My Issue With A Carry Gun
- Thread starter Orion8472
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Hearing loss from firearms is cumulative. A few shots with no ear protection isn't likely to cause any lasting damage unless you're shooting something really loud AND discharging it close to your head. I know of 2 LE officers who did suffer hearing damage when they discharged 357 mag revolvers while in a life or death fight with bad guys. They had to fire their guns from unconventional positions inside enclosed areas with the gun close to their head. They did suffer hearing loss, but they also survived.
Don't misunderstand. Every time you discharge a firearm the noise is causing damage. But it takes a while for the damage to reach the point where it is noticeable. Even when wearing hearing protection. The foam plugs you are wearing is just causing less damage than using nothing. I'd get better protection or always double up.
Practice with ear protection, but if you have to defend yourself the few shots necessary to save your life aren't likely to cause serious damage unless you find yourself in a situation like described above. If you think a 22, especially from a handgun, is enough quieter to make any difference you're just kidding yourself. I'd avoid a magnum revolver. And while a 22 can work, it isn't my 1st choice, nor my 2nd or 3rd. The 4-5 shots that may be necessary to stop a bad guy with a 22 will do more damage to your hearing than 1-2 shots from a 9mm or 45.
Don't misunderstand. Every time you discharge a firearm the noise is causing damage. But it takes a while for the damage to reach the point where it is noticeable. Even when wearing hearing protection. The foam plugs you are wearing is just causing less damage than using nothing. I'd get better protection or always double up.
Practice with ear protection, but if you have to defend yourself the few shots necessary to save your life aren't likely to cause serious damage unless you find yourself in a situation like described above. If you think a 22, especially from a handgun, is enough quieter to make any difference you're just kidding yourself. I'd avoid a magnum revolver. And while a 22 can work, it isn't my 1st choice, nor my 2nd or 3rd. The 4-5 shots that may be necessary to stop a bad guy with a 22 will do more damage to your hearing than 1-2 shots from a 9mm or 45.
Hokkmike
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When you are at the range you always us hearing protection. -GOOD.
In a SD scenario staying alive is more important than maintaining a hearing level. The likely-hood of this occurring is near ZERO.
Sounds like a manufactured problem.
In a SD scenario staying alive is more important than maintaining a hearing level. The likely-hood of this occurring is near ZERO.
Sounds like a manufactured problem.
I shoot on a indoor range too.
I usually try to get there when it opens hoping to have it to myself for a bit.
I wear foam ear plugs and muffs even if I'm the only one in there; I can't imagine using foam only, no reason. Wear both even if you have the place to yourself.
When you shoot 9mm with muffs and plugs, does it actually hurt your ears, or is it just louder than you expect? It's quite possible that you're reacting more to felt recoil and blast than the sound. I know if I take a break from the range, when I go back, the adrenaline kicks in a lot harder and my hands will shake a bit. If I'm regularly showing up, I don't have the same problem, because I'm used to the stimulus of gunshots.
If I am correct, and it's more about the adrenaline than actual hearing damage, then what I would do is find a gun in a "carry caliber" that you're comfortable with, and that comes with a .22 in a similar gun. A simple example would be a Glock with a .22 LR conversion kit. Shoot a magazine or two of 9mm, and then spend the rest of your time shooting .22s.
If I am incorrect (or even if I'm not), one thing you may want to look into is a suppressor. A suppressed 9mm is going to be much better for your hearing than unsuppressed. If that's a feasible option, you may want to go that route.
There's a post recently about love for the .32. I'm honestly on the lookout for a Keltec P32, which would become my go-to carry gun. I would likely carry FMJs or those monolithic rounds. It's what I do in my .380.
If I am correct, and it's more about the adrenaline than actual hearing damage, then what I would do is find a gun in a "carry caliber" that you're comfortable with, and that comes with a .22 in a similar gun. A simple example would be a Glock with a .22 LR conversion kit. Shoot a magazine or two of 9mm, and then spend the rest of your time shooting .22s.
If I am incorrect (or even if I'm not), one thing you may want to look into is a suppressor. A suppressed 9mm is going to be much better for your hearing than unsuppressed. If that's a feasible option, you may want to go that route.
There's a post recently about love for the .32. I'm honestly on the lookout for a Keltec P32, which would become my go-to carry gun. I would likely carry FMJs or those monolithic rounds. It's what I do in my .380.
