"Most" States "outlaw" .223 for hunting?

[TRX]

makes me wonder if they actually read and comprehend any of the other laws for their respective areas.

Many of us learned that sort of thing by word-of-mouth before there was an internet or any reasonable way to look things up for ourselves. After that it just became part of the background of "stuff we know." A lot of which is hopelessly wrong, but until you have cause to question it, that's what you have to work with.

Having had cause to contact the Game & Fish people and the police about various matters, I quickly learned that chances are whoever is answering your question has no idea either, and they've picked whatever answer is likely to make you go away quickly and quit bothering them. But short of taking a day off work, driving to the Capitol, and somehow finding a law library that let the unwashed schmucks of the general public in (and knowing what to do with such a library...) that was the best we could do.


"The truth is out there, but the lies are inside your head." - Terry Pratchett

 

[Elkins45]

For a good place to start, the last update on this was Jan 2014. (Not my list, just something easily found online, here. Feel to update, please.


Alabama- centerfire rifle or pistol using mushrooming ammo
Alaska- http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.firearms
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- http://www.agfc.com/hunting/pages/huntingregulationsdeer.aspx#Legal Hunting Equipment
California- centerfire rifles, centerfire handguns with min. 4" barrel
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn or larger bullet/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- O.C.G.A. 27-3-4(5) .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol only
Indiana- http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/deer-regulations/
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state.
Kansas- http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations/Deer/Legal-Equipment
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .220 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun or muzzleloader
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- .23 centerfire and up

Kentucky- any centerfire rifle, pistol or shotgun (slug only)

 

[ants]

For a good place to start, the last update on this was Jan 2014. (Not my list, just something easily found online, here. Feel to update, please.
,,,
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
...

No, Nevada is 22 centerfire and up if it retains 1000 ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards.


This has been the regulation in Nevada for many years.
I wonder if other states on the list require correction.

 

[RPZ]

Easiest way to find out is going to your state's fish and game website.

 

[.308 Norma]

Easiest way to find out is going to your state's fish and game website.

Another easy way to find out that existed even before the internet (in Idaho at least) is to just pick up a copy of the hunting regulations where you buy your license and/or tags. They're free, and right there on the counter.

 

[Hunter 08]

I grab the reg book every year and usually grab several copies. Leave one in the gun case and one in the bathroom magazine rack, they are great toilet read. One thing that kind of surprises me is .223 for deer ammo seems to only go as high as 64gr, yet heaviest ammo is 77gr. Ammo manufacturers know more than I do, but I wonder why they won't load a deer load in 77gr. Might as well give the .223 the most that you can and make it count. I'm also a bit surprised that only Hornady seems to offer a few loads in lead free, would have thought there would be more at this point in time. I mean it's only a matter of time before there's an out right ban on leaded ammo for hunting deer and small game, already is in MN for waterfowl, which ticked off a good number of people as we felt like this was back door gun control (kind of is but I do see the logic behind the ban).

 

[MCgunner]

It pays to be a handloader. Very heavy lead bullets might not stabilize in most ARs, don't know. Mine has a 1:8 twist and seems to really like the all copper Barnes TSX 62 grain, which is longer than a 62 grain lead bullet.

I don't think lead is anywhere near on the way out for bullets. If they demanded lead free, I'd just have to break the law or not use my muzzle loaders. On the fast twist ones, I suppose a sabot would work with a pistol bullet. I do prefer a heavy minie ball, though.

The steel shot law for waterfowl went nation wide in around 1980. It's a stupid law. I'd bet they lose more birds to cripples than they ever lost to lead poisoning. And, I must use steel on geese and ducks over the same field I hunted doves with lead 7.5s earlier in the season. STUPID.

But, you got me started.....sorry.....

 

[.308 Norma]

I mean it's only a matter of time before there's an out right ban on leaded ammo for hunting deer and small game,

I seriously doubt it. It won't happen in my lifetime anyway - I'd bet on that. Yeah, yeah, I know - or at least I've read and heard it may have already happened in California. But other states don't always stand in line to follow California.
If lead bullets, and lead core bullets are ever banned for hunting "deer and small game" everywhere in the US, and this message board and I are still around, I'll be back here to admit I was wrong. Don't hold your breath.

already is in MN for waterfowl

That lead shot ban for hunting migratory waterfowl is a federal thing, not a Minnesota thing.

