Moving to reloading .308 rifle - Upgrade to Loadmaster or buy single stage?

[Falconeer]

Hay there folks!
I'm REALLY hoping not to start a kool-aid war here, but would like to ask the THR collective it's opinions/advice.

I currently load 9mm & 357 Sig on a Lee Pro 1000 press and have been very happy with it. I'm in the process of building up a rifle for long range shooting, so I want to start reloading .308. Unfortunately the Pro 1000 won't do rifle rounds that long without making switching back and forth a real pain.

So I'm looking at a couple of options:
a) Upgrading to a Load Master - I like this one for a couple of reasons, some being I can reuse some of my Lee gear from the Pro 1000, it would give me a five hole press to load pistol on (which would help with the 357 Sig, as I have a FCD I now use as a seperate step), etc. The downside is the cost.

b) Buying an inexpensive single-stage press for just rifle. This is easier to swing money wise, but makes the reloading process take longer. Of course, my understanding is we don't go through rifle ammo the way we go through pistol (I sure don't use as much 12 gauge trap ammo as I do pistol! ) so this may not be that big a deal.

Here's what I'm looking for:
1) Experience yay/nay using the Loadmaster as both a pistol and rifle caliber press.

2) Advice on pros/cons between progressive vs single stage rifle reloading

3) Any other ideas/suggestions/etc.

Here's what I'm NOT looking for:
1) "You should buy Dillon/Hornady/RCBS cuz Lee sucks!" - I'm very happy with my Pro 1000. When I bought it I never planned on reloading for rifle. The Pro 1000 will load smaller rifle cartridges (.223, etc), but I decided to go the .308 route.

2) "You should toss everything and replace it with a 550/650/AP Progressive/etc!" - I can't afford to spend a metric buttload of money on a totally new progressive set up. I can get a used & reconditioned Loadmaster and the shell plates and die carrier for rifle for $150, which makes it cost effective because I can use primer feeds, powder feeds, etc from my existing Lee setup.

The main question is 'Upgrade to Loadmaster or buy new single stage'. Thanks in advance for your assistance!

 

[USSR]

Falconeer,

Go with a single-stage press for PRECISION rifle reloading. I am assuming you want to have that incoming Savage put the bullets all in one small hole? While it doesn't really matter what press you get, DO get some good dies to make your ammo with. Highly recommend the Redding dies that use bushings. Why? Different makes of brass have different thicknesses at the neck. Proper neck tension is crucial to developing accurate ammo (along with a few other things). The ability to size your necks the correct amount according to the brass you are using will benefit you greatly. Just MHO.

Don

 

[Jim Watson]

I have been accumulating progressive loaders, pistol and shotshell, for years, but I still load rifle ammo on single stage. I read all the time of people loading wonderful rifle ammo on progressives, but I don't feel capable of doing my best work on one.

What do you really mean by "a rifle for long range shooting?"

I hang out with a target shooter and HE means 600 - 1000 yards with score being kept. He loads single stage, too.

A LR match is 20 rounds plus sighters; you only get two at 600 yards, normally unlimited at 1000, but you should not have to fire too many if you have a basic zero. A pure LR competition will have two or three individual matches and add them up for aggregate.

If I do everything available over the next month I will go with him to shoot
a 3x1000 (60 shots plus some number of sighters), a 3x600 (60 shots, 6 sighters), and a 6x1000 (120 shots + some number of sighters over two days.) That's 240+ shots with first class ammunition over a month's time; plus some load tweaking and basic zero determination. Probably 350 rounds all told.
Most target shooters are protective of their barrel life and don't go plinking with their match rifles.

 

[Rockstar]

I don't think going to a Loadmaster from any press would be an "upgrade." Like Jim, I prefer a single stage, eg., Rockchucker, for precision rifle loading. For rifle loading in bulk, eg., for my AR, I'd choose just about any brand's progressive over the Loadmaster.

 

[Richard.Howe]

This is an easy one.

If you're shooting high volumes, a la Garand or AR-308, then go progressive.

If you're shooting for precision, then go single-stage. It is more accurate and repeatable (IMHO) than a progresssive set up.

