Missouri 9mm RN help

[bob4]

I'm trying to load 115 Gn Missouri RN ( Grooved). I've done it before and still have quite a few that plunk in my gauge. I've also used my barrel to plunk. Xd9. Those are mixed head stamps. The OAL of those is 1.060. It's been a while and I can't remember how I did it. I'm using RCBS 9mm Carbide resizer. Dilloin 550b so in comes the powder charge and slight bell. Bell measures about .015 over un-belled resized brass. RCBS seater die and finally Lee Factory taper crimp. Mixed head stamp brass. All brass measures in the .750-.756 range. I even took one piece down to .747. I have tried different OAL within specs. Some seem to come close after using the taper crimp and some not. I set and reset the dies twice to be sure I didn't miss anything. I'd be happy with close enough if it was consistent. But it bothers me that I have a bunch that plunk like factory ammo and I can't do it again. I's been quite a while since I reloaded this round. . Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

[BC17A]

Assuming you've verified the diameter of the bullets(.356"?), the first thing I'd do is to reset the sizing die to make sure you're getting full length sizing. If that doesn't fix the issue, next would be to increase the crimp on a few of the rounds that won't plunk to see if that helps. Shorter cases won't get as much crimp as the longer ones unless the FCD was originally set for the shortest case.

 

[DanK3Pos]

With the 550, raise the shellplate all the way up and screw the sizing die down until it contacts the shellplate. Then put brass in that station, raise the shellplate up again and tighten the lock ring on the die.

Neither station 2 or 3 are your problem. It is either that the case wasn't properly sized or it wasn't properly crimped.

Put an empty case in station 4, raise the shellplate, tighten the crimp die until it contacts the case mouth. Lower the shellplate and add a half turn to the crimp die. You should be in the ballpark. Now put a loaded round in that station and crimp. Case mouth should be ~.380" adjust until you have that and the completed round passes the plunk test. Don't forget to lock it down with final adjustment.

Here is a good Dillon video on the subject. They are on the 750, but die setup is the same.

 

[Metal God]

I was loading some 115gr 9mm with mixed brass . All of them plunked Fine in my gauge except the Tula cases . For whatever reason they needed an extra quarter to half turn on the crimp die and that was still barely enough I just sort of them all out .

So that would be my next step checking to see if a specific head stamp is the one that’s causing the problems

 

[bob4]

Neither station 2 or 3 are your problem. It is either that the case wasn't properly sized or it wasn't properly crimped.
]

When I resize the brass it slides in and out of the gauge and barrel both. Should be good there right? If so I'll look harder at the crimp.

 

[murf]

can you run your dial calipers up and down the side of your loaded case and check for bulges? you can also measure your crimp with the calipers. let us know the results if you decide to do this.

luck,

murf

 

[bob4]

can you run your dial calipers up and down the side of your loaded case and check for bulges? you can also measure your crimp with the calipers. let us know the results if you decide to do this.

I can give that a try in the morning. Bullets confirmed .356 is is also the same lot that I already have couple hundered, give or take, made that plunk just fine. I have never measured a crimp. Do this with a loaded round I assume as close to the case mouth as possible? Is there a proper amount for 9MM? Should I also measure before I crimp?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

If you don't have enough crimp, when you drag your dial calipers up the case, you will feel resistance when you come to the mouth. if the caliper just falls off the end then you have enough crimp.
I agree with the rest about the crimp and the resizing die adjustment.
I have a question though, is your taper crimp die a Lee Factory Crimp Die or just a Lee taper crimp die. It's hard for me to believe that if your using a Factory Crimp Die that your loaded rounds won't fit all your gauges.
Even if the bullet is crooked the FCD should iron it back out so that it will fit the gauge and barrel, even if it screwed up the bullet in the process.

Take a Sharpy marker and coat one of the offending round completely black on the perimeter of the side of the case. Try it in the barrel or gauge again and see where the marker is rubbed off.

If there is a bright spot on the mouth you don't have enough crimp. If it's on the head (base) then your sizing die is to high or you got a hold of messed up cases that need to be pitched. The Sizing die can only go down on the case so far, until it hits the shell plate so they don't resize the entire case and if the head was blown out from over loading than the cases may not be able to be made to work again.
I usually pitch them, considering they have been compromised. People shooting 9mm Major are over loading on purpose, just as an example.
Also look at the rim of the head to see if there are any burs that are sticking out from the ejectors. That won't show up with the marker test but you should be able to feel that with your fingers.

