More efficient 223 reloading?

[Tony k]

I've been thinking about ways to minimize some of the processing steps associated with reloading 223, or any other bottle neck cartridge. I'm talking about practicing/ plinking loads for an AR, not high precision bench rest ammo.

I have a Lee Classic turret press. Right now I lube, size/ deprime, trim long cases, deburr, remove primer pocket crimps, clean primer pockets, and re tumble all as separate pre processing steps. I then reload by priming, charging, and seating the bullet on the lct. Pretty standard I think.

I'm considering trying a slightly different setup using an Rcbs lube die and an Rcbs X-die fitted with a forster carbide expander. It wouldbe set up like this:

Lube die
Size die (prime at bottom of the stroke)
Charge case
Seat bullet

Yes, I would still need to remove primer pocket crimps and trim cases, but with the xdie you'd only need to do that once with each batch of brass. I,d skip primer pocket cleaning.

Anyone already loading like this? I'd think progressive press users would be looking for max efficiency, and already ahead of the curve on this.

 

[someguy2800]

My process for loading 223 on my turret press is,

-Dry tumble as is
-Spray with Hornady one shot lube while shaking in a gallon bucket
-Redding small base body die
-Lee collet neck sizing die (prime on downstroke)
-charge with a lee auto drum measure or Lyman powder dispenser
-seat bullet

I have found that by separating the body sizing and neck sizing operations it saves a great deal of effort and is not nearly as sensitive to lube. Because the lee collet sizing die only works the neck about 1/3 as much as a standard die with expander ball the necks don't really grow in length and I can go quite a few firings before having to retrim. I have brass I've fired in my savage that has been shot 10 times and did not need to be trimmed

 

[Walkalong]

Tumble fired brass.
Size/decapp.
Tumble or wipe off lube.
Trim (If needed) chamfer/deburr. (Some skip this) (I use a WFT and power so I just trim/chamfer/deburr them all)
Load. (This can be hand prime then load, or load/prime on progressive.

Some folks take tumbled brass, trim any that need it, no chamfer/deburr, load/prime them in a progressive, then tumble lube off. About as easy as it gets.

I use a progressive, and do not look to "maximize" it. I tumble the brass. Size/decapp. Tumble. Trim/chamfer/deburr. Hand prime. Load. I clean/uniform primer pockets on true accuracy loads, but generally nothing else.

 

[Tony k]

I have found that by separating the body sizing and neck sizing operations it saves a great deal of effort and is not nearly as sensitive to lube. Because the lee collet sizing die only works the neck about 1/3 as much as a standard die with expander ball the necks don't really grow in length and I can go quite a few firings before having to retrim. I have brass I've fired in my savage that has been shot 10 times and did not need to be trimmed

That sounds interesting. I just got a collet neck sizer for .270. I wonder if your setup would be reliable in an ar? I'm guessing not because it doesn't set the shoulder back.

Tumble fired brass.
Size/decapp.
Tumble or wipe off lube.
Trim (If needed) chamfer/deburr. (Some skip this) (I use a WFT and power so I just trim/chamfer/deburr them all)
Load. (This can be hand prime then load, or load/prime on progressive.

I pUT an Rcbs 3 way trimmer on my case trimmer. It works great one you get it set. I can'timagine skipping the deburr step when you trim

 

[someguy2800]

That sounds interesting. I just got a collet neck sizer for .270. I wonder if your setup would be reliable in an ar? I'm guessing not because it doesn't set the shoulder back.

Its reliable in my AR. The redding body die does set the shoulder back. It sizes everything but the neck.

 

[mstreddy]

I do as Walkalong mentioned above.
After initial tumbling, lube, size/decap on RCBS RC
measure, trim as needed, chamfer/deburr
deal with crimps, I don't always get to pick up only my brass that's been taken care of
tumble again
once I have a large enough batch
prime, load on progressive.
I don't know about efficient, but I work on a batch in this way. Just loaded 500 rounds the other day. Have another 500 that are ready to load.

 

[cfullgraf]

I load rifle about the same as Walkalong does with some minor differences.

I resize on a single stage press, trim, clean and otherwise prep cases shortly after shooting them. Smaller batches go quick. I store them away for a future loading session.

I prime off the press either with a hand or bench primer although if you are comfortable with your press mounted priming session, that could be used.

Most rifle cartridges get loaded on a single stage press. 204 Ruger, 300 BLK, and 223 Rem are loaded on a progressive primarily because when I need to load them, I need a larger quantity. With 204 Ruger and 223 Remington, I have RCBS Gold Medal seating dies that have a window in the side of the die for dropping the bullet into the die. A bit pricey but easier to set the bullet and the die aligns the bullet while you are off doing something else. Less smashed fingers as well while holding the bullet in position while raising the press.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I usually tumble, lube and resize/decap. Then trim/chamfer/debur and address the primer pockets. Those cases then get stored in a 3lb coffee can until needed. When needed all I have to do hand prime, charge and seat the bullets. I do pretty much the same for my M1 30-06 ammo.