Rich

 

[Falconeer]

Thanks kindly for the advice folks. I'll start looking at single stage presses.

Jim: I'm just starting on the rifle front, but one day I'd like to be doing 400-600 yard stuff, perhaps all the way out to 1000. That's the goal, we'll see how it goes.

 

[Adam_MA]

Funny thing...

I was just in the same boat as you. I WILL NOT give up my Pro-1000 for anything. I love it, it works flawlessly, and I can crank out just as much volume for MUCH lower price.

So I went for the Lee single stage setup for my rifle reloading. A good day on the range with my bolt gun, is somewhere between 40-100 rounds. I can't see using a progressive press to do that volume of ammo.

Besides, as said above, you will have more accurate loads on a single stage press.

Adam

 

[Falconeer]

So I went for the Lee single stage setup for my rifle reloading. A good day on the range with my bolt gun, is somewhere between 40-100 rounds. I can't see using a progressive press to do that volume of ammo.

Which Lee single stage did you go for, and why? I'm looking at the Lee Challenger Press Kit. I already have a scale and everything. The turret presses are intriguing as well.

 

[Rockstar]

I started reloading on a Challenger. Frankly, the press just isn't "substantial" enough for your purposes. I'd go with either a Rockchucker or the equivalent Lee heavy press. I think, upon investigation, you'll find that your Pro1000 is REALLY a superior press to the Loadmaster.

 

[Falconeer]

BTW, anyone ever used the Lee Hand Press? I thought it would be kind of slick for load development at the range (take a bunch of primed brass and try different powder charges). Not

 

[Adam_MA]

I went with the Challenger setup. I know folks who have loaded the entire range of ammo on them, up to the larger magnum rounds, without issue. I will be running my first round of loads on it this weekend, and if time allows tonight, I may even try sizing some brass to get the feel for it. I'll let you know how it goes.

Adam

 

[Powderman]

Loading .308, eh?

The only thing that makes the progressive worthwhile is the speedy priming. To address that, I recommend the Lee Auto Prime II to use with the single stage press. Its advantages are that it mounts on the press, uses regular shellholders, and you can prime with great consistency and uniformity.

The single stage press seems to be the way to go. Or, have you considered a turret press? Lee makes their regular turret press, and now (IIRC) offers a cast iron version that should last a lifetime. This way, you can install your dies, set them and leave them alone.

FWIW, almost ALL of my dies are Lee dies. I know of no better bargain on the market. My Lee .30-06 dies work just as well for rounds for my Garand as well as rounds for my '03 Springfield.

 

[Falconeer]

Thanks Adam! It seems kind of difficult to mess up a single stage press, but ya never know. I'm sure there are manufacturers out there who do it.

 

[YellowLab]

For UBER accuracy 1000 yards - Single stage. I would get 2 so one has just a sizer/decapper set to set the shoulder (or size the neck, your choice) then the second press for bullet seating... less hassle in changing dies.

Lee presses (the challenger) will definately handle .308, and you can buy 2 for the cost of 1 competitors.

 

[azredhawk44]

I broke my Partner press

by asking it to do things that it really couldn't handle (in hindsight).

I started by loading 45acp.
Then I got a 30-30.
Then I got a .357.
Then I got a 44mag.
Finally started loading for 308, and broke the base of the press by full length sizing the brass.

Went out and got a rockchucker.

Blue/Green/Red/Orange don't matter so much as consistency. Is the press tough enough to not flex, crack or break while resizing?

Make sure you get something more of a "Rockchucker" size rather than a "Partner" size when you get a 308 single stage press.

 

[Car Knocker]

Falconeer,

I suggest that you read the following regarding the Lee Classic Turret Press:

http://www.realguns.com/archives/122.htm

http://www.realguns.com/archives/123.htm

This may well give you the best of both worlds.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Falconeer,

I'm very much in a similar position to you, except I already own a progressive that will reload rifle and I have a single stage, but I need something just a bit faster than a single stage to load for my milsurp rifles.

I have a Lee Classic Cast press. It's what made me sell my Rock Chucker, because it's more capable and a more modern design, just as rugged and cheaper. If you you buy a single stage, I suggest you look at this. You can add the Hornady Lock N Load bushing conversion setup and be able to change dies in seconds.

