Marlin 45-70

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76shuvlinoff

76shuvlinoff

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I've always avoided starting this thread because I don't hunt any more. I just happen to enjoy levers, especially pre Rem Marlin Levers. I own a 56 and 77 39A and a 79 1894c 357. ( I also have a Win 30-30) These are fine for the critters in my neighborhood and they plink well but for some dumb reason I find myself wanting to try on a 45-70. Am I nuts? I am not a fan of huge recoil, I do not reload.. yet. Is 45-70 ammo availability any more of an issue than any other cal these days?

My max recoil producer on hand would be a Rem 870 with 2 3/4" 7/8 and 1 oz slugs. Would that be even close?

I don't know anyone with one to try out but something about this legendary thumper keeps drawing me in. I have not purchased a firearm in well over a year (last was a Colt 6920) and right now I am craving a 45-70 lever or a good coach gun.

BTW all the concern about recoil stems from a mucked up shooting shoulder from loosing a fight with an suv while mounted on my motorcycle in 03. If I run a full mag from my 870 my eyes can get a little wet.... but I'm grinning.

Mark
 
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I just picked up an 1895g - it's a REM, and I love it! The recoil is manageable with LeverEvolution rounds. It's also more accurate than I am. I'm planning to load some heavier bullets in the near future. I have some 350's, 405's, 420's, 500's and 540's to play with. I'm on the hunt for load data for the big ones.

I'm not going for blazing fast, just locomotive qualities.
 
I only owned a .45-70 for a little while (the Marlin guide gun). My limited experience shows that like many rounds, you can go high or low. The cowboy loads made for .45-70 hardly kick at all. I never shot anything .45-70 that kicked as hard as 12 gauge slugs, but I only tried commercial loads.
 
I don't think finding ammo will be an issue as long as your shopping range is bigger than Wal Mart. The LGS around me have it more often than not. It is more expensive than a 30-30 but nothing like, say, a .375 win. It is also readily available online from Midway, Cabelas, etc.

As for shooting it I know nothing. Never shot one. But I also like levers and will have one in 45-70 one day. The old calibers fascinate me.
 
I got a GG from the first run. Factory Remington 405gr ammo is easy. Winchester 300gr is a tiny bit stiffer. Garrett gives a nice shove. My reloads (still well below max) are called 'Rhino Rollers' by my shooting buddys and are 'brisk'. If you can shoot 12ga slugs, no worries.
 
My 1895G loaded with hard cast 405gr bullets loaded hot is the most painful thing I have ever shot. That includes a 470NE. But, those are loaded like Buffalo Bore ammo... Not for the faint of heart. But that is not required. With normal factory ammo I find it to be pleasant.
 
The recoil of the 45-70 is stout but manageable. It's less than shooting a pump 12 gauge. The recoil of the Marlin 1895 is better with a good recoil pad. Avoid shooting it from the bench.

Get one and try it. Worse that could happen is that it brings tears to your eyes and you trade it for a Marlin 32 H&R Magnum :D
 
I like my GG. If you can handle the above slugs you can handle Govt loads. If you're worried, get a longer barreled job: I kinda like those but I can't justify it. I really like having a bit of history with a modern twist. Plus, if you ever want to be mean, alternate govt with some Corbon or other hot loads and see your friends squirm...but I don't even think those are that bad.

Greg
 
I bought a Marlin 1895GBL about two months ago and love it. I've been reloading for quite a while and just started casting bullets a few months ago. With bad knees and a bad back, my hunting days are in the past, so I mainly target shoot for enjoyment. Nowdays, most of my shooting is with revolvers in 44 spl, 44 mag and 45 colt. It's a lot easier to slow things down with revolvers. I also have several lever action rifles in handgun calibers. I cast 340 and 405 grain bullets for the 45-70 and keep the velocities down to around 1500 fps or less. Recoil is mild and the fun factor is high. The only factory loads I have shot are the Hornady Leverelovution 325 grain rounds. I shot 4 boxes of those the first time out at the range. Recoil didn't seem too bad, but my shoulder was sore the next day.
 
Robert said:
My 1895G loaded with hard cast 405gr bullets loaded hot is the most painful thing I have ever shot. That includes a 470NE. But, those are loaded like Buffalo Bore ammo... Not for the faint of heart. But that is not required. With normal factory ammo I find it to be pleasant.
Click to expand...
Mike Venturino proved that loading a heavy bullet in a 45/70 does not have to go over 14-1500 FPS to penetrate 6ft of buffalo. Another guy named that writes for guns and ammo first name Brian shot a male cape buffalo at 1500 FPS and it went thru the male and killed a female that the big male was blocking. No need to try to reach 2000 FPS
 
With the old Blackpowder equivalent loads you are looking at around 22-23 ft lbs of recoil. That is slightly less than 12 ga slugs and about what you'd expect from hot 30-06 loads or mild 300 mag loads.

