Maryland and CCW...think it could EVER happen?

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ZombieHunter

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Maryland...A Brady Bill Top 5 State /puke
I've lived here all my life (a whole 24 years) and I've watched the neighborhood around me go from an ok place with the normal young troublemakers to a place where the corner convience stores now actually get robbed. School shootings aren't something that happens to "other people", there has been at least one discharge at my old highschool (one I have and will again substitute at), other highschools are full of kids with no respect or respect for the wrong things.

Baltimore has a horrible violent crime rate and it's no longer confined to Baltimore. Laurel, Bowie, the 'burbs around Baltimore and Annapolis all seem to have had a surge in gang and drug crime, MS13 is apparently very large down here. Even my little town has enough gang-like activity that I grow concerned. The Mall I frequent was once a decent place but it has since become much less desireable, and commands a constant police presense. Violent crimes happen there now with enough regularity where I dislike walking to my car after the movies (our mall-cops are laughable at best...fat guys on Segweys (sp)).

Is there anything that can be done or is being done? Or should I just wait to be a victim and then sue the state for denying me my right to a reasonable self-defense? That's really not where I want to end up...the line between filing that lawsuit and being a statistic just isn't wide enough for me. Moving out of state is not currently an option as I'm broke and dealing with school, family and girlfriend issues. I've even had discussions with my best friend (a LEO) about the ramifications of illegally carrying (something I could legally do in 39 other states ).

Maryland is decidedly blue. We recently voted out a Rep. Governor who ran a good ship and fixed most of the problems handed to him by the previous blue in favor of a Mayor who watched as violent crime in Baltimore steadly marched upwards. First thing he did in office was raise sales tax, cigarette tax and bring back up the same Slot machine argument that everyone was against before because it was a Republican trying to put it forward (most likely this will pass).

I've thought about writing an editorial and trying to make people aware but I just don't feel that there's any desire in MD for change. If I were to make an attempt at bringing this to people's minds what would you suggest I mention? I like the SCOTUS cases showing that our self defense is not the responsibility of the police and I like the facts and figures surrounding the drops in violent crime that come from states with CCW. But in the end I'm left fighting the uphill battle of Logic and Reason vs. Emotion and What-About-the-Children.

Any help would be appreciated, anyone remember what happened in your state that let you become Shall-Issue vs. May-Issue?
 
Maryland is beyond redemption. The politicians here are determined to drive gun stores out of business and make purchasing guns so long and complicated a process as to discourage the most patient of shooters. I just had a magazine order turned down because the state doesn't allow the purchase of 20-round+ magazines.

All handguns sales have to go through an FFL or the police. When transferring a handgun, one cannot even take the gun into the police barracks. A police officer will escort you to your car and make the transfer there.

To give you an idea of the idiocy we deal with, remember the beltway snipers? The Maryland police actually asked law abiding citizens to voluntarily surrender their .223 rifles so they could be checked against the bullets fired by the snipers. Since there are so many problems with the "logic" here, I won't even go into it, but suffice it to say they're morons.

For further information, check out this website especially for Maryland shooters.

I'm looking forward to moving to Virginia during the next few months.
 
Concealed carry, in Maryland? Sure, if you're rich and/or politically connected. For the unwashed masses? I'll hold my breath.

(Formerly living in Harford County)
 
Is there anything that can be done or is being done? Or should I just wait to be a victim and then sue the state for denying me my right to a reasonable self-defense?
Click to expand...

Good luck with that law suit, eh? Believe it or not, states write the rules to make it extremely difficult for mere commoners to sue them.

All that's assuming you live long enough to file a suit, mind.
 
I know exactly what you mean. I live in Maryland too and it is totally ridiculous. I couldn't get a CCW permit anyway as I'm only 17 but I still realize how much we need them and how much I want one once I turn 21. I'm only 17 and know more about firearms, safety, and justified/responsible use of them than anyone else I know yet the fact that there are people who are older and know more than I do that still are deined permits in a place like baltimore is just shocking. Just being in the city scares me. Also ZombieHunter is right about the governor. Martin O'Malley has no idea what he is doing and knows nothing about anything. He is all talk no action and his talk is stupid anyway. Confederate is right too as of right now MD won't do anyhting, sadly more and more will be lost to gangs in baltimore, and they won't let us stop them. I can only pray for this seemingly doomed state. Even when I'm older I can't move out either because there are too many friends that I love here so we will just have to put up with it I guess.
 
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Maryland is beyond redemption.
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I hate to be rude, but with an attitude like that, good riddance. MD is no more "beyond redemption" than anywhere else. Do you remember the recent fight regarding the proposed MD state AWB? You know, the one that we beat?

You know how that happened? Tons of people (me included) wrote letters, made phone calls, and showed up at the hearings in Annapolis to let the politicians know that we wouldn't stand for it.

