My apologies to the SUV crowd on THR

[Kindrox]

I am enjoying a debate on CBS news page
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/04/national/main2760843.shtml

I am not actually for banning SUVs but I do like using them as vehicles (pardon the pun) to show the hypocrisy of banning guns. John Q citizen often loves to think of their SUV as a good thing because it is “safe” but frankly this safety comes because of it’s ability (in a crash) to transfer energy (destroy) what the SUV hits, instead of the SUV occupants taking the energy.

Predictably people cannot (initially) see any relation to gun control, but I point out how they are deadly for people who don’t have one and people don’t actually *need* them, and I let the people argue that just because they are deadly and people don’t need them does not mean people should not be allowed to own them!

I am still refining the argument but have had some sucess with it.

 

[Erebus]

You can parallel it this way

The SUV up here in the northeast has a purpose just like the gun does. The gun is for protection the 4WD is for getting around in the snow. It's not very often that you will actually need the 4WD but when you need it you NEED it. Otherwise you are waiting for the gov/DPW to come plow you out. With a really big storm and depending on where you are it could be a while. Just like when you need a gun you NEED a gun. Otherwise you are waiting for the gov/police to come save you.

 

[Kindrox]

so glad to see someone else sick and tired of these monstrous suv's. i drive a nissan altima and love it. i work at a university and you should see the parking lots. my vehicle is one of the very few 'regular cars' there. nothing but those d@mn suvs. i too will be glad when the craze is over.

Of course the thing could back fire and I could be responsible for starting 10 SUV-control organizations

 

[Erebus]

Well the 'craze' goes back easily 50+ years up here.

 

[TX1911fan]

I think an even better car to use is a Viper, Corvette, BMW convertable, Ferrari, etc. Those cars are designed to do one thing very well, go REALLY FAST. Given that going freally ast is illegal unless you are on a race track, and that these cars only seat two people and have terrible gas mileage, no one should have them, so they should just be banned. They are also a danger to people because anyone who has one just can't help themselves and so will naturally speed. This will cause accidents and innocent people will die.

 

[halvey]

It's not very often that you will actually need the 4WD but when you need it you NEED it.

I have and have know many to live in the sticks of Minnesota for years, and never once "need" a 4WD.

 

[Kindrox]

I think an even better car to use is a Viper, Corvette, BMW convertable, Ferrari, etc. Those cars are designed to do one thing very well, go REALLY FAST. Given that going freally ast is illegal unless you are on a race track, and that these cars only seat two people and have terrible gas mileage, no one should have them, so they should just be banned. They are also a danger to people because anyone who has one just can't help themselves and so will naturally speed. This will cause accidents and innocent people will die.

I like the SUV because John Q. Citizen often identifies strongly with them, where most people don't have exotic cars and don't take the arguement personally. Once the are "hooked" you can ask questions like

1ST this is a sory about a cop being honored by MADD driving drunk.
2ND, I drive a SUV and was run off the road by an idiot in a mustang, thank god I was in the
SUV it saved my life, unlike the idiot in the mustang, passed him after he totaled his car trying to pass someone on the shoulder of the road four days later.
Posted by pghlady3 at 02:18 PM : May 04, 2007

and my response

Wouldn’t society as a whole be better off if nobody had one? We could stop the *arms race* on the roads. Ok yeah your life was saved but what if you had taken some defensive driving, you could have either avoided that road or used a smaller car to maneuver around the Mustang. And how often does an SUV save a life anyway? More people with SUVs probably kill themselves with roll overs and would have been safer in a car.

I try to reverse the argument as much as I can, and when they get entrenched, just switch SUV for GUN. I have not had anyone's head explode, but it sets people to thinking.

 

[TallPine]

The trouble with satire these days is that you just can't compete with the power hungry control freaks.

Give them an idea and they are off and running with it


BTW, I can't get in or out of my driveway with a 2wd when it rains. The county road isn't much better when it gets wet enough. And I bet most people have bought 3 or 4 new cars during the life (so far) of my Suburban.

 

[jnojr]

Of course the thing could back fire and I could be responsible for starting 10 SUV-control organizations

They're already out there.

"They use too much gas!"

"They emit too much smog!"

"They're too big and dangerous!"