Something else you need to consider is your using lead bullets, could it be when you loaded these the first time you seated and crimped in two seperate stages?
If you are seating and crimping in one stage now (at the same time), you could be shaving lead up the side of the bullet and it's piling up on top of the mouth.
You can see this if you look really close.

Let us know what you find.

 

[bob4]

Pretty sure it's just a Taper crimp die. Had a slight pause if you will sliding calipers from mouth to base closer to the mouth. Slight adjustment of taper die and that's gone. Also reduced the bell a bit. Here's what I did last night with much improvement. I was getting pretty close so I decided to just to buff the cartridge with some 000 steel wool. Ya know just a few spins with my hand and then extremely close. So I tumbled a good hand full of the brass over night, although they had been cleaned prior but months ago. Very close after the taper die and if I rub them with the wool they are even closer.. I'm still not where I'de like to be but I'm thinking about cleaning the dies. I'm half thinking dirty die but they work perfect right after sizer.

 

[LiveLife]

115 Gn Missouri RN ( Grooved) ... Xd9 ... OAL 1.060 ... RCBS 9mm Carbide resizer ... seater die and finally Lee Factory taper crimp

Any advice greatly appreciated.

I use many factory and aftermarket barrels with tighter chamber and even with larger sized .356" bullets, using .022" added to the bullet diameter (.011" is average case wall thickness) to produce .378" taper crimp will work even in tightest barrel. Sometimes, using too much taper crimp can bulge the brass and not allow the finished round to chamber in tighter barrels.

As to using FCD with larger sized .356" bullets, especially with thicker case wall brass, check to see if post-sizing is occuring and measure before/after feeding/chambering dummy rounds (no powder, no primer) from the magazine for bullet setback. Post-sizing with brass spring back could result in decreased neck tension which could increase bullet setback.

MBC 124 gr RN uses shorter rounder nose profile that increases bullet base length and this requires using shorter OAL to bring the bearing surface of bullet (bullet base that engages the rifling) closer to case mouth to clear the start of rifling. So instead of 1.125" used for typical "stepeed" RN profile bullets with more pointed nose, 1.080" is required.

But if your barrel has shorter leade like my Lone Wolf barrel with very short leade, you need to load even shorter around 1.040" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-oal-col-for-reference.848462/#post-11068321

With new MBC Hi-Tek coated RN (Note slightly flat nose tip), 1.050" will now work in the tightest barrel with shortest leade - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/missouri-9mm-cast-issues.840112/#post-10900458

 

[DanK3Pos]

When I resize the brass it slides in and out of the gauge and barrel both. Should be good there right? If so I'll look harder at the crimp.

If your sizing die is not sizing all the way to the base of the case, it could cause the same problem. I saw elsewhere that you adjusted the taper to eliminate a bit of flair at the neck. That might have been the problem.

Don't forget that overcrimping can damage the bullet and cause problems with primer strikes, etc., because the cartridge seats on the mouth, not the shoulder (necked cartridges) or rim (revolver).

As for bell, I size a case, measure the mouth, zero the calipers on the mouth, then bell it. I'm looking for .010-.020". You can start at .010 and see how well the bullet you are loading sits on the case mouth. I don't really like riding the bullet all the way up to the seating die, so I flare more for 9mm and .40 S&W. Only downside is working the case mouth more and possibly not getting as many reloads. I currently have essentially an unlimited supply of those cases, so I'm not too worried about that issue.

 

[LiveLife]

As for bell ... see how well the bullet you are loading sits on the case mouth. I don't really like riding the bullet all the way up to the seating die, so I flare more for 9mm and .40 S&W. Only downside is working the case mouth more and possibly not getting as many reloads.

If you are minimizing the case mouth flare, inspect the case neck for even bulge around the bullet base.

And if you see case neck bulge only on one side, bullet could be tilting as it is being seated. This could produce oblong/oval shaped case neck and can rub the chamber wall of tighter barrels. Running tilted seated round through FCD could "fix" the round to chamber without rubbing but the bullet remains tilted and won't engage the rifling as well as straight seated bullet and could affect accuracy resulting in flyers/larger group size.

I use enough flare so the bullet base will set straight inside the case mouth which in turn will seat the bullet more straight.

