My pocket gun search revisted
- Thread starter chaim
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Iconoclast
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I'm happy with my PF-9. It does have significant recoil, but it isn't as brutal as some would have you believe. Recoil tolerance is subjective.
KBintheSLC
Member
I can't really consider any of those guns to be a true pocket gun. I sometimes put my G26 in my front pocket at home since I don't care if it shows (which it does). Maybe the KelTec PF9 would work since it is so light and slim. Sounds like you already have a j-frame revolver... I have always thought of that as the perfect pocket gun.
T. Bracker
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I have carried a PM9 for a couple of years now. Very small and lightweight. For me, still not really a "pocket" gun unless it is going into a larger than normal pocket. Smaller guns like the P3AT are more true "pocket" guns for my use. I find the same thing for J-frames, just too bulky for the average pocket, but some cargo pants or dress slacks are OK. PM9 is great IWB or OWB, conceals easily and is light weight.
dal205
Member
I have a PF9 which I have carried for 11 months in my back pocket every day in an Elite Pocket holster I got on Ebay for $15. The only ammo that my PF9 shoots well is Federal Hydrashoks. It has trouble with everything else. WWB causes stovepipes, Fiocchi 3 point binds, etc. I have put approximately 400 rounds through the gun.
I have a Glock G36 on order that I intend to carry IWB in the same fashion as this guy.
http://journal.drfaulken.com/advent...awk-inside-the-waistband-clip-holster-review/
I hope my G36 is less picky about ammo. I have some doubts with the PF-9.
Even though I sewed up the end of my pocket holster, it's amazing how much lint accumulates inside the gun. I clean it once a month, at least.
The PF9 is accurate for me, for what I want it to do, which is hit within a 5" or so circle at 20-25' shooting quickly. I works well in that situation.
I have a Glock G36 on order that I intend to carry IWB in the same fashion as this guy.
http://journal.drfaulken.com/advent...awk-inside-the-waistband-clip-holster-review/
I hope my G36 is less picky about ammo. I have some doubts with the PF-9.
Even though I sewed up the end of my pocket holster, it's amazing how much lint accumulates inside the gun. I clean it once a month, at least.
The PF9 is accurate for me, for what I want it to do, which is hit within a 5" or so circle at 20-25' shooting quickly. I works well in that situation.
Umm. He should have stated, "difficult for HIM" The trigger pull of the LCP is very smooth and not heavy at all. Shooting rapid followup shots is much simpler with the LCp than any snubby I've shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ybql8mDbs
It's hard to see in the vid but most of my shots were in the black with very little effort. I can't speak for the other weapons but the LCP is much more capable than you would think. In fact I can shoot my LCP much faster and more accurately than in the video now.
Also, I consider most of the weapons the OP mentioned to be too big for pocket carry. They may fit in your pocket but you may not be able to draw it smoothly with your hand on the larger grip. The size of my hands limits pocket carry, for me, to a snubby or my preference the LCP.
I went thru the same process with mostly the same guns about 3 months ago.
I decided on the Kahr PM9. I found one used locally for a fair price.
I use a Crossbreed minituck IWB about 80% of the time and a Desantis nemesis pocket holster the rest of the time.
I am very please. The Kahr was the most expense gun of the ones I was looking at but that is all water under the bridge now and the extra hundred or so is forgotten now.
We also got a Ruger LCP. That is my wifes primary gun and I carry it on occasion depending on what I am wearing or doing. It is a nice gun but there is no doubt I feel better about the 9mm. She is petite and she did not think she could do the Kahr without alot of wardrobe changes. The LCP is small enought to fit just about anywhere.
I decided on the Kahr PM9. I found one used locally for a fair price.
I use a Crossbreed minituck IWB about 80% of the time and a Desantis nemesis pocket holster the rest of the time.
I am very please. The Kahr was the most expense gun of the ones I was looking at but that is all water under the bridge now and the extra hundred or so is forgotten now.
We also got a Ruger LCP. That is my wifes primary gun and I carry it on occasion depending on what I am wearing or doing. It is a nice gun but there is no doubt I feel better about the 9mm. She is petite and she did not think she could do the Kahr without alot of wardrobe changes. The LCP is small enought to fit just about anywhere.
chaim
Member
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you guys.