 

[MCgunner]

I seriously doubt it. It won't happen in my lifetime anyway - I'd bet on that. Yeah, yeah, I know - or at least I've read and heard it may have already happened in California. But other states don't always stand in line to follow California.
If lead bullets, and lead core bullets are ever banned for hunting "deer and small game" everywhere in the US, and this message board and I are still around, I'll be back here to admit I was wrong. Don't hold your breath.

That lead shot ban for hunting migratory waterfowl is a federal thing, not a Minnesota thing.

Yep, the interior department violated the 10th amendment........AGAIN.......as if anyone even knows the tenth exists anymore.

There's no need for a lead bullet ban outside of Kali, anyway. We don't have any of them stinkin' overgrown buzzards in Texas to protect. And, it weren't lead that killed the things off, anyway, was DDT.

 

[Sniper66]

Too many people thrive on feeling victimized. Just watch news any day of the week. In Kansas the .223 used to be banned as a deer hunting caliber, but now it's OK. Not sure when it changedd, but it's been a few years. Now the law says any centerfire is permitted, but I would not use my 22 Hornet for deer. But, I'm confident that a head shot with my 22 Hornet would do the trick.

 

[LoonWulf]

Another easy way to find out that existed even before the internet (in Idaho at least) is to just pick up a copy of the hunting regulations where you buy your license and/or tags. They're free, and right there on the counter.

Im pretty sure the mainland f&g are better at updating their written rules and regs than the guys here, but id STILL check with the office from time to time. I know they sometimes make changes to areas, seasons, limits etc on the fly here. They only update the published rules, never. All updates are listed on the website, but if you dont check its still on you.

 

[.308 Norma]

Im pretty sure the mainland f&g are better at updating their written rules and regs than the guys here, but id STILL check with the office from time to time. I know they sometimes make changes to areas, seasons, limits etc on the fly here. They only update the published rules, never. All updates are listed on the website, but if you dont check its still on you.

Yeah, that's true. When I think about it, I guess the internet (even as much as I cuss and make fun of it sometimes) makes things more convenient when it comes to finding out about the latest updates to f&g regulations. And updates to the published regulations do happen occasionally, even here in Idaho.

 

[FL-NC]

Laws change. I remember when anything smaller than .24 was illegal in Tn. Look at how many states suppressors are legal to use hunting- 10 years ago, most people probably thought they were as illegal as a nuke. And crossbows- many places you could only use them during rifle season, or if you had a doctor's note stating your physical condition would prevent you from using a regular bow. Of course, more than a few people were getting notes for this from dentists, vets, etc., since the laws only said from a "doctor", and people were not required to disclose their specific injury or ailment.

 

[Hunter 08]

It bugs me that a local bow hunters accosication is so bent on making bow hunting more restrictive to people. Either have to be 60 or disabled, and they don't want to allow younger people to use them. Ethical kill is am ethical kill. Least amount of suffering the animal has to go through the better.

 

[Jason_W]

It bugs me that a local bow hunters accosication is so bent on making bow hunting more restrictive to people. Either have to be 60 or disabled, and they don't want to allow younger people to use them. Ethical kill is am ethical kill. Least amount of suffering the animal has to go through the better.

In Vermont, you can't even use a crossbow during the general firearms season or during the muzzleloader season. A scoped muzzleloader sending a modern projectile out of the barrel at 2000+ f/s is fine, but no crossbows.

Bow hunting is to hunting what fly fishing is to fishing. There are cool, laid back, people who like to bow hunt or fly fish, and then there are the elitists who think that anyone who wants to hunt with a crossbow or fish with a night crawler is a filthy, uncouth, peasant. Wing shooters can get that way too sometimes.

 

[FL-NC]

In Vermont, you can't even use a crossbow during the general firearms season or during the muzzleloader season. A scoped muzzleloader sending a modern projectile out of the barrel at 2000+ f/s is fine, but no crossbows.

Bow hunting is to hunting what fly fishing is to fishing. There are cool, laid back, people who like to bow hunt or fly fish, and then there are the elitists who think that anyone who wants to hunt with a crossbow or fish with a night crawler is a filthy, uncouth, peasant. Wing shooters can get that way too sometimes.

Its pretty sad that those of us involved in hunting/shooting sports/other outdoor activities can't even get along sometimes. As a 3 gunner and long range enthusiast, I have no interest in biathlon or cowboy action shooting. As a deer/hog/turkey/fox/coyote hunter, I have no interest in killing a cougar (because I think they are cool). But at the end of the day, we are all sharing the outdoors and the second amendment.

