More Thunder Ranch Questions (Defensive Handgun I)

[Therapydude]

Hello to all! I haven't posted anything here in quite some time. I recently booked a November trip to Thunder Ranch for their 3 day Defensive Handgun I class. I would appreciate any insight from individuals who have taken this course. With regard to the equipment list, I read that I won't need a flashlight (since it's the 3 day course), but do I really need knee and elbow pads? I assume the pads are for going into a prone position? What types of targets/distances will I be shooting? Any indoor/house shooting with this class? I'll be taking a Glock 19 as my primary hangun with a S&W 3953TSW as a back-up in case of any type of unforseen malfunction. Ammo will be Winchester 115 grain FMJ (since they require a certain percentage of ball ammo, I figured I would just use all ball ammo). Any advice/tips for this course would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[El Tejon]

Hi, therapy. Hit Mamacita's for me and don't forget to hit Bandera for cool jewelry for SWMBO. Where are you staying?

1. Knee/elbow pads: Knee, yes; elbow, no. Knee pads for when working around the barricades. Nasty little sharp black range gravel. Also helps at brass call.

2. Flashlight: even if "unneeded" for class, good habit, IMHO, to get used to wearing one. If you carry a gun, you should carry a light. I would bring it.

3. You will make a few runs through the Terminator. Be cool, just breathe, and look at front sight. Listen to the instructors.

4. You will be shooting at carboard humanoids.

5. Tips: have your gear tight (everything together) in one bag, don't throw empty boxes on Clint's deck (I carry extra ammo in a surplus gas mask bag), drink water, not soda, not Gatorade, water, pre-hydrate, eat light, sleep at night, stretch out, do some shoulder and forearms exercises before you go, get some dry practice in, shut the bathroom doors, be extra polite to the TR staff, arrive early and be ready, don't dawdle (have to put in more to get out more), load mags between drills (put loose rounds in your front pocket), listen up, obey the 4 Rules, look after your partner, I would bring two of the same weapon and more mags, for a class gift Clint likes stuff on bison or the USMC.

 

[Therapydude]

Thanks for the tips! To answer your question, I'll be staying at a motel in Kerville. As for my holster setup, I just purchased a concealed belt holster, concealable contour belt, and (1) concealable mag case (all Galco). Aside from the mag in the gun and one extra mag in the belt case, I'm thinking of wearing Khaki cargo pants and using the side pockets to hold extra mags. Possibly replacing belt case with a fresh mag as time allows (maybe keep extra loaded mags in left leg pocket and place emptys in right leg pocket to avoid confusion). Maybe I'll just break down and buy one or two extra belt mag cases I ordered a Dillon range bag to keep everything organized. Do we get to keep our brass? Or does it become the property of Thunder Ranch? As for getting in shape, I already work out about 4-5 days a week (weights/cardio), but plan on doing some extra range work prior to the class. Hopefully, with the class in November, dehydration won't be quite as bad. I might pick up a camelback though, just to be safe. Thanks for the helpful insight!

 

[El Tejon]

Hotel in Kerrville. O.K., which one?

If you want to take your brass home, O.K., it just becomes your problem. Be careful. Always see brass hounds at DHG1. Grown men rolling around with each other over spent brass.

I use what I use "on da str337z", double mag pouch, but at skul I put extra rounds in my right pocket and 2 mags in my belt pouch and 2 mags in my left pocket. Have seen lots of other "systems." Experiment with different set-ups before you go. You'll do great!

Good to run. Running is the best martial skill to have. I'm talking about your gun muscles--shoulders, triceps, forearms and hand strength. Holding the gun up for extended period of time during dry practice is a good idear.

Clint likes to tell guys that they will talk to more people than they will shoot, i.e. the gun may be out but not making noise. He uses the example of a TR instructor from Kansas City who held a suspect a gun point for 45 minutes. You won't hold quite that long.

Don't use a mallninjaback myself; I think I'm suppressing the inner Mall Ninja within. Drink plenty of water before you go down. Drink it on the drive from Kerrville. Drink water before class. Drink water at break, at lunch, at dinner.

Drink water, even if there's frost on the pumpkin (or cactus or armadillo depending on environment); it's a matter of self-defense: One time, at gun camp, there was a classmate of El Tejon holding on at length about how HE didn't need to drink water and HE thought it was a waste of time running to refill HIS water bottle and running to the bathroom. HE knew soooo much more than the instructors. Weeeelllllll, HE got a nice long ride in the ambulance. I do not know if they let HIM hit the siren, but I imagine they allowed HIM to pay the bill and HE got to miss class.

 

[GB]

I attended a 3-day DHG I class at TR in early Decamber last year. While it was never hot it did get warm and I was occasionally glad I had water on the range. Weather in that part of Texas can vary wildly both within a day and from year to year. I've seen it 80 degrees one mid November and freezing the next.

Knee pads - Yes. They were more helpfull during brass call but were useful during drills shooting from prone position or rising from the ground. I don't remember us shooting from a kneeling position but I guess it's something that could happen.