MD is in NO WAY beyond redemption. We've got a great community of shooters here who (unlike some here) are actually doing something to make sure that the anti's have to fight tooth & nail to get their ridiculous legislation passed. Yes, we may not have CCW yet, but you can be damn sure that we're working on it.

Like I said, I'm sorry to come off as rude, but honestly, if you're not doing anything to help, who cares what you have to say? I understand that other states who border us have better gun laws - but what do you think will happen when you run from the fight here? It's not going to stay within our borders. If you run from the fight here, you'll be running everywhere. Those of us who remain are doing the best we can, and it IS making a difference. Period, end of story.
 
so we will just have to put up with it I guess.
Click to expand...

Soldier - You don't have to put up with it. Have you been to mdshooters.com? If not, join up, and start looking at what's being done to counteract the various anti-gun bills that the idiots in charge are attempting to pass. Write letters, make calls, and show up at the hearings to let them know why their attempts to disarm good people will not fly in this state.

It's already being done, and we are making progress. You're still young - if you start now, and work at keeping the morons on their toes, things will change.

You'll be in college soon too, I assume. College is a perfect place to start talking to people and helping them understand just how much they're being sold down the river. Think about it - what's one of the most important places that you'd want to be able to CCW? That's right - in your classroom, where any freak can come along and unleash havok. Talk to your friends, explain to them just how stupid the the current laws are - and show them what they can do to fight against them.
 
Hey, don't give up hope. I live in another famously liberal state that starts with an 'M', and before 2003 I would not have guessed that our state would pass one of the better carry laws in the nation (short of Vermont & Alaska, of course... but that'd really be dreaming). Get educated, get involved, educate others, work for change.

Failing that, move back here. :)
 
Kingpin008: You're not being rude, but you're not being terribly realistic, either. Those of us in Maryland know unequal the battle is, and we know our politicians. We have a registry list, manufacturers have to include a spent shell from each gun, we just missed a tax on each individual cartridge, and our government here is so corrupt and it spends like a drunken sailor. Each year, gun stores decrease dramatically and the prices of guns here are far more than what the rest of you guys pay.

If I were in Virginia, I'd have a better attitude. As for now, things are like they are.
 
You're correct - those of us in MD know how unequal the battle is, but the thing of it is, many of us are actively fighting to even the odds, instead of giving up and moving away. The only way to get what we want (and deserve) is to fight. And we are fighting.

We don't have a registry - None of my guns are registered. I filled out the appropriate forms, and that's it. We didn't just miss a tax on each individual cartridge, we fought it and it wasn't approved. And as for the gov't here being corrupt and spending like a drunken sailor...well, welcome to US politics. We're not exactly breaking the mold on that one.

I'd be interested to see how many gun shops close their doors from year to year, actually. Not calling you a liar by a long shot - I'm simply curious. I'd also like to see a breakdown of the reasons the shops that did close gave for why they did it. I don't necessarily equate shops closing or moving with the state being an unfriendly place to do business.

I guess what I'm saying, is that by professing us to be beyond redemption, you're the one causing the problem. I may not be being realistic, but at least I have the type of attitude that can do some good. You, on the other hand, seem to have given up. Which, while regrettable, is your choice and I have to respect that. (even if I don't agree with it) But by spreading such broad and ultimately false statements, you do the rest of us who are still doing our best to preserve and restore our rights a disservice. Whether you mean to or not, it hurts.
 
I think MD is on the pro-CCW path. If the Eastern Shore and counties west of Baltimore had their way...Maryland would already be a "shall issue" state.

Once Heller is decided, I expect a multitude of lawsuits against anti-rights states and politicians (on the federeal level, "sovereign immunity" is, at best, extremely limited against politicians who violate their oaths of office).
Every state in the union accepted the U.S. Constitution...meaning they accepted all rights contained therein.
It's up to us via the NRA, GOA or any other pro-rights groups; to ensure governments follow their extremely limited authority.

And, once those politicians realize if they violate our rights, they will personally be financially responsible for any legal actions..maybe they'll change their tune.
 
Same thing on a national level. A few urban areas make the decisions. A shame. But everyone needs an unwinnable fight against overwhelming odds, don't they?
 
There is a gun registry...not registration, but a list of "approved" guns. If a gun is not on that registry, it can't be transferred to another private citizen in the state. Right now, for example, I can't buy a Ruger Charger because it isn't on the list. Next week, it should be. But people in other states have been buying them like hotcakes.

Unfortunately, in a democracy (and this country has been a democracy since the War of 1861) "fighting" does no good unless you can sway the majority.

Maryland has some of the most leftist politicians in the country. With record deficits, it's spending millions to convert shools to "green" (environmentally friendly). The pro-gun forces have to watch the assembly like hawks because once we stop watching them, they have taxes and rules in mind that would drive gun stores and ammunition sales out of the state.

