"Mountain lion attacks 7-year-old hiker" - Boulder CO

[rayra]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/16/mt.lion.attack.ap/index.html

...The boy, whose name was not released, was apparently the last in a single-file line of seven other people taking a short hike at a scenic area of Flagstaff Mountain, Baskfield said.

"The father turned and saw the cat had a hold of the young boy," he said. The group began screaming at the cat and throwing rocks and was able to free the boy, he said.

The group was 50 yards from a parking lot when the cat attacked, Baskfield said. ...

Presumably at least two adults. They should have been bookending this troop.

The kid is damned lucky to still be alive.

Nothing else to say, that hasn't been said many times before.

 

[mbs357]

Some people just don't understand that wild animals and the wild areas are not to be played in.
Glad to see he's ok.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Where do you two get this sort of attitude? You act like the adult(s) were terrible irresponsible for taking kids for a walk 50 yards from a parking lot without organizing it like a military patrol?

 

[mbs357]

Sorry, didn't read the article...
I assumed that hiking meant that it wasn't inside city limits.

 

[steveno]

the bunny huggers will want the game warden fired for shooting the mountain lion. since it isn't exactly rare for this to happen in Colorado the kid shouldn't have been bringing up the rear. that is just common sense in my opinion

 

[Art Eatman]

C.I., what does 50 yards or parking lots have to do with anything in wild country?

Right now, in my south pasture, there's a mama lion and a cub denned up not very far off the jeep trail that's in daily use by a neighbor as his driveway.

Back last fall, over at Terlingua Ghost Town, there was a lion who came up at night to the back door of a restaurant and drank from a dog watering pan. "Regular customer." That went on for some two weeks.

Hey, little children and puppy dogs and such-sized critters make great lion bait!

Seriously, when you're in lion country, you don't take anything for granted. It ain't Walt Disney World, out there.

Art

 

[4v50 Gary]

It's not so much that we're in wild areas anymore. Look at California. No hunting means that the cats have no natural predators. Cats are territorial. As they populate, they expand - into our back yards. Hence the women joggers (watch them bouncing ponytails because they remind cats of deer), the bicyclist who were mauled & eaten (People Eaten by The Animals) and the horse in Woodside (think Shirley Temple) that was mauled. Curb the cat. Hunt 'em back to the woods.

 

[jerkface11]

Creeping Incrementalism Where do you two get this sort of attitude? You act like the adult(s) were terrible irresponsible for taking kids for a walk 50 yards from a parking lot without organizing it like a military patrol?

I'd say letting a kid take the last place in line IS terribly irresponsible. The first and last person should be adults. I'm not going to go into them needing to be armed.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Seriously, when you're in lion country, you don't take anything for granted. It ain't Walt Disney World, out there.

If I didn't take anything for granted, I'd never leave the house. There are moutain lions where I go walking too. People hardly ever worry about it. No one ever gets attacked. Yeah, it might happen, but the odds are about 100X greater that you'll get killed in a car accident driving out there. So don't tell me you're being safe by having adults on the ends and/or packing heat when the most dangerous thing is driving there in the first place.

I visit a town in the mountains where it's not terribly uncommon to see bears walking down the streat when you're walking home from the bar. I might pack heat if it were legal, but I don't feel like I'm taking a risk by not doing so. Worst thing a bear ever did was try to break into the house I was staying in to get food, right after it came out of hibernation, I think. Forest Circus had someone kill it.

I feel a lot safer "risking it" with the bears and lions than I do walking the streets of Oakland/Berkeley at night, or even daytime.

 

[Hyunchback]

Creeping Incrementalism wrote:

Where do you two get this sort of attitude? You act like the adult(s) were terrible irresponsible for taking kids for a walk 50 yards from a parking lot without organizing it like a military patrol?

When children are managed by other than the parents the adults need to be as organized as a security detail or infantry squad.

Whether the predator was a mountain lion or a pedophile the adults were irresponsible for not bookending the children they were in charge of.

Even a walk around the block in full view of the children's parents should be managed so that someone leads and someone follows. Ensure that some adult's eyes are on the children at all times. When you give them back to the parents you can stop being responsible for them. Until they are returned they should be treated like a transfer of the Crown Jewels.

Not doing so is making it more likely that SOMETHING will happen, be it a predator or an accident.

