My Itemized List for a first AR Build.

Centurian22 · Mar 29, 2014

ugaarguy · Mar 29, 2014

I'd skip the A2 flash hider, and the YHM annihilator. The standard YHM Phantom line, and the SEI Vortex are both much better at reducing flash signature than an A2 flash comp. They also look more conventional than some of the flash hiders with more extreme aesthetics.

I like PMags quite a bit, but I like the Lancer L5 AWM mags even more: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/31...-remington-30-round-polymer-translucent-smoke.

LiquidTension · Mar 29, 2014

Are you a wrong handed shooter? Why the ambi charging handle? You can save some money getting the "demo" uppers from BCM when they have them. Mine looked new. I agree with ugaarguy, skip the A2. The BCM comp is my preferred muzzle device with the Battlecomp coming in second. Don't forget sling mounts and a sling.

Window Pmags are the heat. They let you see if you have enough ammo left to complete a drill. Obviously this only works when it's light enough to see, but it's very helpful so you don't end up with a bunch of half-empty mags in your dump pouch and no full ones on your PC/chest rig/whatever. You can kinda do the same thing with the Lancer mags, but the Magpuls have an orange line on the spring so you can still see how many rounds are left after the remaining rounds are obscured by the mag well.

The only issue I see is that you used "dream build" and "BLACKHAWK!" (can't forget the !) in the same post. PSA used to advertise complete lowers with Magpul furniture for the same price all the time. Catching one of those on sale would be a better choice IMO.

Centurian22 · Mar 29, 2014

My initial purpose of this gun will be range use / home defense. As a home defense tool I've determined that a flash hider will be more beneficial than a brake / comp with the added noise / flash. I want to try a brake/comp in the future but not till I've had some trigger time. The only thing I have against the vortex style is that annoying tuning fork "PING!!!" with every shot. Is the A2, an insufficient flash hider? My desire towards the Annihilator is its possible use as a less than lethal, CQB, "get off me" tool. Short of attaching a bayonet I cant see having a more effective striking device, and I won't lie I love the unconventional looks of both the YHM's I linked above. I will definitely look into all the muzzle devices mentioned. Interesting mags, have you found them to be more reliable? Whats do you like so much more about them?

As to the ambi, no I am right hand right eye dom, I just really like options. My EDC gun has fully ambi controls. I can see where it could come in handy to be able to charge / cycle with either hand easily. At only $25 extra it seems worth it.

The completed lowers with Magpul furniture are $199 ($50 more) and I prefer the looks / feel of the ergo grip a little more. If the price was the same as you indicate I would prob opt for the magpul version and upgrade the grip and stock as I wanted. I may still upgrade the grip and stock at some point but at least I'm starting at a lower cost point. I looked long and hard to try and come up with a build with any parts much less upgraded ones that I wanted that could come anywhere near the $150 price point and couldn't do it. Any idea what LPK PSA uses on their completed lowers? I've heard better things aboit their LPK than PTac.

I totally forgot about a sling and respective attachments. I need to do some research into two point vs three point and watch some you tube vids.

Thanks for the quick input.

9mmepiphany · Mar 29, 2014

Looks like a pretty good selection for a first build...much more ambitious then mine. I built the lower and mated it to a complete BCM upper (16" mid-length ELW barrel, 13" KMR;$729), BCG ($179), and Mod 3 charging handle ($25)

I added, to the lower, a ALQ ACT (came with the White Oak LPK; $109), BCM Mod 3 grip ($15) and Magpul CTR stock ($59) and trigger guard (plastic to match the grip;$9 and mags; $9)

As to the ambi, no I am right hand right eye dom, I just really like options. My EDC gun has fully ambi controls. I can see where it could come in handy to be able to charge / cycle with either hand easily. At only $25 extra it seems worth it.

You might also look at the Raptor ambi charging handle...it is really nice. If you really want to go ambi, look at a bolt release and safety selector also

I've heard better things aboit their LPK than PTac.