I don't ever recall them signing anything that could be called "pro-gun" into law since I got here 12 years ago.


DAVIS_380_2.gif

Guns like this Davis are not on the registry. Not because they don't work,
but because they're made largely from zinc, which is light, rust-resistent and
inexpensive.
 
Yes, there is a roster of approved firearms, but once again, I don't see how that's any different from a number of other states. We're not alone on that front. In fact, we're quite different in that our roster of approved firearms is much easier to expand than ones in other states.

Let's take Cali, for example - getting a gun approved for sale there can be a multi-year ordeal, if it happens at all. Here, there is a much better chance of having a gun approved - it happens regularly, in fact. Look at the Ruger Charger you mentioned, as well as the Ruger LCP. Neither were approved, but the LCP was recently, as will be the Charger.

As far as nothing pro-gun being signed, I will have to do a little digging, as I'm admittedly not as familiar with all the bills that have been passed in the last decade, but I can tell you that there have been numerous bills that would have severely harmed the gun rights community defeated before they were able to make it out of hearings.

The proposed AWB, for example. Would have banned virtually EVERY semi-auto firearm (including long guns) in the state of MD. We've prevented it from passing for YEARS. And the ammo tax bill. We're not paying hundreds of dollars for a box of ammo right now, are we? That's proof that we're not "beyond redemption" as you stated earlier.

So indeed, there may not have been any major pro-gun legislation passed in recent memory, but how many of the proposed anti-gun bills have passed?

Right. Not a whole lot. Because we haven't stopped watching, and we never will. None of us should ever stop watching our what our representatives are up to, whether it's in regards to gun rights or any other of our rights or freedoms.

We also have at least one Senator (Nancy Jacobs) who not only is a CCW holder, but has been actively fighting for our 2A rights here in MD, including being a vocal supporter in the fight to change the language of the current laws governing CCW licensing in the state to remove the "good and substantial reason" clause.

Those are all good things, and reasons to keep fighting. While you may look at the situation and see nothing pro-gun being passed, I see nothing anti-gun being passed, and a whole lot of pro-gun people rising up and supporting each other and their communities to make sure that those in charge don't have a chance to steamroll their nonsense through the system. Every time we show up to meetings, and write letters, and call their offices to let them know we're not going to play along, we tell them that by keeping up with the agenda they're pushing, they're ensuring that they'll be traveling a hard road. And that's the best weapon we've got - making it plain that we won't be pushed.
 
I feel your pain. I live in Northern VA, it might as well be Montgomery County with the Cost of Living, etc. Still, it's VA and the state has all these nifty pre-emption laws forbidding localities from passing their own ordnances.

What can we, in VA do to help you all out? Maybe show up at hearings and help voice the "Shall issue" battle cry?

Anything we can do, please let us know. It's easier to prevent new laws from being enacted in our state when they can be smashed down in another.
 
ZombieHunter - Thanks, but I'll be the first to say, the real heavy hitters in the fight are folks like Norton, Spot77, and many of the other regulars over on the mdshooters.com forum. I've been doing what I can, but they've been fighting longer and harder than I have been.

Senator Jacobs is great. She was one of I think two or three representatives that actually answered me back when I was writing letters to the representatives in opposition of the proposed AWB. In fact, when she wrote me back thanking her for contacting her, I wrote her back thanking her for caring enough to fight, and we corresponded briefly for awhile after that. No form letters, all seemed to be directly from her. Granted they weren't the longest emails, but you could tell that even if a staffer had written them, she had had a hand in what the letter said.

Tinygnat - thanks for the support man, I think I speak for all of us here when I say that it's greatly appreciated. That's part of the problem with folks who post things like states being beyond redemption, or suchlike - it's essentially a condemnation, a sign of an indiviual washing their hands of a situation that will continue to affect them, no matter where they go. It bothers me when people tell those of us that live in states that are less than friendly to 2A rights to "move away", and things like that. It's insulting, on many levels. For one, my home is in MD. My family is in MD. Guns and gun rights are intensely important to me, but family comes first. period. And also, if we run, the anti's will follow. End of story. Leaving the state will do nothing but weaken the community of gun owners that we have here, waiting and willing to fight these ridiculous laws, and keep the anti's on their toes. Moving away and leaving the rest of the folks here to fight isn't fair. If I'm not willing to stay and help, I can't complain if the ship sinks. Ya know?

As far as helping, I don't know what ya'll who live out of state can do, other than keep standing behind all of us who are keeping the pressure on in states that have a harder fight than most. Stand behind the folks in Cali, who are fighting a WAY harder battle than we are here. Support the people who are doing what they can with what they've got. Because NONE of us are beyond redemption. None. The only possible way we could get to that point is if every one of us who cares about the gun rights of citizens of this country totally and completely gave up en masse, and I can't ever see that happening.
 
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