If you step up to the hottest loads available you are looking at 50-55 ft lbs if recoil. That puts you squarely in the 375-416 magnum levels. I've fired some of those and want no part of them, especially from the Marlins poorly designed stock which magnifies recoil making it feel much worse than it really is. If I'm getting kicked that hard I will be using something that kicks just as hard from the muzzle end.

I've owned several Marlin 45-70's dating back to 1976. I used them some, liked them at first, but eventually grew tired of getting that much recoil for so little performance. I sold my last one 2-3 years ago.
 
A little over two years ago I owned three Marlin lever actions in .45-70 Govt including an XLR, Guide Gun and SBL. All three were excellent rifles but I ended up selling the XLR and Guide Gun because the SBL is the perfect big bore lever action rifle for me. If you're looking for an outstanding factory load for hunting then look no further than the 300gr TSX load from Barnes. Recoil is very manageable and the load is sub moa at 100 yards from my SBL. I took that rifle and load deer hunting last fall but didn't spot a nice doe until well past sunset.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/73...-shock-x-bullet-flat-nose-lead-free-box-of-20
 
Even though I am a diehard blue steel and wood guy when it comes to levers that SBL looks like a fine modern lever. I don't enjoy ported guns and in my opinion any lever looks better with a full length mag tube on it... but that's just me.

I think my quest is going to be temporarily delayed. I just backed into a car at work. My old pickup got a smudge, her Buick didn't fare that well so I'll be dipping into the fun fund.

Thanks for the comments!
 
The 45-70 can literally be a plinking gun. Or, it can go to Africa. A 405 grn bullet at 1100-1300 fps is nothing compared to a slug from an 870. The LeverEvolution ammo is very shoulder friendly. Where the real thump of the 45-70 comes into play is when throwing big lead (405-550 grn) fast (1700-2000 fps). It's not the shoulder breaker some people claim. BUT, it can be if you want it to be.
 
Can anyone tell me how the hottest .45-70 loads compare to12 slugs like the Brenneke Black Magic 3" slug? I have those and can fire a few of them before my shoulder revolts but they aren't really for fun shooting anyway. I shot 3 in a row once just to make sure I could stand it if I was faced with a bear situation. It hurt but I survived. That was from an 870 Express with a Limbsaver pad on it. I've thought about buying a guide gun before but wondered about the kick. That's not what kept me from buying one. I ended up buying a CZ 453 instead. I love that rifle.
 
Cee Zee said:
Can anyone tell me how the hottest .45-70 loads compare to12 slugs like the Brenneke Black Magic 3" slug?
Click to expand...

I've shot a bunch of 405gr bullets at around 1,900 fps and the felt recoil is no where near as bad as a 600gr payload at 1,500 fps from an 870 pump action such as the Express Tactical or the Express Synthetic 7-round. I have an SBL and both of the shotguns mentioned. A recoil calculator indicates about a 25% increase in felt recoil with the shotgun.
 
Hey Mark, If you live in SE MI PM me and I'll let you shoot mine sometime when the weather breaks a bit.

I took a doe with it this year and, well, it did the job with a 300gnHP at 1800+fps. I consiter it one of my "fun guns"

It IS fun. Everyone needs one IMO
 
Craig, I am west of you and not that far away. Who knows, in warmer weather I may just take you up on that!

Thanks!
 
My Marlin 45-70 Guide gun is a pussycat. That said, I have tried a few handloader's rounds that did wake me up. But even that was nothing compared to a Marlin chambered in 450 Marlin, that was crazy.

If you do get a 1895, seriously consider the Wild West Guns trigger happy kit, it's a high value upgrade IMO.
 
As was stated, in the GG the blackpowder-power-level loads are easy on the shoulder. I really don't see that much difference on my shoulder from a Win 94 .30-30 or Marlin 336 in .35 Rem.

It is VERY easy to load for, almost like a giant rimmed handgun round, and you can go from one extreme to another with ease. As for high-end loads; I have brewed up quite a few 405 JSP's with a hefty charge of IMR 3031 that'll make 3 shots in a row feel like a loooooong day at the bench. I would take these to Africa for a buffalo with no worries.

Don't be intimidated; its internet bark is worse than it's bite.
 
Thanks for the input. I know this might be like asking an oil question on a Harley forum but from you owners, is there any model more coveted than the rest?

I prefer full length mag tubes and in my opinion the GBL is a handsome rifle but then I like the look of a laminate stock. Any cons to the laminated woodwork?
 
Another question if someone has the time. Last one, I (almost) promise.

Are there benefits or negatives when it come to the 1895 Cowboy (26" barrel?) vs the 1895 GBL 18.5" barrel with the 45-70 round? Remember, I don't hunt so moving through brush is not really a concern. Seeing as this is not considered a long range round am I just adding unnecessary weight? 8 lbs vs 7.
 
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Are there benefits or negatives when it come to the 1895 Cowboy (26" barrel?) vs the 1895 GBL 18.5" barrel with the 45-70 round?
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The difference in sound level to the shooter is one difference...

The longer barrel may or may not give you more velocity depending on load...Slower powders can generally take advantage of the longer barrel...

Longer sight plane with iron sights on the longer barrel...
 
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