I would suggest you also look at the Lee classic turret press, which is what I'm doing. It's pretty fast (~200 rounds/hour) and is probably capable of loading the most accurate rifle ammo out there of any turret available today. It's also a very new design by Lee.

I think you'll be very happy with either of these presses and save yourself a good bit of money.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Falconeer]

Thanks for all the helpful comments, folks! I'm currently leaning towards either the Lee Classic Turret, the Lee Challenger, or the Lee Classic Cast. Cost is concern, so the Challenger is in the lead. I need to buy the .308 dies at the same time (Lee Deluxe rifle die set so I have both neck and full length sizing) and the Lee Challenger kit is discounted at that point.

azredhawk44: Ouch! Have you conctacted RCBS about it? I imagine they'd replace it free of charge. Couldn't hurt to have a spare.

Thank again folks!

 

[Lennyjoe]

I use a progressive for handgun and bulk .223 AR-15 loads. All othe rifle loads are done on a single stage.

For my 22-250 and 30-06 I use an RCBS neck sizing die once the brass is fireformed to the chamber. ALL other actions are done in Lee dies.

Rifle cartridge priming is done by hand in a Lee hand primer so I can seat them accordingly.

 

[azredhawk44]

Yep, I've contacted them and once I send in the old one they will send me a new one.

I've got the new Rockchucker in the meantime, so I'm not in a turrible hurry or anything. Not like RCBS is going out of business any time soon.

Once I get the new one back, I may set it purely for my favorite .308 bullet seating and leave it alone after that. I have 2 .308 seating dies, so I could still use other bullets in .308 by using the Rockchucker to do seating.

 

[Infidel]

I use a Lee Challenger press, which was part of the Anniversary Kit that I got about 10 years ago. I haven't seen any reason to consider replacing it. I install primers using the Lee Auto-Prime handheld doohickie. Why do they call a handheld manual priming tool an "Auto-Prime"?

 

[trickyasafox]

if you were loading some blasting ammo, i'd say load master, but if you really want to tighten up groups you really should consider a single. not saying progressives can't produce precision, because they definatly can, but for me anyway a single has suited those needs a touch better.

 

[Falconeer]

Welp, I called Midway this morning and placed my order. They have a sale going on for the Classic Turret ($75) so that's what I went with. That along with a set of Lee Deluxe dies (neck sizer, full length sizer, and seating die) for $24 and I'm on my way. I also picked up a case cutter, length gauge, chamfer tool, primer pocket cleaner, and some 150grn Remington core-lok bullets ($9.59 per 100). Thanks for all the help!

 

[azredhawk44]

Falconeer:

Those Remington Bullets aint too bad. I picked them up and shot iron sights with my M1A with this pattern.

I blame the vertical spread purely on myself. I don't have a powder baffle in my measure and my powder throw varies by 0.2 or 0.3gr because of that.

I also didn't deburr flash holes or use a case length guage on these particular cases. I think that and less than perfect eyesight contribute to the vertical spread, but horizontally these are very consistent bullets. More care on my part during case prep and powder measuring would probably result in much improved vertical groups.

Winchester case
WLR primer
H335 - 42.3gr
Remington 150gr SP
2.790" OAL

Everybody talks up 168gr BTHP Match bullets and IMR4895. I have hodgdon's equivalent H4895 and some Hornady match, so I will try that next.

 

[Adam_MA]

I know you said you ordered the turret press, but I said I would give a report on the Challenger press after I used it some, so here it is.
On Friday night I seated 30 rounds of ammo to work up to a load. No issues to report, all went better and smoother than I expected. Last night I prepped 70 cases for next weekend. I neck sized 50 , and 20 were full length sized. Both sizing operations went without hitch, and I was able to size, trim (only 8 cases needed trimming) and prime all 70 cases in no time. I was a bit anxious that the press would not perform correctly because of all the Lee disparity that is out there, but same as with my Pro 1000 everything went flawlessly. This press has renewed my faith in Lee Precision.

I will continue to be a Lee customer

Adam