In this case the parents themselves were the ones in charge. They should have been paying more attention and also splitting up the leading/following duties. If your back is to your kid then how do you know he's safe?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Where do you two get this sort of attitude? You act like the adult(s) were terrible irresponsible for taking kids for a walk 50 yards from a parking lot without organizing it like a military patrol?

The kid was attacked by a mountain lion. I'd rather properly organize a hike and supervise the kids than explain to the parents that their child is dead.

 

[Pilot]

Yep, here in CO I'm more afraid of cats than bears. And when you're walking in the woods, do a 360 degree turn every few minutes. They like to sneak up behind you and if they get there jaws around your neck (which they like to do) forget it. They are quiet, quiet, quiet too.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've just come up with a great money-making idea. In India, they wear masks on the backs of their heads in tiger country -- the tiger likes to attack from the rear and will not attack the mask.

Suppose we made up some "Lion Protective Masks" and sold them in these areas?

 

[Guyon]

I agree that this was irresponsible on the part of the adults. Mountain lion or no mountain lion, 7 year-olds need constant supervision. If this child was bringing up the rear, chances are that the adults had their attention facing forward--not back where the child got attacked. And I don't care if he was 50 feet or 50 miles from the asphalt.

Also worth noting... big cats aren't stupid; they'll go after prey that is the most vulnerable and the least able to defend. Who knows? Letting this boy bring up the rear may have triggered the attack to some degree.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Also worth noting... big cats aren't stupid; they'll go after prey that is the most vulnerable and the least able to defend. Who knows? Letting this boy bring up the rear may have triggered the attack to some degree.

A few years back there was a program on keeping tigers as "pets." Apparently there are quite a few in Texas. There were a few shots of people looking at penned tigers, and the narrator commented "Look at what the tigers are looking at."

In every case, it was a child. If there was a child in the group, the tigers couldn't take their eyes off him.

 

[rayra]

I haven't been paying attention - is Creeping Incrementalism some kind of froll?
What kind of Idiot 'plays the odds', EVER? :banghead:

And CI - two young boys hunting turkey(?) last year north of Mill Valley, in your region, heard what they thought was their prey, turned to see it was a cougar stalking them. They were fortunate enough to have the presence of mind to defend themselves.
And here in Los Angeles / Orange we've had at last two seperate cougar attacks in the last 18mos, with fatalities.

Where does YOUR attitude come from, that traipsing around in the scrub is 'safe' or that 'playing the odds' is in ANY way accepatable and worse, acceptable parenting / guardianship?

I took a short day-hike nearly three years ago, with my GSD, not 6mi from my house in northern Los Angeles county and into Angeles National Forest. I was barely 5mi up a regularly-traveled two-lane blacktop, only a 1/2 mile from that road - and even so, I took a day-pack, with basic overnight precautionary gear, snacks, water, emergency blanket, whistle, flashlight, cell phone, and I had a GPS with me for fartin' around with geocaching.
And because it was peak rattlesnake season (we'd had a kid bit IN-town at a RC track) and because a cougar had been sighted at a stable closer to my home, I Open Carried my 1911.

We had a good time for a while.



Then I wound up with this:



I took a misstep and fell off the ruins of the St Francis dam.

Had I 'played the odds' I would have been in VERY dire straights.

But since I had taken a few basic precautions, I was able to facilitate my timely rescue.

And because I'd also taken the time to be completely aware of the relevant firearms laws, I was able to prevail in the subsequent Los Angeles PC-garbage fiasco over my pistol.

How is this relevant? Well, I'll put it as politely as I can - the bleating of someone that's obviously never had anything unfortunate happen to them (or if they did, utterly failed to learn anything from the experience) - and who 'counts on the odds' - means absolutely diddlysquat to me.

Lastly, I'll also point out the pathetic strawman exaggeration that was put forward - that ANYONE was calling for a "military patrol". That is FAR cry from and a deliberate gross mischaracterization of a simple call for the exercise of a little parental awareness / duty in a place where there is possible danger.

One of the greatest failings of the modern age is the dumbing down of public education to the point where it seems the average person is incapable of exercising any critical judgement whatsoever. Is even lectured that 'judgement' of any sort is to be avoided. Therefore, all things are possible, all things are EQUALLY likely. Or UNlikely. And leaves fools 'playing the odds' when a few simple measures would go so very far in ensuring everyone has a safe time / comes home safely.