What I've heard over and over again from folks who have done live fire without hearing protection (i.e. military, law enforcement, self-defense) is that you don't notice the sound during the self-defense situation. So I would worry mainly about what you can do in the range.
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Orion8472
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Skribs, it doesn't hurt my ears, it's just louder than I'd like. As jmr40 was saying, it is cumulative,...and I know that, even with hearing protection, the louder weapons can still add to the cumulative. So I'm just trying to be proactive.
Also, I was in a situation where I was near a 9mm inside, without hearing protection.....so I figure I need to do what I can for the future. It was very loud...and took awhile before I was able to hear "normally" again. And I do hear pretty well, now, but do have a bit of tinnitus.
Also, I was in a situation where I was near a 9mm inside, without hearing protection.....so I figure I need to do what I can for the future. It was very loud...and took awhile before I was able to hear "normally" again. And I do hear pretty well, now, but do have a bit of tinnitus.
Kevin5098
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If you can handle the sound of a 22LR (with proper protection), my suggestion would be to find a 22LR handgun that is as close as possible to the size and weight of a SD caliber pilstol (9mm, 380, 38spl, etc). Train with the 22 and carry the larger caliber. Your life (or the life of a loved one) is more important than your hearing. An alternative might be to train with an airgun clone of the SD handgun of your choosing. Some of these are nearly identical to the actual firearm. Neither solution is ideal, but better than not training or carrying a caliber that you are not comfortable with.
If it's not hurting, then what's accumulating?
I always use ear plugs and ear muffs. No reason not to. Fwiw 22 pistols are very loud. Always double up. 22lr rifles not so much. Quietest handgun I have shot is a cap and ball revolver.
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Orion8472
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If I were to shoot my AR without that forward blast on it, I would consider that to be "painful". Too loud. I could be misunderstanding what you mean by "hurt my ears".
But mostly, because I had that moment of unprotected 9mm blast, I feel it prudent to be extra cautious.
But mostly, because I had that moment of unprotected 9mm blast, I feel it prudent to be extra cautious.
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When you shoot 9mm, with plugs and muffs, does it go "BANG!" Or does it go "BANG! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee."
If it goes "BANG!", but it's "louder than you'd like", my advice is "get over it."
If it goes "BANG! eeeeeeee" then my advice is to follow the rest of the advice in this thread.
If it goes "BANG!", but it's "louder than you'd like", my advice is "get over it."
If it goes "BANG! eeeeeeee" then my advice is to follow the rest of the advice in this thread.
WestKentucky
Member
There are only 2 calibers I can think of that I would trust that are quieter than most of the others. Luckily they are plentiful, and not generally pricey. Look for a 32 long revolver, or a 38sw revolver. 38sw not spl.
The 38… Loading up some of the old school Brit rounds, I have had a lot of fun and they seem considerably quieter. The faster the powder, the better too. So a 38sw 200gr round nose scooting along at a leisurely 750ft/sec is certainly enough to get one’s attention but neither bark nor bite are all that significant to the shooter. A 3” gun is considerably better than a 2” gun. A full 4” victory revolver shooting what it was made for in 38-200 chambered guns is just a flat out enjoyable experience, and the shorter barreled victories aren’t bad either. I wish I could vouch for a SW terrier, but I haven’t had the pleasure of test driving one of those just yet. There are plenty of 6 and 7 shot 38sw guns around for a song.
The 32… I love mine, and carry it often. 32 long is a weakling compared to most more modern rounds. It was however a very effective police round for several decades. 6 shot J frames and copies thereof are plentiful. They can be loaded with 100gr wadcutters to nearly any velocity you can imagine provided your magic number is only 3 digits. The guns are unbelievably fun to shoot. Adequate penetration, but forget about expansion. Maybe a bit of expansion on a gaping mouthed hollow point lead bullet. Maybe. I can vouch for its effectiveness and penetration on a raccoon as that’s the biggest game I have ever poked a hole in with my 3” 30-1. K framed guns exist, but come with a mortgage these days. Silly money for the guns. The sweet spot for these (my opinion is worth what you paid for it) is either in the S&W 30 and 31 models, or in Colt PP guns depending upon which way you prefer to open the gun, and which way you want your cylinder to turn. More realistically it’s in which grip feels the best to you. Personally, I got a 30-1 because I stumbled across a screaming deal on a 3” which is what I wanted. I would have been just as happy with a PP.