That does seem to be the general consenses

Centurian22 · Mar 29, 2014

You might also look at the Raptor ambi charging handle...it is really nice. If you really want to go ambi, look at a bolt release and safety selector also

The raptor looks cool but not enough to persuade me from the BCM yet. I have a Magpul BAD lever on the upgrade / add later list for bolt release. I want an ambi mag release and safety selector (I think), just need to do alot more research on them and that would be a while down the road after getting some trigger time on the systems anyways.

Very nice looking build. How do you like the KMR Rail? I'm hoping keymod catches on soon seems like a great idea.

Thanks!

9mmepiphany · Mar 29, 2014

I like it a lot...more than I expected and I had high expectations.

Not only is it easier to hold 1.5" wide, but the magnesium/aluminum ally makes it really light (5.5oz). I'm thinking about trying a lighter stock on it too

I had the hand stop on it in the picture just to see how things attached; I've since moved it to 9 o'clock to fit in the web of my hand. I can't see mounting anything other than a light and BUIS, so I couldn't see having rails all up-n-down the handguard

hacksaw · Mar 29, 2014

Yes, to answer one of your questions, the Aero Precision lower is as good as a BCM lower, am building on 2 of them right now..using mostly PSA components/uppers...

Coltdriver · Mar 29, 2014

What about a stock and a grip? I really like the Magpul offerings.

Tirod · Mar 29, 2014

I see lots of barrels available cheaper - even stainless fluted for $209. Another $100 won't make it shoot 33% more accurately, so the higher priced one isn't necessarily better.

The Keymod free float is - to me - a nice marketing gimmick. All it does is delete the heavy, aggressive quad rails and substitute less for more money. A SSI or ALG Defense free float would be nearly as light and cost another $100 less. And, you still have just as much opportunity to overload them with accessories.

The GI spec charging handle is ambidextrous. It's been used for 45 years without any major changes, in combat, and soldiers have no problems with it. Another $50 saved.

A muzzle device that controls sound by throwing it forward away from the shooters ears is on the market. Not all brakes or flash hiders do the same thing acoustically, and having a bit less recoil on a rifle meant to have half the recoil of a main battle .30 cal rifle is just adding rosettes to the icing. Better some kind of muzzle device that is actually tested to reduce noise at the shooters ears, which in an indoor environment won't be possible anyway. For hunting with no ear plugs, the way millions of us do, it helps. I'd suggest the Black River Tactical muzzle device. It's not a suppressor, it just throws the noise forward, and that works for me.

Standard trigger guard - wait until you actually see it's a problem for you. It isn't for many. More money saved until proven guilty.

MBUS sights - delete. Put all the money saved toward a red dot, there is about $400 on the table now, which means an Aimpoint Pro is an option.

Sling - don't. It's an MP oriented device to secure the weapon on the street while detaining a suspect. It has a downside, them grabbing the weapon drags you toward the assailant. In the field it attracts snags, in the home it will catch on things. It also allows you carry the rifle less ready when hunting, not in your hands as you bust out game from nearly underfoot walking to the stand. If you are close to something to steady you, it's better than what little a sling would offer.

I would add some kind of adjustable trigger slack screw to the stock GI parts, it takes out most of the creep, and that can eliminate up to 85% of the grittiness, too. It's what the high dollar triggers do, and light springs aren't advised.

Food for thought.

TIMC · Mar 29, 2014

I put a Midwest industries Gen II SS hand guard on my latest build, I am liking it a lot. You might want to check them out if you want a great looking, very slim, light weight hand guard.
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=450

This is the rifle I put it on:

powder · Mar 29, 2014

More time and money than I have: Colt 6920MP and a couple cases of ammo, puts me into your ballpark just for a parts pile, before you start the build? I'd reassess...

Centurian22 · Mar 29, 2014

Hacksaw: I was asking about the Aero Upper not lower though I would imagine the answer holds the same for both.

Coltdriver: the Grip and stock come on the completed lower, at that price point ($150), I'm going to try them out and see how they are then upgrade later after some trigger time on the gun.