 

[rayra]

Vern Humphrey

I've just come up with a great money-making idea. In India, they wear masks on the backs of their heads in tiger country -- the tiger likes to attack from the rear and will not attack the mask.

Suppose we made up some "Lion Protective Masks" and sold them in these areas?

You may have been kidding, but I consider that a fine idea. ESPECIALLY for sale to the unaware tripping around CA's forests / Parks.

We also have a home near Lake Isabella in the Sierras, have for several years. I usually have a stiffly-loaded .357 on me when hiking there, sometimes a .44 Blackhawk when there are fresh sitings.
4yrs ago the McNally fire burned 100k++ acres in the Sequoias. We had big cat and bear encroachments throught the area for the next couple years, as the survivors had to come down to human-occupied space.

I've run into cats up there twice, snakes more times than I can count, no bear yet, fortunately.

And the Forestry dept, Tulare and Kern Co sheriffs and DEA pull a LOT of marijuana out of there. I haven't had any run-ins with illegal growers or booby-traps yet, but expect to on any trip into that Forest.

I make damned sure any guests or relations that go up there wiht us are fully aware of what threats are in the area, along with what pleasureable activities are available.
'Playing the odds' is for fools.

 

[rayra]

Guyon

Who knows? Letting this boy bring up the rear may have triggered the attack to some degree.

I'll assert exactly that. He was a target of opportunity. An opportunity that the kid's guardians shouldn't have ever allowed.

 

[Cosmoline]

No one ever gets attacked

They will.

 

[Art Eatman]

I guess I didn't make myself clear: The people of the hiking party took it for granted that nothing bad would happen. They obviously never thought about cougars. So there are cougars around. So what? Had they given any thought to where they were, they easily could have set up their hiking order to safeguard the little guys.

I think we all play the odds to some extent. We use our judgement and experience to determine how much "insurance" we might need, and of what type. It can be a self-defense handgun, or as rayra and his pack of gear. And, if we're halfway smart, we live in Condition Yellow.

My observation of city folks in rough country is that they often don't do any learning ahead of time about what possible hazards exist. We're regularly losing people to the heat, dehydration and falls from slick rock. Even to hypothermia, when a Norther blows in unexpectedly. Nature bats last.

Art

 

[Sindawe]

I assumed that hiking meant that it wasn't inside city limits.

Sorta. Flagstaff Mountain is in the Boulder Mountain Parks, which lies just above the City of Boulder proper. One can still hear the muted roar of Boulder from the East side of the mountain and most meadows that have visual access to the urban areas. And since the entire Flatirons and their backsides are IN the park, park rules apply.

Weapons & Firearms
Visitors with weapons jeopardize the safety of other visitors and wildlife. Prohibiting firearms also protects structures and facilities from vandalism due to target practice.

Possession or discharge of a firearm or weapon, including paint ball guns, is prohibited on OSMP.

One of the reasons I rarely hike up there anymore. 15 mins or so up the canyon and you're in Nat. Forest land. No silly hoplophobic rules there. The green lump in the center right of the attached image is Flagstaff Mountain.

 

[xring44]

Ever notice a goose and gander moveing the little gooslins, one leads, the other brings up the rear----always. I think most people are so out of tune with nature anymore that they don't think. Common sence could have in all likelyhood prevented this.

 

[XLMiguel]

+1 xring44-

I'm not going to cast aspersions on CI, but I will say that anyone who has ever been responsible for herding a bunch of kids (or even some adults) from Point A to Point B who doesn't understand the need for 'bookending' has a very limited understanding of and/or experience with the human species.

 

[The-Fly]

sindawe, too bad their park rules arent enforceable. CO is a pre-emptive state , so i'd pack away and thumb my nose at the hippies.

 

[Heraclid]

Speaking of geese, I spooked a mother goose off her nest last week and the gander flew across from the other side of the lake quite ready to attempt to kick my rear end. It was pretty cool to see his devotion.

On the other hand, also last week, a goose was leading three goslings away from me but would never lead them ashore and one was not faring well at all. I used the boat to run them onto a corner so they had to hit the dirt before the little guy went under or something.

Nothing to do with mountain lions, but...

And the cottonmouths are EVERYWHERE right now. Geez! It got spooky one time a few weeks back.