decock is with the decocking lever.

While pulling the trigger you are preparing the gun to fire by moving the firing pin block safety. Not a good thing if you do not want it to fire.

 

[strambo]

Assuming that every time you thumb back a DA revolver you're going to shoot it is pretty silly

Thats not what I said, or what I meant.

What if you're hunting and that buck bolts into the thick at the last minute leaving you no shot. What if you're at the range at it suddenly doesn't become safe to shoot (somebody in front of the firing line, etc)

These are all situations/locations where you intended to fire, then decide not to for whatever reason. When loading a DA/SA auto, the hammer is cocked EVERY time and it must be lowered to put it back in DA mode. When loading a DA revolver the hammer is not cocked and there is no reason to cock it unless you intend to shoot it in SA mode. If your intentions change for whatever reason, fine, then lower the hammer safely as there is no decocker. Yes, this is a necessary skill (and one I possess as I own a DA revolver as well.)

I'm not "afraid" of manually lowering a hammer. I just think if there is a safer option on a particular gun (like a decocker, what this thread is about) then the odds of a negligent discharge would be less if you use it.

 

[WheelMan]

It's "funny" because what is a nessicary skill for one camp is a "don't ever do that, that's the stupidest thing you can do" for the other.

Personally I think an ND is orders of magnitude worse than a smacked thumb. I really don't think it would break, as if you're doing it correctly you're pinching the hammer between thumb and fingers (that's not to protect your thumb, but to better control the hammer).

 

[WheelMan]

strambo,

I can agree with all that, I should have read more carefully, I thought we had something to argue about

 

[strambo]

Cool, lets save our verbal ammo for important stuff like caliber wars.

 

[Chuck Dye]

The decocker on my SIG-Sauer P226 drops the hammer only as fast as I let the decocker rise. Even if the hammer somehow missed or overrode the safety step it is unlikely a round in the chamber would go off. The added mass and resistance of the decocking mechanism lead me to think that even if I completely released the decocker at the bottom its stroke AND held the trigger far enough aft that the firing pin safety was off, the resulting hammer strike might well be too light to fire the round. I am now playing with the thought experiment to decide if there is a safe way to test the hypothesis. Wish I had some primed empties.

I have no doubt that fumble thumbing a fully manual hammer drop can fire a round and no wish to test the idea.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've been manually de-cocking my pistols for 50 years with never a problem so I don't think I'll change now.

Kind of like a helicopter check pilot wanting me to change the way I made my approach, after I had made over 115,000 landings.

No, I don't think so.

 

[cracked butt]

I don't know about sigs or USPs, but the only way to safely decock a beretta 92 is to use the decocker. The decocker rotates the firing pin transfer bar 90 degrees away from the hammer before the hammer drops. To decock the pistol without the decocker is simply foolish- the hammer isn't very big and isn't as easy to grip as on a DA revolver.

 

[Majic]

To decock a handgun manually doesn't require you to hold the trigger back till the hammer is fully lowered. As you control the hammer you release the sear with the trigger then let off the trigger as you lower the hammer. If the hammer slips then the gun won't fire.
Revolver shooters have been doing this for ages and it is strange that so many pistol shooters are afraid of this. It's just a technique to learn like anything else.

 

[TonyB]

I have an older Taurus PT99..it has ne decocker...although I usually go cocked and locked,if I do want to go DA I HAVE to manually decock it...REALLY CAREFULLY

 

[liliysdad]

Manually decocked just about every gun Ive ever been around . Wonder Im still alive, or that my thumbs are intact.

 

[riverdog]

Since my auto's are predominantly 1911's, decocking is never a consideration, it just isn't done. Decocking a revolver is no big deal, I've done that countless times.

Now, how do you decock a Glock?

 

[M2 Carbine]

QUOTE
"Majic
Senior Member

Registered: May 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1727
To decock a handgun manually doesn't require you to hold the trigger back till the hammer is fully lowered. As you control the hammer you release the sear with the trigger then let off the trigger as you lower the hammer. If the hammer slips then the gun won't fire.
Revolver shooters have been doing this for ages and it is strange that so many pistol shooters are afraid of this. It's just a technique to learn like anything else."


Good point Majic.
It's surprising how many people don't know this.

I don't own any but I will agree on some guns the hammer is so small and the design of the gun makes decocking the safer method.


In the late 50's, the first time I used the thumb safety on my new P-38,and the hammer fell I thought the gun was defective.

 

[Mal H]

Like M2 Carbine, I've been manually decocking all kinds of guns for a long time (not ones with a decocking lever - use it if it's got it). Sounds like my technique may be different from the norm, however. I always use two hands and I place a finger or thumb between the hammer and the firing pin as I hold the hammer with shooting hand thumb, pull the trigger, let the hammer go forward a short distance and release the trigger, controlling the hammer as it goes down I can then remove my intervening finger. I would much rather have a pinched finger than an ND.

Decocking a gun with one hand, Hollywood style, seems to me like asking for trouble.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Mal H

I do exactly the same thing on guns big enough (1911) to get my thumb in front of the hammer.

On revolvers and small autos I do like Majic said, pull the trigger to release the hammer, release the trigger and lower the hammer.

I don't think about it, it's just a normal thing for me to lower the hammer if I'm not going to fire right away.


But whatever is best and safe for the individual is what they should do.

 

[Chuck Dye]

I can report success... of sorts. By holding the trigger back and releasing the decocking lever smartly from the very bottom of its stroke, my P226 will fire.

 

[pauli]

man. sounds like a couple of my basic pistols class instructors are in here

i gotta say, decocking does make me vaguely nervous... it just seems out of character with the rules of general gun safety. maybe that's why i've been turning into a bit of an xd fanboy... i like the concept of no external hammer to screw around with

the idea of decocking does bother me a lot less with a revolver, though.