"They're used to go off-road and run over precious endangered tortoises!"

The state of California wants to put thousands of dollars of extra taxes on SUVs to discourage people from buying them.

 

[Kindrox]

The trouble with satire these days is that you just can't compete with the power hungry control freaks.

Give them an idea and they are off and running with it

This CBS forum sure proves that point. Lets see what happens as the debate finally moves to guns . . .

 

[Erebus]

I have and have know many to live in the sticks of Minnesota for years, and never once "need" a 4WD.

Good for them. I have needed 4WD when getting out of work at 1AM. Unless you think I should shovel the 1/2 mile long uphill driveway at work before going home, the plows don't arrive until between 4 and 5am. And when I get home my driveway is buried from the city plowing the street.

 

[Milkmaster]

My wife drives a car based SUV and it only weighs about half of her 73 Ford Stationwagon and gets way better mileage. Most of the new SUV's do look very much like stationwagons of old and are more efficient. I don't see what the big gripe is all about. The majority of SUV's are not the huge Navigator types anyways.

 

[Dain Bramage]

My family loves our Expedition. We have four kids, friends, family and stuff. Every year it sees dirt roads when we camp and hunt. It is absolutley stable on snow. Last winter, in low 4wd I crawled past spun out cars, uphill on glare ice.

The trick is to know your limitations. It's a luxo SUV. We drive it like a truck, not a race car. I make no allusions to running the Rubicon trail with it. If I ever hang my nuts up in a tree, it will be from riding my Suzuki 1200 Bandit, not the SUV. And any busybody that wants to take our SUV away can stuff it.

 

[gbran]

SUV vs. econo car?

Never bring a .22 to a 12 ga fight.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I terms of SUVs either using "too much gas" (whatever that means) or being dangerous to smaller vehicles, I ask: do you eat bananas or drink bottled water? Do you NEED either? They both use a LOT of energy and travel to your neighborhood in vehicles that would decimate a Mini Cooper in an accident.

 

[Lucky]

I have and have know many to live in the sticks of Minnesota for years, and never once "need" a 4WD.

Well, need may be subjective. But when I had a Mercury Villager minivan instead of a Jeep Cherokee I got stuck a couple times. FWD and CV joints meant that the wheel with the least traction got the most power. So if you get 1 wheel into a snowbank and it sticks, the other drive wheel will lose power. Honestly you can step on the gas and the stuck wheel will spin in it's hole, while the wheel on pavement won't budge an inch.

After an hour of digging and pouring wiper fluid on the ice&snow I figured it classified as a 'need'.


Plus if you drive on a gravel road, especially one that's re-graded often, and thus it is often just covered with a layer of gravel, then FT4WD is excellent. FWD cars fishtail easily, and RWD cars tend towards spinning out when you try to do something as simple as leave one of the ruts you're driving in. Same with snow. Basically any time traction is less than dry pavement in summer, 4WD is advantageous. So 4WD is good.

And then some people got the idea that instead of a trunk, they could add greater enclosed space with 2 little pieces of sheet-metal and glass, and convert a sedan body to a station-wagon body. It's actually a sensible and efficient thing to do.

And then some other people figured that if they put taller tires and better suspension on the vehicle it would be better for driving on conditions that aren't flat dry pavement.


And that's all an SUV is. (especially the Honda Ridgelines, which are built on the same exact platform as the Accord!!!)

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I tried to make tequila once but I didn't know what was in it besides worms. Pretty gross. Still got me drunk though.

My soda almost spit out of my nose when I read that. I'm very glad I wasn't drinking worm-only-based tequila (for a lot of reasons).

Prohibiting any tool that performs a job that is legal smacks of a play for political control based on class warfare or envy.

In other words "IT'S STILL A FREE COUNTRY!"

Banning a specific type of gun, a specific type of vehicle, a specific type of thinking are all the same thing. And this kind of action must be stopped wherever it appears.

For me, it's very simple. I bought my wife a 1500 Suburban because it's the second safest non-commercial vehicle on the road.

She and I also love tooling around in deep snow. Although the Ford Expedition is better for that.

 

[pcosmar]

I don't understand, which SUV don't I need?