TIMC: That does look like a great handguard especially for the price. I probably will do some more looking around at this type of Handguard in other offerings. One thing discussed in one of the BCM KMR review videos talked about the way it clamped on being different with the cross bolts at the top instead of the bottom and how that affects the flex and stressed of the rail / barrel nut. I don't remember if it was in this one:
http://youtu.be/sd3NMsimQ5o

Or this one:
http://youtu.be/-AjlvIsCFp0

It makes sense to me, along with being almost half the weight of other similar rails has my interest, and I'm not one of those who usually obsessed over saving an ounce here or and ounce there.

Powder: the colt 6920's while looking like great rifles just don't meet many of the things I'm looking for (that I know of in this price range): mid length gas system, low pro gas block, free float handguard, hammer forged barrel etc. Also, if I'm buying all at one time I've been told my the cheif executive officer of the household (my wife) that I'll be waiting a looooong time before being approved. Where as with the build method I could start much sooner.

Tirod: thanks for all of your input. I have also seen some SS barrels that are cheaper as you point out, I'm just not much of a fan of fluting, also I do believe that the cold hammer forging process makes a more accurate (less tooling marks), more durable/longer lasting barrel. If you could show me a 16" 1:7 or 1:8 twist mid length gas hammer forged barrel for less than $309 I'd be very interested.

As to the handguard, I couldn't find the SSI you mentioned but I do like the ALG, as mentioned above since I have plenty of time I will be doing more looking around at rails but the insanely low weight (5.5oz without the mounting equipment) of the 13" KMR rail does have my attention at the moment. Time will also tell if the keymod thing catches on or is just a passing Fad.

The standard charging handle is not ambi, people can be trained to operate it with both hands which is fine. But it does have problems, stressed on the roll pin. Would I likely ever have a problem with this no, is it nice to have full ambi and a structurally improved design probably. As said this is mostly my 'dream big within reason' build. It is good to know that if I want/need to save $25-$50 on the cost that it likely wouldn't be missed here.

The black river tactical muzzle devise looks interesting. Do you have one already? I'm curious how this 'new to the market' offering can meet all the claims in one device thats as of yet remained unaccomplished. I'm also skeptical of them as a company due to conflicting info in their product descriptions and computer generated images of their products (edit: this appears to only be an issue on the mobile page). Still their claims defy physics, you can't direct blast forward but still reduce felt recoil (equal and opposite reactions and all that). I'll definitly keep my eye on it and search to see if there are any review / test videos that support the claims.

Trigger guard: I live in Maine and shoot with gloves, its only $9-$19, and I like the look.

Sights: Separate from the build cost I do plan to run optics, not sure what kind and will determine that after some time operating the gun. I will never be without back up irons on this system though Especially with any primary aiming device that relies on a battery.

Sling, I can see where it would get tangled but having hunted with a gun with no sling I know all too well how nice it would have been to have my hands free. This will likely also be added later.

I definitely want to look into trigger upgrades just haven't had the chance yet. Do you have any recomendations / links to the part you talk about?

Again thank you to all who have contributed. I really appreciate the input since I'm totally new to all this.

TIMC · Mar 29, 2014

TIMC: That does look like a great handguard especially for the price. I probably will do some more looking around at this type of Handguard in other offerings. One thing discussed in one of the BCM KMR review videos talked about the way it clamped on being different with the cross bolts at the top instead of the bottom and how that affects the flex and stressed of the rail / barrel nut. I don't remember if it was in this one:
http://youtu.be/sd3NMsimQ5o

Interesting but expensive, I am shooting sub-moa with this hand guard on my .300 Blackout at 100 yards so it is a viable option.

For triggers, these are about the best out there.
http://geissele.com/triggers.html

VVelox · Mar 29, 2014

In regards to the uppers, the Aero one is stripped, which is why it is half the price. Although you can get a assembled MAS upper for 20 USD less. If you don't care about T marks, then for 30 USD less.

As far as gas tubes go, as long as it is the right length, don't worry about it, but 16 USD is average though so it is cool.