My process is not the fastest but it works for me lol.

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

When loading brass shot in my Savage Axis, my process is actually similar to my process for reloading pistol cartridges. I tumble to clean, then in the Turret Press I 1) neck size (priming on the down stroke), 2) charge using the rifle charging die and the auto drum powder dispenser, 3) seat the bullet, and 4) FCD if I'm crimping or back out the die if I'm not.

 

[Tony k]

When loading brass shot in my Savage Axis, my process is actually similar to my process for reloading pistol cartridges. I tumble to clean, then in the Turret Press I 1) neck size (priming on the down stroke), 2) charge using the rifle charging die and the auto drum powder dispenser, 3) seat the bullet, and 4) FCD if I'm crimping or back out the die if I'm not.

Interesting. I bet I could do the same for my handirifle in 204.

 

[Rule3]

Go online, find cheapest brass cases ammo buy the the case, type in credit card, wait a few days.Open box, Go out and shoot!

 

[z7]

before I got a progressive, I did everything in batches.

clean/resize a batch. remove crimps from a large batch and try to keep the separated from once fired brass. trim ALL brass to 1.750"

when it is time to load I prime as a batch, use loading trays to powder 100-200pcs of brass at a time, then seat bullets. then crimp (if I wanted to)

I spent a lot of time with my brass where i was not loading ammo. I would get to a point where I was out brass to prep for loading, and wanted to load ammo. then it is load up the ammo in batches until I had a sufficient amount loaded OR i ran out of powder/bullets

now I have a progressive I don't do it all that differently. when I get home from the range I:
decap and wet tumble and dry
lube/resize
remove primer crimp (if needed)
trim/chamfer
store as 'ready to load'

once I go to load it is progressive with priming and powdering on the press.

I have about 2,000pcs of 223/5.56 brass I have scavenged that is "ready to load" and a decent supply of loaded ammo. I have zero pcs of 223/556 brass that needs attention.

as a general rule I don't shoot enough, or as much as many of you

 

[someguy2800]

I used to enjoy loading single stage and sitting in the basement fiddling with brass prep and weighing charges with a uniflow measure and powder trickler. Now that I have a family and little time to load or shoot I just want to make quality ammo efficiently. A progressive press doesn't make sense for me because I load alot of different calibers and usually in qty's of 50 or so at a time. I change calibers in my Lee turret in about 30 seconds by swapping out turrets. I use a lyman powder dispensor for most cartridges because it takes no adjustment to change charge weight and is easy to clean out. I use a lee auto drum for 9mm, 38 special, and sometimes 223 because you can swap out preset drums without fiddling. I prime on the press because the lee turret has a very nice priming system that only requires a push of your finger and is much much more efficient than hand priming in a separate step.

My goal for loading any cartridge is to only do brass prep once (never for pistol cartridges) and when I put a piece of tumbled brass in the press I don't want to touch it again until its a loaded round. Thats the biggest time saver of a lee turret press, you don't spend all day taking brass in and out of the shell holder like you have to do with a single stage. My reloading procedure is designed around handling the brass as few times as possible and also to reduce the amount of brass prep between loadings as much as possible. For pretty much everything I load I have reduces it to just two stages after the brass is prepped. Dry tumble is one step, and loading on turret press is the second step since all loading operations are done in one go without taking the brass out of the press. Also I dry tumble specifically because I do not have to decap the brass first or dry out the cases when done.

 

[Toprudder]

I've been doing pretty much what @Walkalong does. I generally will do everything in batch mode, but I have run a few hundred rounds of plinking ammo before with my LCT in auto-index mode.

I have found that by separating the body sizing and neck sizing operations it saves a great deal of effort and is not nearly as sensitive to lube. Because the lee collet sizing die only works the neck about 1/3 as much as a standard die with expander ball the necks don't really grow in length and I can go quite a few firings before having to retrim. I have brass I've fired in my savage that has been shot 10 times and did not need to be trimmed

I have just acquired the same body and collect neck sizing dies, for the same reasons you mention (Have not used them yet). I have also been using the Redding competition shellholders, specifically the +0.006 shellholder, as I have determined that this will reduce the amount of growth each time fired.

