Kendal Black
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Doubtless so, but there is a difference in the rate of sustained accurate shots one after another. The gun with a stock on it wins there.
Mossberg 12g shockwave
- Thread starter beeenbag
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Doubtless so, but there is a difference in the rate of sustained accurate shots one after another. The gun with a stock on it wins there.
Jeb Stuart
member
As far as my 20ga shotgun with the Pistol grip 18" goes, shooting looking down the barrel is a piece of cake. In fact that is the way I mostly train with it. Basically a large Pistol. What is nice about the 20ga is you can virtually shoot it all day long. Recoil is no problem nor control. I can use a sling and have one hand free for carry. The Flash light is attached to the fore end vertical grip which is easily activated on and on with the switch right on that grip. The Fore-end Vertical grip was a God send for myself. Really gave me much more control both in Maneuverability and shooting. I also like the FLEX, because I can switch to a "TACTICAL" grip if I choose. I also bought a barrel and rear stock for hunting which is nice.
The Shockwave would probably be the best choice if you just wanted a Pistol grip. The shorter length would be nice especially in the Home. I personally would want the Fore end grip, and I would guess that would be a easy upgrade for the Shockwave.
The Shockwave would probably be the best choice if you just wanted a Pistol grip. The shorter length would be nice especially in the Home. I personally would want the Fore end grip, and I would guess that would be a easy upgrade for the Shockwave.
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FAS1
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I have had several requests from customers who would like me to make a quick access safe for these. Something I am considering since they seem to be very popular right now.
DT Guy
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I have to believe those would sell; the biggest advantage I see of a Shockwave (and I don't own one) is the possibility of keeping a 'shotgun' secure, yet accessible. Long guns are difficult to do that with-a large, handgun-style safe for a Shockwave would make it much easier.
Larry
wally
Member
No can do without prior NFA registration for it.
Not if you have reactive targets, a safe place to shoot them, and a bunch of cheap #6 "promotional" shells.
Our club has a plate rack in a dedicated "home defense" shotgun only bay. Its a lot of fun and a box of shells last practically no time, I'll be adding a red dot to mine as soon as the rail arrives. At my friends ranch, its a hoot to fire from the hip and make 2-liter plastic bottle "dance".
It ain't that big a deal even if you do "punch yourself in the face" unless you have a total "glass jaw". Its the recoil from a 12-ga shotgun not a punch from Mike Tyson, man up! I did it my first time out toward the end of the session when I was aiming at a steel plate at 50 yards -- spent too much effort finding the right sight picture without enough concern for how close my hand hand gotten to my face and boom! , oh crap! Big reason why I've ordered the rail to add a red dot
RecoilRob
Member
It's handy to have a short shotgun around...sometimes, but I went for an 18" 500 with dual PG's and over-folding stock to get to 26" yet still be able to shoulder it while shooting. I'm liking that people are working around the inane BATF rules, but so far what has been offered are mere novelties (IMHO) and don't seem to offer anything that can't be gotten with a more conventional option.
It is man toy just like most guns are. I prefer 18.5" barrel with six-shot tube and top or side-folding stock (the AR-15 length adjustable stocks are not useful in terms of compactness). Folded for transport or storage and unfolded for shooting. Load of choice for 12ga is #1BK at about 1250fps at the muzzle.
I stuck a red dot on mine for a bit, and found it cumbersome to use. since the weapon doesn't track as easily as a handgun or a shouldered long gun, it's hard to keep the dot tracking cleaning. However, I did find the naked rail to make it MUCH easier to get lined up for a shot than the front post only sight that came with the weapon.
YMMV obviously.
YMMV obviously.
I'm also very interested in the shockwave. I've been a fan of shorter shotguns ever since I was 14 and watched Romancing the Stone. Over the years I've thought about buying a Serbu Super Shorty and setting it up like the old Witness Protection 870's. Mossberg and Remington just made that process much easier and way less expensive
Couple questions for you:
What kind of ammo are you using, and how does it pattern? Have you tried any Federal Flite Control or other buckshot that is supposed to pattern better out of a cylinder bore?
How compact is it? I've never had the chance to handle one. Whenever I see a picture of it, or a video of someone shooting one, it always seems like it's super compact, but then I take a tape measure out, mark out 26" on another shotgun, or take the butt stock off my ak (which comes in right around 27" in that configuration) and it seems so much bigger than I was hoping for. I know I need to find one to handle, but, in the meantime, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
What kind of reloading technique have you found to be most efficient for it? The lack of a stock makes me think that it isn't a good candidate for twin loading, and won't be as easy to load from a side sadle as a stocked gun, but the weak hand load four method looks li,e it could be promising.