Elbow Pads - I took some but did not need them. We never did any drills where our elbows made much contact with the ground. This might be different for you or your class so it would not hurt to take them if you own some. [When I was there, they could be purchased in the store.]

Shooting distance - Mostly 10 to 15 feet. Up to maybe 20 feet during some movement drills.

Brass - Because of movement drills my brass was often scattered across an area 20 x 5 feet and it was mixed with that of two or three people to either side of me. Selecting your brass, particulary if you have people using the same caliber rounds on either side, will be difficult. Also, by brass call, at the end of the day, most people are tired enough they just want to get done. There is little time to pick brass between drills. You are generally way too busy loading mags or drinking water.

Spare mags - I had 6 10-round mags at that class. It was not unusual for me to go through most of them during a series of drills. You can carry extra rounds and fill mags while you are standing at the line between drills [not to be confused with a real break] but I found this to occasionally conflict with hearing the instructor. Not a good thing.

A final series of comments on the drive to and from TR. They really are not kidding about watching out for the deer. Once you get off the Interstate and on the Farm-to-Market roads, much of the right-of-way is lined by 10 foot high deer fences. This does not keep the deer from getting on the road sides it just makes it more difficult for them to get off. The morning drive from Kerrville is made at dawn which is prime time for deer movement. This plus the fact it will be deer season means the deer may be quite active. I would routinely see 3 to 5 new road kills on my morning drive. Drive with care.

It is a great course. Have fun. Be safe.

GB

 

[Double Naught Spy]

GB, 5-15 feet or 5-15 yards? I can't remember doing much shooting at 5 feet (actually less, reach distance of your arm) except when doing retreat drills for DH1.

Depending on things like trigger face roughness (such a serrations) and some sort of roughness (such a grip tape, checkering, etc.) on the front and rear straps, you might want to take along some white medical type. If those areas are rough, then use the tape to cover your skin where it contacts those rough areas. Also, go ahead and have it on the first day before you start. Once you get a blister on your bare hand, further shooting and basic gun handling will pop it, tear it off, and cause you unnecessary pain. The newly exposed skin will be overly sensitive and that is really what will case you pain.

Taping up after a blister has formed seems like a good idea to cover the exposed new skin, but it can be problematic as the tape will really tug at the regular and new skin and can be quite painful to remove.

During my 5 day DH1, many folks had taped hands after day one. Many more had after day two. Of course by that time their hands hurt.

Mags. You probably can't have too many. Many folks will bring between 5 and 10 and 10 really is the better way to go. I used multiple mag pouches and pockets for carrying all 10 to the line.

I didn't follow El Tejon's statement about not throwing your empty boxes on Clint's deck. In the three times I have been to TR, neither Clint or any of the instructors ever said we could not do it. The importance thing is that you pick up your trash before leaving the range at the end of the day.

I didn't follow the comment about not drinking Gatorade.

One thing El Tejon nailed was the exercises for arms and shoulders. For some reason, the instructors will get to a point early on where they will explain the next drill. They then have you draw and come to ready position and then reexplain the instrucers 1-3 more times. If they catch you sagging, they will tell you to bring the gun back up and then launch into some story where a person had to hold a bad guy at gunpoint for 45 minutes. So, they apparently think we need to have a much greater ability to hold the gun out at ready position from a lot longer capability than we had when we started the class.

Use this lead time to start prepping your arms and shoulders for TR. Every day, do a few sets of trying to hold your arms out at ready position with either a pistol or heavier weight. For each set, hold the gun out until muscle failure. Rest and repeat.

Part of why such exercises are important isn't just that it will help you to hold your arms out for the drills. A parallel benefit is that you will be less likely to give the muscle shakes from holding out the gun for so long. Once those start, you end up with a pronounced amount of sight picture wobble that will negatively impact your shooting ability.

Email me if you want to see the log I kept for 5 day DH1 to get more of an idea about the types of things you will be doing.
An evening of drinking the night before a class day is not a good idea.

 

[UnknownSailor]

As far as distances go, on some drills you will start off at about 3 feet. Stand in front of your target, and dress off by just touching it with your off hand. When it moves (and it will, side to side), retreat backwards to cover, shooting the whole way, and don't stop shooting until the target stops moving.

I never used knee pads at TR, but then I have larger knees than most.

Oh, and holes in barricades are $5 per hole. Don't ask how I know this....

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Well, they keep saying it is $5 per hole, but that just seemed to more of a threat than anything else. If not, I probably have an upaid tab.

Depending on the drills, you may not be on your knees so much that you really need knee pads. However, I found it a lot easier during brass cleanup to have the knee pads on. Being down on my knees to pick up brass beat the heck out of bending over from the waist, especially after a long day.

If you get knee pads, don't but the SWAT super tactical ninja kneepads. You probably won't use the much after class anyway. I simply picked up a set of cheapo rollerblade pads for something like $12-15. They are somewhat padded, but have a hard plastic shell. They aren't super cool, but they have lasted through three classes.

Oops, that would be 10-15 and not 5-15 in the above post of mine. RIF (reading is fundamental).