Mega Thread of Batoning Wisdom

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Well then the one wrong way is one way to do it. Finely common ground :)

I would like to see someone do that with their core temperature lowered and shivering...
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I dont want to be flip with you,but... I dont think anyone here is saying that you have to baton wood in order to make fire. It seems your going into this thinking that I am saying the only way to survive in the outdoors is to baton. BATON OR DIE , MAN, Little karate kid II reference.

Back to the Busse I have never seen a busse folder I would imagine they carried a hefty price tag. Busse obviously cost more than Cold Steel, but by cold steel ad's I would think they would carry a similar warranty. Just my observation. Also I am sure their are thousands of happy CS knife owners out there. I know they dont crack at the sight of hard use. They have a good rep amongest cold steel owners.
 
36CVz.jpg

The cold steel knife I was most intersted in. Cold Steel master hunter Made In the USA. Discontinued but they float around on ebay from time to time. I'm pretty sure their production is now all over seas.
 
It seems telling that Cold Steel, with their very liberal warranty policy, would seemingly have enough warranty claims from this type of use that they would need to make an official press release and warranty disclaimer.
That alone is a pretty good indication of the effect that batoning has on a knife, isn't it?
 
Tools For Jobs

I can't believe that people are getting worked-up over splitting wood.
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Well, actually, it's more about perceived tool abuse.

I have a really nice wood chisel. Or at least it was a nice chisel.

I keep it around as a reminder that, while you can use a wood chisel to remove old flooring, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I believe JV can appreciate that sentiment.

:D

 
I can't believe that people are getting worked-up over splitting wood.
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Ah the wonders of internet debate.

I have a really nice wood chisel. Or at least it was a nice chisel.
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good point. In the spirit of that statement I can think back to few tools that were nice until they bacame a hammer, pry bar or something. Fortunatly a few them were craftsmen.
 
I have absolute faith that my ESEE-6 will not break from batonning. Anyone making the claim that going into the woods without a saw, axe, etc is is foolish is not a hiker. Weight matters. These are often the same people that advocate a shotgun for hiking in the lower 48; couch hikers who have seldom, if ever, actually put many miles and elevation changes that measure in the thousands of feet behind them.

If the CS broke while batonning, it was simply the wrong knife, not the wrong technique. I have gone out on cold WET days here in the Pacific Northwest and attempted to start fires using only the stuff I normally carry on a hike or backpacking trip. Sometimes it just doesn't go well, sometime it does. Every time, however, I learn something. (The first thing we all learn up here is that anything laying on the ground is rotten, and useless for starting or keeping a fire) One of the tricks to staring a fire here the soggy PNW is to open up the wood to get to the center where it's dry. That means batonning.

Making fire in theory, or making it under good conditions, is NOTHING like making it under the conditions one might need a fire- when it's cold and wet.

On the day these pictures were taken it had been raining nonstop for weeks, and it was raining on me while I did the exercise. Nothing was 'set up' that is to say that I used only what I brought and only what was available around me. I parked the jeep at a random location, hiked into the woods, and began the exercise. The ESSE-6 took the severe beating in stride, and after I cleaned it up it looked almost as good as new.

Fire1.png


Fire2.png


Fire3.png


Fire5.png


ESEEFire3.png
 
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Seems like it's become an acid test with forum users across the web for whether or not a knife is okay or junk.
I think that's where the disconnect is. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm seeing.
 
There's only one time I need a knife that works as a crow bar--that's opening big Pacific oysters. For that purpose I got a cheap Cold Steel throwing knife and it works fine.
 
ArfinGreebly,

Yep. I can.

Chisels that have been used to pry open paint cans, files/rasps that have been used as swords, knife screw driver, power drill hammer...sigh. I have witnessed it all, unfortunately.

Moreover, I have seen what sharp tools can do when improperly used. For example, a slashed thumb tendon that required surgery, but was still left crooked (knife as a pry bar vs. paint can lid).

About your chisel
It is relatively easy to find out what steel the chisel is, and resuscitate it, or have it resuscitated for you. If it is a really nice one it might be worth it.


lobo,

Look, I know you have good intentions and simply want to explore the issue. What I would recommend, though, is that you rummage through literature to find elegant ways of bypassing the need for batoning. If you are truly interested in bushcraft you will find it worth your while. I have.