Couple questions for you:
What kind of ammo are you using, and how does it pattern? Have you tried any Federal Flite Control or other buckshot that is supposed to pattern better out of a cylinder bore?
How compact is it? I've never had the chance to handle one. Whenever I see a picture of it, or a video of someone shooting one, it always seems like it's super compact, but then I take a tape measure out, mark out 26" on another shotgun, or take the butt stock off my ak (which comes in right around 27" in that configuration) and it seems so much bigger than I was hoping for. I know I need to find one to handle, but, in the meantime, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
What kind of reloading technique have you found to be most efficient for it? The lack of a stock makes me think that it isn't a good candidate for twin loading, and won't be as easy to load from a side sadle as a stocked gun, but the weak hand load four method looks li,e it could be promising.
Mn Fats, I don't think that there is as broad of a practical application for the shockwave as a regular, stocked shotgun, but I think it makes sense for some things. Gabe Suarez did a few videos on it, and referred to it the modern battle axe, which I think is a good description. I see it as filling the void where you want something with the advantages of a shotgun (multiple rounds on target, or ability to use slugs) but something more compact. Something that might work if you wanted to use it in a vehicle, or stow it in a kayak (it would be way easier to fit that in one of my hatches than my current 870) or perhaps as a general purpose firearm around the property (definitely intertested in its possibilities for bear or meth head defense while fishing. I imagine it would be easier to both pack, and keep dry than my guide gun, and wouldn't be as hard to get to in waders as a glock.)
However realistic any of those ideas are, I don't know. Sure, a glock or lever gun or regular shotgun would probably work pretty well too, but I wouldn't mind having a shockwave next time I'm out in the boonies.
Just curious, you wouldn't happen to be a pool or billiards player would you?
Theohazard
Member
No, vertical foregrips are completely fine on a pistol-grip-only shotgun. VFGs are only a problem on pistols with an overall length less than 26" because they turn that pistol into an AOW.
On a PGO shotgun with an overall length over 26" you can add a VFG no problem, and if you have a PGO shotgun with an overall length less than 26" you have a AOW, whether or not it has a VFG on it.
wally
Member
The Shockwave is not a pistol grip shotgun, it ss a "firearm", basically a legal "loophole" gun, adding a pistol grip, stock, or vertical grip makes it a short barrel shotgun or AOW either of which require the NFA tax.
Theohazard
Member
Actually, a Shockwave is in the same ATF category as a pistol-grip-only shotgun and therefore it has the exact same legal limitations. Neither are legally shotguns since they weren't manufactured or transferred with a stock attached. And the federal definition of "shotgun" requires a stock:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...n-firearms-gun-control-act-definition-shotgun
Neither a PGO shotgun or a Shockwave have a barrel length limit since they're both not legally shotguns, they're non-NFA "firearms". The only limitation is they can't have an overall length lower than 26". They're both transferred as "other firearms" on question 16 of the 4473, the only difference between the two on the 4473 is that for question 27 you write "firearm with a pistol grip" for a PGO shotgun and just "firearm" for the Shockwave since the ATF doesn't consider a birds-head grip to be a pistol grip.
Yes, you can add a stock to a PGO shotgun that has an 18" barrel and make it legally a shotgun, but you could do the same thing to the Shockwave if you added an 18" barrel to it first. The only difference here is that a PGO shotgun usually comes from the factory with an 18" barrel already, whereas the Shockwave has a 14" barrel so you'd have to switch out the barrel before adding the stock.
Most of this is incorrect. Switching out the birds-head grip with a pistol grip makes it an AOW only because the firearm would now be below a 26" overall length. It has nothing to do with the pistol grip itself. The only reason the Shockwave comes with a bird's-head grip instead of a regular pistol grip is because a regular pistol grip won't get it over the 26" overall length limit.