A lot of people will try to talk you out of the A2 flash hider... don't let them, it is one of the best. http://vuurwapenblog.com/2013/10/03/ar15-muzzle-brakeflash-hidercompensator-comparison-part-1/

In regards to handguards, you may wish to look into the Magpull MOE. They are cheap and go nicely with a folding front sight gas block, which is available from YHM for ~90... the same price as a low profile gas block and MBUS front sight.

Blade First · Mar 29, 2014

"Or is an Aero stripped upper just as good at half the price?"

Yes, absolutely.

Centurian22 · Mar 29, 2014

VVelox, I have found the dust cover assembly and forward assist assembly for $20 total with the $60 Aero Upper would put me at $80 which is still $39 under the assembled BCM upper (unless I'm forgetting anything else).

On the gas tube after looking at some pictures I found I really like the black gas tube look and as you said $16 isn't bad.

Thank you very much for the link on the muzzle device testing. I love science and I can't wait to read through that entire article and learn all it has to offer.

I'm really set on some for of free float handguard. I like the looks, the feel, the shooting just everything about them. Magpul needs to try their hand at a free float tube I would be interested to see what they do.

Blade First and others that say the Aero is just ask good as a BCM upper: BCM talks about "Inside Diameter for barrel extension slightly undersized for a tighter fit to the barrel and a more accurate rifle" and "Dry Film Lube on interior bore per Mil-Specs" which I don't see other places or by other manufacturers; is it just 'smoke and mirrors' sales pitching? Also BCM says they are made in the USA but Aero does not, though they appear to be a US company so I would imagine their receivers would be made here. Can anyone who has seen both comment on the M4 feed ramp cuts of each? I had thought it to be best to match a BCM upper with the BCM barrel (even though I know many do not and it is unlikely to make a difference) but it seems like many are indicating there is no problems with Aero and $39 is $39 that can go elsewhere in the gun or towards feeding it.

ugaarguy · Mar 29, 2014

Aero receivers are US made, and they finish the forgings for many other companies.

"Inside Diameter for barrel extension slightly undersized for a tighter fit to the barrel and a more accurate rifle"

That sounds like a marketing gimmick.

"Dry Film Lube on interior bore per Mil-Specs"

I've never heard of that, but then again I don't access to the TDP, and that may be in there. In reality, it's not going to matter on an anodized receiver holding a phosphated bbl, but you could coat the inside of the Aero upper with your choice of firearms dry film lube if you are worried about it.

Milamber · Mar 29, 2014

I am just in the processes of finishing up my first build and ordering a bunch of parts for the second. First for what you want the rifle to do I wouldn't waste my money on a free float hand guard unless you want to. Don't do it for accuracy. Money would be better spent on good optics. Second go to ar15.com they have a sticky on the forgings. If memory serves me right there are four manufacturers of them. Most ARs are a kit of parts. Out of interest here is my rough build list for comparison.

PSA FN 14.7 CHF CL 1:7 twist barrel
BCM mod o flash hider brings me to 16.1" barrel. No SBR
PSA Stripped lower
DPMS LPK
ALG ACT Trigger
BCM MOD 0 grip
Magpul CTR stock
BCM receiver extention,spring and H2 buffer
Magpul MOE handgaurd
BCM stripped flat top upper
Spikes Tactical BCG
BCM charging handle medium
PSA UPK
A2 F marked gas block.
Plus a bunch of odds n ends and Aimpoint PRO with a Troy rear BUIS.

Could have bought a complete rifle like the Sig for less. My problem was I was adamant I wanted a 14.5" barrel and they cost more. And yes I know it really doesn't make that big a deal but hey it's my money. I also felt that by building from scratch in now can maintain it it with confidence and a good parts kit.

ugaarguy · Mar 29, 2014

Second go to ar15.com they have a sticky on the forgings. If memory serves me right there are four manufacturers of them. Most ARs are a kit of parts.

As we've discussed here, yes, there are only a few places that forge the receivers. However, a raw forging is far from a finished receiver. Heck, a raw forging isn't even close to an 80% receiver. Who machines the forging, and who anodizes the forging are far more important, and I've seen some garbage finished receivers.