 

[22250Rem]

Hmm... Didn't know that. Knew about the 600fps thing, but didn't know they looked them up. Thanks.

I didn't know that either; Thanks again..... I was squirrel hunting last season for the first time with an air rifle, ( Benjamin Trail .22 cal.) because I saw that air rifles were legal for small game in NY state. Didn't see anything about muzzle velocity, just that I could use an air rifle. I've always used a 22LR squirrel hunting but as a newbie to air guns I figured I'd give it a try, just for a challenge, and even managed to get one at about 30 yards. Luckily I've also chronographed 3 different pellets and they are running 736, 816, and 832 FPS so I guess I'm legal. As to the original topic, I know folks who've taken NY state deer with a 223 and they say it works well, they were also using a heavier bullet and proper shot placement. IIRC NY state also allows any centerfire handgun for deer hunting with some barrel length limits, (16" maybe???) but according to the way the regs are written I could go deer hunting with my 25 ACP handgun. Talk about "go figure"..... That's a real head scratcher.

 

[jmorris]

Is this attitude common in the hunting community?

People talking about things they don't know about or repeating false information?

I don't think that is limited to the hunting community at all and yes it's common.

 

[.308 Norma]

People talking about things they don't know about or repeating false information?

I don't think that is limited to the hunting community at all and yes it's common.

Thank goodness it doesn't happen on the internet.

 

[Pete D.]

"a lot of people..."
How many is a lot? I suspect that the general population of shooters and hunters that we have on these fora would not make that claim about the .223.

stating their own OPINION as fact.

No one states an idea that they believe is an "opinion".
When people state an idea, they believe what they are stating is factual.
"Opinion" is what we call the other guy's facts when we disagree with him (and we are being polite).

 

[langenc]

.223 is certainly legal for big game (including bear) hunting in PA.

However, we had a big hullabaloo this spring to legalize semi-auto rifles for big game hunting. It was finally voted down. One of the primary objections was that hunters would use their .223 chambered AR's, which are inadequate.

Go figure?

So I could use my bolt 223 but you could not your AR 223??? Ive read that PA has some goofy laws. Im sure PA is not the only state, Indiana comes to mind along w/ my state (MI), and the rules regarding 'pistol calibers' in the populated S MI areas.

I know Ohio required shotguns only for many yrs. I believe that changed but check rule book as I no longer live there.

I was going to use the bolt 223 but couldnt get it to shoot well w/ Partitions. So I built an AR upper 25/45 and it is great. Developes about 40+% more energy than the 223.
Come Nov we will see.

 

[Hunter 08]

That's the buffer with most firearms, they tend to like whatever ammo they want to. Might work great with one, but not another.

 

[Varminterror]

Very heavy lead bullets might not stabilize in most ARs, don't know. Mine has a 1:8 twist and seems to really like the all copper Barnes TSX 62 grain, which is longer than a 62 grain lead bullet.

You have this backwards - longer monometal bullets are harder to stabilize than lead core bullets of the same weight.

 

[MCgunner]

You have this backwards - longer monometal bullets are harder to stabilize than lead core bullets of the same weight.

All depends on the rifling twist rate. Rifles that stabilize a 75 grain bullet will have a very fast twist that probably won't shoot well with sub 55 grain bullets. I had this problem with a 1916 Spanish Mauser in 7x57. It was rifled 1:7 and demanded a heavy 175 grain bullet. Try as I might, it would not shoot 140 grain stuff, so I ended up shooting the only bullet I could find in the weight, a 175 grain round nose Hornady.

 

[Varminterror]

It has NEVER been my experience - first hand in building and rebuilding over 700 AR's in the last 20yrs - to see a fast twist AR have a problem with light bullets. As long as you don't tear the bullet apart, there's no negative consequence in shooting light bullets in a 1:7" or even 1:6.5". I use a 50grn V-max as my testing round in every AR I service/build/rebuild, I've never been able to blow one apart, nor have I ever seen a good shooting rifle not shoot this load well. Sure, a rifle which might run 1MOA with the 50vmax might run 3/4" with a 69smk, but it also might run 1 1/4" just as likely.

If a 50-55grn bullet doesn't shoot well in your AR - and I'm not talking about junk 55grn surplus ball which never shoots really well in ANYTHING - then there's something wrong with your AR, no matter what twist it has.

But the statement stands - any monometal copper or gilding metal bullet needs MORE twist to stabilize than a lead core bullet of the same weight, because the copper/gilding metal bullet is longer for its weight. That's physics - long bullets need more twist to stabilize, period.