The 38… Loading up some of the old school Brit rounds, I have had a lot of fun and they seem considerably quieter. The faster the powder, the better too. So a 38sw 200gr round nose scooting along at a leisurely 750ft/sec is certainly enough to get one’s attention but neither bark nor bite are all that significant to the shooter. A 3” gun is considerably better than a 2” gun. A full 4” victory revolver shooting what it was made for in 38-200 chambered guns is just a flat out enjoyable experience, and the shorter barreled victories aren’t bad either. I wish I could vouch for a SW terrier, but I haven’t had the pleasure of test driving one of those just yet. There are plenty of 6 and 7 shot 38sw guns around for a song.
The 32… I love mine, and carry it often. 32 long is a weakling compared to most more modern rounds. It was however a very effective police round for several decades. 6 shot J frames and copies thereof are plentiful. They can be loaded with 100gr wadcutters to nearly any velocity you can imagine provided your magic number is only 3 digits. The guns are unbelievably fun to shoot. Adequate penetration, but forget about expansion. Maybe a bit of expansion on a gaping mouthed hollow point lead bullet. Maybe. I can vouch for its effectiveness and penetration on a raccoon as that’s the biggest game I have ever poked a hole in with my 3” 30-1. K framed guns exist, but come with a mortgage these days. Silly money for the guns. The sweet spot for these (my opinion is worth what you paid for it) is either in the S&W 30 and 31 models, or in Colt PP guns depending upon which way you prefer to open the gun, and which way you want your cylinder to turn. More realistically it’s in which grip feels the best to you. Personally, I got a 30-1 because I stumbled across a screaming deal on a 3” which is what I wanted. I would have been just as happy with a PP.
Then it sounds like there's no damage being done that would accumulate. Your problem isn't with pain or ear damage, it's with being uncomfortable with the stimulus of a loud noise.
Going to the range and getting used to the loud noise will solve your problem. Once you are used to it, then you can comfortably carry a caliber you trust more than the one you have right now.
If there was damage done, then the cumulative effect would be worth considering. But 0 + 0 + 0 + 0...you get the point. It equals 0.
nofendertom
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The way I see it:
0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 40.
0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 40.
I never seemed to notice, until later when things quieted down and my ears were screeching and everybody talking to me sounded like they'd been huffing helium.
commygun
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The 38 S&W is a good suggestion. It’s absurdly quiet even with just the basic yellow plugs. So quiet that when I recently shot a Webley again after several years I thought the first round was a squib. It wasn’t.
I think the observation about experiencing recoil as noise is a good one, too. True of all kinds of abrupt sensory experiences.
I think the observation about experiencing recoil as noise is a good one, too. True of all kinds of abrupt sensory experiences.
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Orion8472
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Where I live, it is not easy to find 38 S&W. And I have heard people say that you shouldn't use it in a 38 Special gun.
On a related side note,....I once had an open top revolver and it was much louder than my 9mm pistol. That cylinder gap.
As for "recoil",...it isn't that. I have no problem with the recoil of a 9mm...or the AR.
On a related side note,....I once had an open top revolver and it was much louder than my 9mm pistol. That cylinder gap.
As for "recoil",...it isn't that. I have no problem with the recoil of a 9mm...or the AR.
That was unprotected ears. If you don't have the problem with hearing protection in, then you're not going to get cumulative damage from training with 9mm with hearing protection in. That's why we wear hearing protection.
And hopefully self-defense use isn't often enough to cause cumulative damage.
But you've been saying throughout the whole thread that it's "too loud" even with ears, and you're worried about cumulative damage. From everything you've said, I think that as long as you remember to wear your ears at the range, you'll be fine with 9mm.
I worry about this as well and for this reason do not consider a rifle for home defense. In fact the only time I shoot a rifle anymore is to either sight the rifle in or for shooting deer and hogs.
.32 long or .38 S&W wadcutters out of a revolver would be my suggestion.
.32 long or .38 S&W wadcutters out of a revolver would be my suggestion.
I disagree.
Extended exposure to drills, saws, leaf-blowers, lawn mowers, loud music, hammering, or driving with open windows at highway speeds can cause permanent noise-induced haring loss.
