My 2 cents on bore cleaning (with more Teslong pics)

[Walkalong]

The cleaning stuff came today. Last Thursday I shot three rounds to foul the rifle for the match today which I did not attend because of the precautions we are all taking right now. At 82 degrees the shots were 2936 (clean bore), then 2951 & 2955. Those two matched up well with the three I had fired the week before to get numbers. At 71 degrees they were 2955, 2956, & 2957.

Since I have been using Tactical Advantage on the rifle ever since the second real cleaning I am going to try the Carb-Out. Watching the movie Bullitt right now, maybe later, maybe tomorrow.

Since the VFG pellets were out of stock at Sinclairs/Brownells I picked up some Tipton pellets and a Dewey jag intended for the VFG pellets.

 

[SwampWolf]

Thanks for starting this informative thread, Nature Boy. Lots of helpful tips that even some of us older, know-it-all types can benefit from!

 

[Nature Boy]

Pulled my AR out of the safe to see how bad my cleaning methods used to be. It’s got ~2,000 rounds through it (all M855) and I haven’t shot it in 4-5 years.



Here’s before. Quite a bit of copper and some fire cracking



Here’s after using Wipe Out, some Bortech and a but of effort

 

[Walkalong]

I finally got the rifle out to try Carb-Out. I have been playing with the focus on the bore scope but obviously don't have it right yet.

So I take my "clean" rifle (Bore scope pics in Post #127 show the carbon) and run a patch soaked in Carb-Out through the barrel, 'scrubbing" it back and forth. Here is a pic of that patch and one of the last ones (might not be the exact one) from the "clean" barrel.

Hmmm


Then I push another patch through, it's just as nasty. Then I try the Tipton felt pellet, but it wouldn't go over the Dewey jag for the VFG felt pellets, so I used my regular jag to push it through. It was a very loose fit and didn't really do anything.



Then I pushed a couple of loose fitting patches through, then a larger tighter fitting patch (third from left) then a couple of dry patches.

Clean, right?

 

[Walkalong]

This is when I use the nylon brush. Wet it and scrub 5 or 6 passes, spray the brush clean with B12 Chemtool and crud comes out of it. Run a patch through and it brings out crud.


Then I ran a dry tight patch through, then a looser one saturated with Carb-Out.

 

[Walkalong]

Then I broke out the bore scope and the carbon is still there, but starting to come out.


I wet patched it a couple more times with Carb-Out and it is sitting and soaking. I need to go play with the focus on the scope.

 

[TonyAngel]

Have you considered lapping your barrel so that it doesn’t pick up so much copper?

 

[Walkalong]

It came that way, but after 500+ rounds with not enough cleaning, I have some stubborn carbon buildup.

An hour of soaking helped a little, got some out, but there is more to go.

Brushed it, then two wet patches and a dry one. The Carb-Out is not clear, you can see the color here.


Still carbon, getting better at the end of the barrel, still plenty early on.

Near the end of the barrel.



The crown.


I may be moving the mirror too much at one time (2 to three threads) on the scope. Better though.

I wet brushed it again, then ran two wet patches through, and am going to let it soak overnight.

 

[Legionnaire]

I guess the question is, "How important is it to get all the carbon out?" I got all the copper out of my new-to-me .280 AI, but the carbon has me stumped.

 

[Walkalong]

"How important is it to get all the carbon out?"

I know right, it was shooting well with the carbon.

 

[Nature Boy]

I guess the question is, "How important is it to get all the carbon out?" I got all the copper out of my new-to-me .280 AI, but the carbon has me stumped.

just my opinion, but it’s detrimental over time when it builds up to a point where it affects accuracy. At that point it’s really hard to get it out. So my process is to get it all out when I clean and that makes it a lot easer to stay on top of it going forward

For @Walkalong

That stubborn carbon will come out but you might need to use a bore paste like JB or Iosso

 

[hps1]

It came that way, but after 500+ rounds with not enough cleaning, I have some stubborn carbon buildup.