Saying that most ARs are a kit is a bit misleading too. Who spec'd the parts, and to what spec is important. That company's experience dealing with out side vendors, and their QA / QC capabilities and consistency are even more important. Companies like Colt and FN have the M4 and M16 TDPs, and they regularly deal with sub contractors so they can meet American and allied military demand on weapons. Smith and Wesson has some of the largest small parts forging, finish machining, and heat treating facilities in the US. They forge and machine parts for other gun makers, and even for the automotive industry. Smith and Wesson bought Thompson / Center Arms largely for T/C's barrel making capabilities. When S&W wasn't satisfied with the parts they received from sub contractors for the early M&P-15 rifles they brought production in house.

As another example BCM seems to have better QA/QC than many other parts branders. BCM doesn't offer bargain parts either. That's how they manage their brand to maintain their status as a premium hard use AR parts house. Other places offer varying quality levels at varying prices.

So, parts aren't parts, and one is well advised to research what parts he or she is buying.

goon · Mar 30, 2014

I'd watch PSA and maybe wait to buy until they have a complete lower with Magpul's enhanced triggerguard already installed. You could add those things yourself, but watching for a sale on those may save you a little work. For that matter, you really don't need it unless you like the look. You can use it with gloves, but I qualified expert with an M-16 once wearing gloves with a stock trigger guard. It was cold and my squad leader didn't think it was possible, but the score spoke for itself. If you're wearing mittens, you can snap a regular triggerguard down with just the tip of a cartridge. I have nothing against enhanced triggerguards, but I also don't consider them essential. A standard pistol grip also works fine for me, but I prefer the Magpul CTR to a milspec buttstock. I like being able to take the wobble out. I may even go with a standard A2 fixed stock for my next AR.

If you can forego the BFH barrel in favor of a standard barrel, you can buy a midlength complete upper from BCM for $435. A hammer forged barrel is theoretically more durable, but you'd have to shoot a LOT of rounds to ever notice the difference. I also prefer a lightweight profile to something heavier. I see the AR carbine as a carbine. I'm not going to shoot two hundred rounds as fast as I can slam magazines into it, so a LW barrel works fine for me.

On the ALG trigger, I've used it and honestly, it's not that great. I'd think you could take a stock trigger and some really light stoning and end up with as good as the ALG. Nothing wrong with it per se - I installed it, pulled the trigger, the rifle went bang - but I was kind of underwhelmed with it. Next one I do will have a good trigger in it, even if it costs money.

I also like the Lancer L5AWM magazines, especially the translucent smoke ones. That's a personal preference - I just think they look cool as hell. Plus they have steel feed lips. PMags have a dust cover that also takes a little stress off the feed lips... but steel feed lips don't need stress taken off of them. Don't get me wrong - I've used Gen I, Gen II, and Gen III Pmags with and without windows and I've never had a malfunction with one. But the Lancers have steel and the Pmags don't. FWIW, I've also used milspec aluminum with antitilt followers and Mako's steel E-Lander AR magazines without one malfunction from any of them.

If you're not left handed, I'd just go with a BCM Gunfighter charging handle. After you've used one a little, you'll wonder why anyone would ever want to use a stock CH. If you subtract the cost of a stock charging handle, the BCM only costs about $30 more. Any AR I assemble henceforth will have a Gunfighter CH on it.

I will say though that a lot of what goes into an AR is preference. That's why there's so much variety. In the end, I'd say just handle some and maybe shoot a few if you can first to see what you think you'll like, then ignore everything we've just told you and buy what's going to work for you. I tend to like a fairly plain rifle - optic and maybe a light are about all I want, so I don't need a lot of rails. Others have different preferences. You should get what you like.

Centurian22 · Mar 31, 2014

Ok well here's an update. I'm pretty much sold on the Aero Upper, I've killed a severe chunk of my monthly cellular data plan today researching hand guards on seller sites, manufacturer sites and YouTube.