BTW, here's an example of even case neck bulge around the bullet base showing not only sufficient neck tension but straight seated bullet (RMR bullet was loaded with Lee dies using minimal case mouth flare and standard bullet seating stem) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

Note .378" taper crimp of case mouth (sharp 90 degree edge) to headspace with chamber for better sealing of gas.

 

[sequins]

My MBC softball plunks at 1.15"... even TP bullets only go as deep as 1.09".

I feel like something is wrong other than the bullet if it won't work at 1.06", you must be bulging your brass?

 

[LiveLife]

My MBC softball plunks at 1.15"

Depends on the barrel leade length/freebore or whether the barrel was reamed.

My KKM with cut freebore will allow longer OALs - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-oal-col-for-reference.848462/#post-11068318

 

[bob4]

Thanks everyone. I'll reread all this and post back when I have time to get back out to the loading shed. Still have a job , 2.5 acres to mow and a boat that needs me to go Red-fish and Snook hunting one day over most weekends.

 

[bob4]

Sorry took so long to get back. Here's what I did: cleaned and reset all the dies. Opened bell just a bit. Set OAL to 1.063..before crimping I was pretty close. Played with crimp just a bit and I was so close just not perfect that I decided to try it. When I say not perfect you could drop one in go/no go and barely feel the primer but you could feel it, and a slight push it was in. Same with barrel almost perfect just not quite. Made 10 and grabbed 3 randoms and they shot and cycled fine. Made 100 more, grabbed 3 they shot and cycled fine.
Killing me as I have 100 or so that are perfect. Just not gonna kill myself trying to figure it out.
Thanks for all the help.

 

[mdi]

Just a couple thoughts; K.I.S.S. For a peg to enter a hole, it must be smaller than the hole. If the peg (cartridge) does not enter the hole (chamber) it is too big somewhere. A good chambering round (plunking) is all about bullet shape and OAL vs chamber length. I have some nice Nosler JHPs that won't chamber in one of my pistols using Nosler data (1.060"), but a JHP with a more "pointy" ogive works great at the same OAL. Along with all the above info, I'd go back to the "old school" method and color the case and bullet to find out where the cartridge hits the chamber, then that will tell me when the problem happens and I can correct it.

"Shotgun approach" troubleshooting only works some of the time and luck plays a large part. Go slow, step by step, logically and you'll arrive at a good remedy...

BTW; catch anything?

 

[LiveLife]

Thanks for the update.

With larger .356" sized bullets and tighter barrels, I have noticed newer 9mm brass with thicker case wall could pose additional reloading challenge as shorter rounder nose profile bullets like MBC could bulge around the bullet base where taper crimp die won't touch as this part can rub the chamber wall requiring the "slight push" you mentioned. Of course, force of slide cycling could overcome this readily and as long as slide cycles reliably and slide returns to full battery without bullet nose contacting the start of rifling (Use shorter resized brass lengths for your testing ), you should be OK.

If you are curious, you can measure case wall thickness .200" below case mouth and load up some rounds and see if they freely drop in the gage/chamber with a "plonk" and fall out freely using thinner case wall brass. If that's the situation, you could consider sorting brass by headstamp but to me, as long as rounds cycle reliably and go into full battery, I would keep using the thicker walled cases.

Another factor that could rub the case neck with gage/chamber wall is tilted bullet during seating. Inspect the case neck and if you see one sided bulging, exercise greater care during bullet seating to prevent tilting and you should see even bulging around the case neck.

Look forward to future range report updates.

Still have a job, 2.5 acres to mow and a boat that needs me to go Red-fish and Snook hunting one day over most weekends.

I tell you, I figured retirement would provide me with more "leisure time" for fishing but in addition to taking care of our 1.2 acres, when the yard guy quit on my parents' 5 acres, I have been busy in recent months taking care of both properties and dang, grass grows fast.

Picked up another fishing boat last week and haven't had a chance to launch it due to too many projects/house chores as I am hoping to get some King Salmon before season ends.

BTW; catch anything?

Just a few ... Beer batter fish time!

OK, back to OP before Walkalong gets hungry for fish tacos.

 

[bob4]

Loving the pics guys. Yea we caught a few Reds,Speckled trout and a few small Snook. Managed to lose probably a 32~35 inch Snook about 6 inches from the net. Heading out tomorrow again.
Next project is loading some 223 for a buddy of mine that is a gator trapper. Yup once in a while he needs to reach out for the gator. But I'll have another post with some questions in another thread.