 

[Tony k]

My goal for loading any cartridge is to only do brass prep once (never for pistol cartridges) and when I put a piece of tumbled brass in the press I don't want to touch it again until its a loaded round. Thats the biggest time saver of a lee turret press, you don't spend all day taking brass in and out of the shell holder like you have to do with a single stage. My reloading procedure is designed around handling the brass as few times as possible

This is the essence of what I'm after. Get 223 reloading as close to straight wall pistol cartridges as possible. I think I can do it by decapping with the lube die, then sizing with the x-die.

 

[SC_Dave]

I reload 223 for practice and training so I don't need bolt gun precision. I do need it to cycle. But, I'm like the OP and would like to streamline the process too so I'm reading with interest. I never expected 223 to be like 9mm reloading but it seems like a lot of drudgery, and I LIKE reloading..........
David

 

[someguy2800]

This is the essence of what I'm after. Get 223 reloading as close to straight wall pistol cartridges as possible. I think I can do it by decapping with the lube die, then sizing with the x-die.

Let us know how it works out. What lube are you planning on using in the lube die? I like hornady one shot because almost all of it evaporates away in a day or two so I don't bother wiping it off. I'm curious if you can find a lube that works in the lube die that doesn't need to be wiped off the cases.

 

[Sunray]

"...need to remove primer pocket crimps..." Not on commercial cases. You'd still need to check case lengths though. Easy enough if you set your verniers to the max case length and use it as a gauge. Trimming(chamfering and deburring) is not required every time either.
"...seems like a lot of drudgery..." Isn't if you get all your cases to the point they need only powder and bullet. Same as you should with 9mm.

 

[Tony k]

What lube are you planning on using in the lube die? I like hornady one shot because almost all of it evaporates away in a day or two so I don't bother wiping it off. I'm curious if you can find a lube that works in the lube die that doesn't need to be wiped off the cases.

Dealing with the lube is where I'm stuck (pun intended). I think the lube die is designed to use Rcbs lube. Maybe I could just wipe them with a damp cloth, or give them a quick tumble.

You'd still need to check case lengths though. Easy enough if you set your verniers to the max case length and use it as a gauge.

I currently use my Calipers as you describe. The x-die is supposed to control case length growth once you trim it per the below instructions.

 

[someguy2800]

I use the RCBS lube on a lube pad on tough to size bottleneck cases. It leaves a pretty heavy film and doesn't dry up. I wipe it off with a dry paper towel as each round is done. Its fine for 50 rounds of 30-06 but I wouldn't want to do it for 500 rounds of 223 unless you can automate removing it from a loaded round. I wonder if you could use something like lanolin and alcohol.

 

[Tony k]

I use the RCBS lube on a lube pad on tough to size bottleneck cases. It leaves a pretty heavy film and doesn't dry up. I wipe it off with a dry paper towel as each round is done. Its fine for 50 rounds of 30-06 but I wouldn't want to do it for 500 rounds of 223 unless you can automate removing it from a loaded round. I wonder if you could use something like lanolin and alcohol.

Yeah... Ill probably have to do some experimenting. With a lanolin alcohol mix, wouldn't you end up with the alcohol evaporated, leaving lanolin behind?

I've considered thinning a wax with alcohol. Still have to get the wax off.

I dunno!

 

[someguy2800]

I've never tried lanolin since I like Hornady one shot alot. I have read of people on here using lanolin and alcohol as a spray lube and just leaving it on the cases as I do with the one shot. I don't know if lanolin by itself dries up at all with time. One thing I do know about using a thin alcohol suspended lube like that, its essential to lube the entire body of the case. I used to use one shot by spraying cases standing up in loading blocks and stuck two cases in dies because part of the body was not being lubed. Once I switched to spraying them while shaking in a pail that problem went away.

 

[Tony k]

This guy seems to have had good luck doing exactly what I had in mind.

Just a follow-up for anyone interested. The RCBS Lube Die worked great. I've setup the press for Lube, Size, Primer, Powder, Powder Check, and Bullet Seating all in one full press stroke with no sticky fingers from handling lubed cases. After the loading session I wiped each round with a damp cloth to remove the residual lube and boxed them up.

I'm hopefully the X-Die works as advertised and eliminates the need to trim this lot of brass in the future. If so, I cannot think of a faster and cleaner way to reload bottleneck cartridges than using the Lube die and X-Die combination

https://www.okshooters.com/threads/rcbs-lube-die.97098/

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I use the RCBS pad and lube After i have loaded a few hundred rounds I tumble the loaded rounds in corn cob pet bedding to get the leftover lube off

 

[RussellC]

Its reliable in my AR. The redding body die does set the shoulder back. It sizes everything but the neck.

I use the Redding body die also, along with the Competition shell holder set. Each one is 2 one thousanths difference tham the next, making shoulder bump easily adjustable.

Neck done with Redding Competition bushing die with micrometer.

Russellc