Yes, adding a stock makes it a short-barrel shotgun if you leave the 14” barrel in place. But no, adding a vertical foregrip doesn't change its classification at all. Like I said before, the only time the ATF has deemed that a vertical foregrip changes the classification of a firearm is when you add it to a pistol. If you're adding a VFG to a pistol with an overall length less than 26" it becomes an NFA AOW. If you're adding a VFG to a pistol with an overall length greater than 26" it becomes a non-NFA "firearm" similar to the Shockwave.
https://johnpierceesq.com/can-you-add-a-vertical-fore-grip-to-an-ar-pistol/
Here are the only limitations to the Shockwave: You can't add a stock to it without first installing an 18" barrel, and you can't make it shorter than 26". Show me where the ATF says that adding a vertical foregrip to a non-NFA "firearm" makes it an AOW. You're not going to find it, and that's because the reason a VFG changes the classification of a pistol is because the federal definition of a pistol involves a firearm that's designed to be fired with one hand.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...on-firearms-gun-control-act-definition-pistol
The ATF has determined that a VFG changes a pistol's classification because it redesigns it to be fired with two hands:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/o...FjAAegQIDBAB&usg=AOvVaw1pWneRexYb6T7KC_VKk7bt
But since no other type of firearm is legally designed to be fired with one hand, a VFG doesn't change the classification of any firearm except a pistol. So it's fine to put one on a Shockwave.
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Mn Fats
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I'm taking a break from tournaments, but yes, ever since I could reach the table.
wally
Member
If your legal-foo is so good, do these things and post lots of pictures and video shooting them. Plow the road for the rest of us. On top of this you've got the individual State laws to contend with.
When I got mine, Texas had just changed their law (effective Sept 1 2017) to make the Shockwave legal which at the time supposedly left only Ohio where it wasn't legal, although I wouldn't be surprised if states like VA, MA, NY, NJ etc. have done the opposite of Texas and changed their laws to make it illegal.
Arizona_Mike
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Theohazard is correct. The road is well plowed and paved already. A VFG is even factory standard on the Franklin Armory XO-26b and the rational of firearms over 26" not being easily concealable and thus not AOWs is clearly explained in their determination letter.
Mike
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Theohazard
Member
I’m not going to buy a firearm, accessorize it, and make a YouTube channel just to demonstrate something that’s already well-established as being perfectly legal. I pointed out that you were incorrect, I explained exactly why you were incorrect in detail, and I even added citations to federal law and to ATF decisions. That should be enough.
Agreed, which is why my post was only concerning federal laws.
dogtown tom
Member
Theohazards "legal-foo" is spot on, yours is not.
The Shockwave was never illegal in Texas, since the Penal Code does not define the term "shotgun". Texas pretty much copies Federal law on firearms, but our nincompoops in Austin sometimes fail to do a complete copy and paste..........and that's why the panic over the Shockwave. Rather than clean up existing state law, our legislators chose to make a new law specific to Shockwave type firearms.
montess85
Member
Shockwave is 100% legal in NY. Bought 2 of them. I have a 12 and a 20.
justice06rr
Member
Read below:
I think the folks that pass their judgment on this gun based on their experience, or others experience, with standard PGO shotguns are doing themselves and those that read their opinions an injustice. I personally never cared for PGO shotguns at all, but something about the raptor grip and this configuration makes it totally different. I can shoot it just as accurately as my 18.5" 870 with a shoulder stock when keeping it under 20 yards or so. And it's sooo much fun to shoot, especially with 00 buck. I could rack off several fast shots, hitting 6" steel spinners, and the size makes it very handy. Like I said in my OP, I want to do some more training with it, but I'm definitely not ruling it out as a close range defense gun, HD mainly.
Yes, general purpose or woods carry, I'd want a full size, no doubt.
My advice to anyone that hasn't shot one and is the least bit interested, go shoot one. It's totally different in my opinion. To those that haven't and want to keep throwing it in the standard PGO shotgun category, hush up.
Accuracy is the topic, not rate of fire. If you shoot the same results with the shockwave as with a stocked shotgun on a single shot, then it does what it needs to.
If I wanted to shoot faster, I'd use a semiauto. For that reason I have a Saiga12 gauge. But the S12 is insanely heavy and bulky, unlike the Shockwave.
george burns
Member
It's to iffy, to shoot an animal with a shotgun that doesn't look to have enough power to drop the animal fast enough to not cause pain. Causing suffering is just not for me, Maybe with a Home invader but not a deer. 1 shot has to do the trick.
George P
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It would have the same "power" as any other shotgun, assuming you use the same ammo.
george burns
Member
I don't use a shotgun for anything further than 50-100 yards, I don't use slugs so for me a deer rifle in any caliber from 30-30 up would work fine, a 30-06 is perfect
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