An hour of soaking helped a little, got some out, but there is more to go.

Brushed it, then two wet patches and a dry one. The Carb-Out is not clear, you can see the color here.
View attachment 903826 View attachment 903827



Still carbon, getting better at the end of the barrel, still plenty early on.

Near the end of the barrel.
View attachment 903833

The crown.
View attachment 903834

I may be moving the mirror too much at one time (2 to three threads) on the scope. Better though.

I wet brushed it again, then ran two wet patches through, and am going to let it soak overnight.

If there is any carbon left after this stage, would be interesting to apply TA w/IOSSO brush just to compare effectiveness on baked on carbon. Due to my limited round count per outing, I do not get the "opportunity" to run that test myself as it would take months to reach your volume.

In your last pictures it appears that you have uncovered another layer or copper??, but that may just be a reflection. I've always thought that layering is probable but, again, my low round count and TA doesn't support that theory, as one treatment usually removes all powder and copper fouling both.

Agree w/Nature Boy, it's a lot easier to keep carbon out each outing (no matter round count) than it is to get out "baked" on carbon.

Great thread, NB, thanks for starting! Really appreciate all the feedback everyone providing. Combined experience of all with different products/procedures benefits us all.

Regards,
hps

 

[Walkalong]

That stubborn carbon will come out but you might need to use a bore paste like JB

I do have some JB.

 

[Nature Boy]

In your last pictures it appears that you have uncovered another layer or copper

I agree. There's copper under the carbon.

 

[Walkalong]

So, after the barrel sitting all night and day after a couple of wet patches I ran a patch through soaked with Carb-Out, got a tiny bit of crud, then another wet patch, virtually nothing, then a dry patch. Looked at the barrel and it looked about like it did when I put it away last night.

All depends on where you stop the scope.

 

[Walkalong]

So it was time to get mean. I used the brush with JB, then three wet patches (Tactical Advantage) and JB, then three dry ones.

 

[Walkalong]

Starting at the lands and working to the crown.

 

[Walkalong]

 

[Walkalong]

 

[Walkalong]

So, getting there, dang baked on carbon....

I really want to try the VFG pellets.

 

[hps1]

So, getting there, dang baked on carbon....

I really want to try the VFG pellets.

The VFG pellets, in my limited experience, are not much different than JB paste on a mop or on patch-on-a-brush, but that's just my opinion. I do use the VFG plain felt pellets w/JB paste on occasion w/comparable results to the abrasive pellets. Anyone else have any better results w/the abrasive pellets?

Here's an interesting article describing the use of CLR and VFG pellets on some high $$ equipment. I've used the pellets but never did get up the nerve to try the CLR. Article is complimentary, though. http://primalrights.com/library/articles/evolution-barrel-cleaning

Baked on carbon is different than powder fouling I deal with, obviously, but for powder fouling, the TA serves well, especially if left to soak a few hours.

ETA: Just noticed I put in everything but the link......Fixed senior moment.

Regards,
hps

 

[Nature Boy]

You got it knocked out @Walkalong

 

[homers]

I've read many reputable sources, including high end barrel manufacturers, that more damage is done to barrels during cleaning (cleaning to often, using the wrong cleaners, not using proper tools, improper cleaning techniques)

 

[Walkalong]

I've read many reputable sources, including high end barrel manufacturers, that more damage is done to barrels during cleaning (cleaning to often, using the wrong cleaners, not using proper tools, improper cleaning techniques)

No doubt.

 

[Nature Boy]

I've read many reputable sources, including high end barrel manufacturers, that more damage is done to barrels during cleaning (cleaning to often, using the wrong cleaners, not using proper tools, improper cleaning techniques)

I’ve also read some of that, except the “too often” part.

If you only clean a barrel when it’s dirty, and stop when it’s clean, how could you be over cleaning it?