I'm looking for free floating, 13-15", light (for the given length), modularity = being able to place rails only where I want them but with the option for the 45's not just 12, 3, 6, and 9o'clock positions. I had looked at the Samson Evolution Keymod ($205) series here: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/28...mod-free-float-handguard-ar-15-aluminum-matte as a $65 less expensive alternative to the BCM KMR 13" ($270). It wasn't until I Happened to come across the manufacturers videos for the Samson Evolution Free Float hand guard (including new keymod versions) here: http://youtu.be/xKyIoy0csqo that I discovered they can mount things at 16 different positions around the "clock" of the handguard!!!

So here is my breakdown and pros/cons list of the top 4 choices:

Midwest Industries G2 SS 15" x 1.5"OD 10.9oz $190
Pro's: Least expensive, smallest OD, easy mounting of accessories (they just screw into the holes) comes with 3-2.5" rail sections one with QD sling point, claimed lifetime warrantee. Con's: mounting 'only' at 12, 3, 4:30, 6, 7:30, and 9, no option (without the use of offsets) for mounting on the 45 degrees off the top on either side, also fewer options in where to mount along the handguard. Requires the replacement of the barrel nut though given that this is a new build this would only affect future swaps / cleanings.

Samson MFG Evolution (and Keymod version) 15" x 1.8"OD 13.4oz $194 ($205 for Keymod version) Pro's for both versions: 16 MOUNTING POINTS! (I like versatility), second lowest price, 1.56"ID fits most suppresses (handy if I ever go that route), easiest mounting to rifle (uses existing barrel nut). Base model comes with 2-2" and 1-4" ($55 value) rail sections. Keymod version does Not come with any sections of rails but allows for keymod attachment at 3, 6, and 9, in addition to all other backer plate mounting positions, keymod attachment is easier than backer plates. Samson accessories fit both original evolution and keymod versions. Con's:Edit, I just noticed their Rail sections are not solid but have the middle cut away,

I have to imagine this weakens the design, backer plates are harder to deal with than directly screwing on like the MI or keymod, added cost of buying rail sections if I opt for the keymod version. I like having the versatility if keymod catches on, but don't know if its really worth the added cost/loss of 'free' rails.

BCM KMR 13" (couldn't find width but looks similar 1.5-2" range) 7.7oz $270
Pro's: Lightest by far, all 8 standard mounting positions all keymod, appears to include two rail sections, seemingly better stronger more secure mounting of handguard to supplied barrel nut by opposed locking bolts (best described here: http://youtu.be/-AjlvIsCFp0). Con's: highest price, no idea if Keymod will catch on (but at least there are rail sections available now), relatively new to market compared to the others, like the MI required replacement of the barrel nut but again not a big issue.

VVelox: thanks again for the link on the muzzle device study, finished it today. I believe I would be fine with the A2, the YHM Annihilator ($36) is supposed to match if not outperform the Phantom ($34) (as it is designed after the phantom) in flash suppression. The phantom was barely beat out by the AAC Blackout ($56) and only one other in performance. The Annihilator doesn't need to be indexed. Nice for swapping, may not be so nice shooting prone due to kicked up dust/debris, though I hardly ever shoot prone so... take that for what it's worth. I'm holding off on Brake / Comp research for now until more is available on the YHM slant brake, and because I won't be adding one until after the rifle build. Much more to work on before that.

So there's where I'm at as of going to bed tonight, sorry for the long winded post, I have a 'bad' habit of being too detailed and over analyzing things (could ya tell?).

Thanks again for any continued input.

jakk280rem · Mar 31, 2014

The only issue I see is all the upper parts you speced are available in a pre assembled unit that is in stock at the moment. When I build an upper it is to achieve some combination of parts not already available. Unless you already have the upper block, torque wrench and all the sauces to assemble it yourself, you aren't really saving anything. Your build is so good somebody else already thought of it.

Centurian22 · Mar 31, 2014

If finances allow I will be all for buying it pre-assembled. That will be unlikely though. Thank you for bringing it to my attention, I'll definitely go look it up to be aware of the price.

jakk280rem · Mar 31, 2014

$805 for the 16" midlength lw w/ 13" KMR.
$170 for the M16 BCG.
$45 for the gunfighter charging handle.

My Itemized List for a first AR Build.

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