SuperNaut sez:

I can't believe that people are getting worked-up over splitting wood.
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How do you know any of us are "worked-up"? Apparently anything not completely lukewarm is a "hot debate" in your opinion?

Mainsail,

Nice. There will be a response - with images :D
 
Anyone making the claim that going into the woods without a saw, axe, etc is is foolish is not a hiker. Weight matters. These are often the same people that advocate a shotgun for hiking in the lower 48; couch hikers who have seldom, if ever, actually put many miles and elevation changes that measure in the thousands of feet behind them. ~ Mainsail
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Now that's funny. You must know everyone who posts on the forum. There are a lot of folks here who have a different opinion on the topic from yours and that does not necessarily make them wrong. My Gerber folding saw weighs 8.4 OZ, when I can't carry that, I will stay home.
 
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I might be new, but that blade/edge combination looked too skinny to rely on batoning that way. I have a Golok recommended by an old SAS guy that I use to split firewood into kindling. The blade itself is fairly robust and the back of the blade is stout enough to take being struck by a wooden baton. Now I wouldn't use the same blade to gut a fish with or slice onions, but it will serve for campground tasks and for occasional social tasks on the slash but not the thrust(being blunt tipped). Using the appropriate tool for the appropriate job I suppose.
 
Bushcraft is for Euro's, I play Rambo.
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Speaking of Rambo and knife, I wish I had bought a couple more of those Buck Master's back in the when they came out and had them today.. Quite a collector piece they have become.

The one I bought was for a present to a good friend.
 
While I am in general going to avoid batoning if at all possible, the following is the truth:
Anyone making the claim that going into the woods without a saw, axe, etc is is foolish is not a hiker.
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Also, those making such a claim are definitely not (US) light infantry, who already carry more than probably any previous ground-pounders in history.

Here is a thread about the Swamp Rat folder.

Busse obviously cost more than Cold Steel, but by cold steel ad's I would think they would carry a similar warranty. Just my observation.
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Nope. CS sells some knives for around $20. It's just not realistic (wow, you're making me defend CS? What the hell? I don't even like them) to expect a company that sells some knives so cheaply to be able to offer a "no questions asked" replacement if you break one, nor is it realistic to expect a $20 knife to be able to stand up to the abuse a $250 knife will. (For comparison, this is the cheapest full-size Busse family knife currently available. It's an incredible bargain, but it's still $90, not including sheath. AFAIK, all CS fixed blades except a few throwers and bush knives do include sheaths, even if they're not great ones.)

John
 
JShirley,

If I remember correctly you own a "full sized" busse? I've been experimenting with edge retention lately, and was wondering what the edge angle of the secondary bevel is on a typical busse cinder block smasher. Also, would be interesting to know how thick the blade is just before the secondary bevel.
 
Two camps ~ Two points of view ~ and they are not coming together. I think everyone should use and carry whatever makes them happy.

the following is the truth:
Quote:
Anyone making the claim that going into the woods without a saw, axe, etc is is foolish is not a hiker.
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Also, those making such a claim are definitely not (US) light infantry,
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Yep, your right... Never served in that branch. My 39 years in the military have been either Engineer or MP Branch. Are you saying your MOS gave you a degree in Master Woodcraft?

I've spent the biggest part of my life as a hunter, camper, and outdoorsman. I went through the whole big knife thing, later dropped that for a small belt axe and more of a utility knife. Still later, changing out the axe for a folding saw that stays in my pack. I doubt my saw and knife weigh as much as one of the mega-choppers.

I guess pointing fingers and making disparaging comments about those who have a different view is the order of the day. High Road My A$$.

Maybe the experts on the forum can let us know when their show(s) debut on the Discovery Channel so the rest of us old fools can learn something.
 
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I had never even heard the term "batoning" before.... Whack on something with a stick and that stick is a "mallet"... A baton is a thing Majorettes twirl... :D

The guy pounding on the back of the knife to drive it through a log should not be surprised at breakage. It was a relatively thin knife, not designed for chopping, much less beating with a chunk of wood. Chopping brush, chopping off little branches for firewood is one thing, pounding and prying is something else.

And belt axes don't have to be large or heavy. ;) A small one can be carried with ease.

http://www.redaviscompany.com/0286.html
 
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