 

[CDignition]

My Hummer H2 doesn't car what anyone thinks..and neither do I,lol

 

[Im283]

Most people that have SUV's or pickup trucks do not need them. Some people that have them need them.

What annoys me is the line of SUV's and big 4 wheel drive pickups surrounding
grammar and middle schools at the end of the school day, one kid, one mom in each. What a waste of money. what ever happened to school buses?

If you camp and off road you may well need a suv or pick up truck. But does your wife really need one to go to the mall in?

We used to have the standing joke about SUV being Mall-Runner's. A play off on Four-Runner.

The amount of waste in our society today is the bigger issue, and SUV's are just a symbol of it.

And I admit I am an offender. I drive a full size pick up. But in my favor it is not 4wd, has a V-6 and a stick shift. Do i need it? No, but i use it and am glad I have it when it comes to camping or hauling things. I am hauling stuff two times or so a week. If I lived in a condo or had a tract house with no land I would not have it.

Hard to compare guns to vehicles. Guns are for self defense, I do not buy into needing a SUV for safety. Besides anti-gun people are not going to see the comparison.

 

[TX1911fan]

Im283, that is exactly the problem attitude. In the USA, YOU don't get to decide what I need. I get to decide what I need. No on really needs a house bigger than about 1,500 square feet, and probably even smaller than that. Yet we all WANT to live in a big house. No one needs to eat more than about 1,500 calories a day, but we sure area a bunch of big fat people. No one NEEDS a big screen TV, but they sure sell a lot of them. We don't need soda pop, chips, candy, beer, movies, sit coms, swimming pools, indoor plumbing or professional sports. But we LIKE those things, and so long as they are not illegal, who the hell cares if it is a waste or not. If you think it is a waste for your wife to drive an SUV to pick up your kids from school, then don't buy her one. But it's no one else's business what the rest of us do. If society as a whole thinks something is bad, then outlaw it. Otherwise, this whole "who needs that" line of thinking is useless, and worse, dangerous, because pretty soon, something you like will be on the list of stuff we don't "need."

/rant

 

[gaston_45]

"What annoys me is the line of SUV's and big 4 wheel drive pickups surrounding
grammar and middle schools at the end of the school day, one kid, one mom in each. What a waste of money. what ever happened to school buses?"

So you see them for all of five minutes and decide that they have too much vehicle?? What do you want them to do? Get the SUV for bad weather and family trips and buy a tiny car just to drop the kid off at school so they don't offend your delecate overconsumption sensibilities? That seems kind of counterproductive doesn't it?

I love it when people start an argument against something with " most people don't need". What they usually mean is " I don't need it so I will never believe anyone else would need one". I have an SUV, it has seating for seven, has 4 wheel drive, and gets 20 miles per gallon. On the freeway it will even get 22 mpg!

I not only have to get my kids places but many times I have my kids and my parents. Without the SUV that would take two cars, and even at 30 mpg that's more gas than one SUV. Mass transit you say? That is nice for those that live in the city, but some of us have to live further out and grow the food you city folk eat. Can't have stinky cows and farms near those shiny new condos can we? Plants and animals don't grow on asphault so that means mud in the Oregon winters. I guess that 4wd isn't so useless afterall is it?

Heck, even our ambulance is on a Ford superduty 4 wheel drive chassis with a 10,000 pound winch on it. Both get used quite a bit. A majority of the country is not citified and that is why there are a lot of SUV's. Outside the city and for people that have families larger than two, SUV's make a lot of sense.

 

[toivo]

Want, need, whatever. I'm not going to get into that argument. But what ticks me off is people that have a vehicle that is bigger than they know how to drive. I meet them all the time on the back road that I live on. They're way over on your side of the road when they come at you, and they force you over to the shoulder when they have a good five feet of leeway on their passenger side. They just don't know how to judge the width of their vehicle and are always shying away from the ditch. In the old days we used to call them "road hogs"--it's the driver, not the vehicle.

 

[eliphalet]

If you feel the need to worry.
Forget the SUV's worry about the greed and corruption in the oil industry world wide and how that greed filters into our lives.
The SUV idea is a joke on any one that falls for it IMO.
It's all about the money not what car you or some one else drives.

 

[bensdad]

They can have my SUV when they tow it from my attached, three-car garage!