Well, there seems to be a theme among the replies. "Get a J-frame." Well, there is nothing wrong with revolvers, but there are also good pocket autos as well, and that is what I want right now. I'm not neglecting revolvers:
That photo includes my steel framed Taurus 85CH and my aluminum S&W 442 (my favorite "snubby" there is my S&W 65LS, a 3" K-frame .357). They get carried a lot when I'm in a carry state (the steel framed 85CH is usually IWB and the 442 is usually pocket carried, though in the right pants the weight of the 85CH isn't a problem pocket carried). I've also had plenty of experience with other revolvers not in the photo- in the past year or two I've been thinning my gun collection a little and I've sold a 4" S&W 19 and a 6" 585, and over the years I've also had a Colt PPS, Taurus 82 and a Taurus 605 (another snub, though I didn't like shooting .357mag out of a J-framed sized revolver). (Oh, I'm not quite sure why I included the pipes in the photo- they were nearby and I thought they looked good with my revolvers
).
Another theme from many is that the guns I'm looking at are too big. I know that a PF9, P11 or PM9 are bigger than the NAA Guardian I'll be replacing. I also know that plenty of people on these boards post that these guns are their EDC pocket guns in most (if not all) styles of dress. Based on a comparison of stats with my Taurus PT140 M. Pro I'd guess the other options would be similar, though maybe (hopefully) a tad better in a pocket than the Taurus.
I have found that, when carrying, my pocket gun is really the one I treat as my go to gun and the IWB (when I have one) is my backup. When I'm out and I feel there may be a threat nearby my hand naturally goes into my pocket, sometimes even gripping the gun, which would allow a quick draw from the pocket if needed (try putting your hand on your CCW when you think there may be a threat, but before it has shown itself as a threat, in order to be prepared without drawing attention to yourself and/or accidentally showing the gun). So, should something happen, and I have some warning (or get a little nervous about a situation), my pocket gun would come out first. The IWB (which doesn't always come, there have been times it is only my 442) is more for if I'm surprised (it would be a faster draw than from a pocket) or as a "NY reload". Also, I often carry at home, but MD is not a carry state so it has to be easy to remove my gun, or to rearm, as I come and go, and it is far easier to drop the pocket holster and gun in my pocket or remove it, so it also is my go to gun at home (until I get to a nearby .45, shotgun, or carbine). Thus, I'm no longer very confident with .32ACP as the caliber for my pocket auto, and I don't think I'd feel much better with .380.
So, for more options (other than my snubs) I want an auto that is more concealable in my pocket than my Taurus PT140 M. Pro (which is at best, okay, and doesn't work in dress slacks very well), but is in a much more capable caliber such as 9mm or .40. If I do find down the road that I sometimes need something even smaller, then I'll pick up a Ruger LCP, Taurus 738 (if available in MD by then), Kel-tec 3AT, or possibly an NAA Guardian in .380 (I like my Guardian other than the .32ACP caliber, but I think the NAA in .380 may be a bit heavy for the size).
Well, there seems to be a theme among the replies. "Get a J-frame." Well, there is nothing wrong with revolvers, but there are also good pocket autos as well, and that is what I want right now. I'm not neglecting revolvers:
That photo includes my steel framed Taurus 85CH and my aluminum S&W 442 (my favorite "snubby" there is my S&W 65LS, a 3" K-frame .357). They get carried a lot when I'm in a carry state (the steel framed 85CH is usually IWB and the 442 is usually pocket carried, though in the right pants the weight of the 85CH isn't a problem pocket carried). I've also had plenty of experience with other revolvers not in the photo- in the past year or two I've been thinning my gun collection a little and I've sold a 4" S&W 19 and a 6" 585, and over the years I've also had a Colt PPS, Taurus 82 and a Taurus 605 (another snub, though I didn't like shooting .357mag out of a J-framed sized revolver). (Oh, I'm not quite sure why I included the pipes in the photo- they were nearby and I thought they looked good with my revolvers
).Another theme from many is that the guns I'm looking at are too big. I know that a PF9, P11 or PM9 are bigger than the NAA Guardian I'll be replacing. I also know that plenty of people on these boards post that these guns are their EDC pocket guns in most (if not all) styles of dress. Based on a comparison of stats with my Taurus PT140 M. Pro I'd guess the other options would be similar, though maybe (hopefully) a tad better in a pocket than the Taurus.
I have found that, when carrying, my pocket gun is really the one I treat as my go to gun and the IWB (when I have one) is my backup. When I'm out and I feel there may be a threat nearby my hand naturally goes into my pocket, sometimes even gripping the gun, which would allow a quick draw from the pocket if needed (try putting your hand on your CCW when you think there may be a threat, but before it has shown itself as a threat, in order to be prepared without drawing attention to yourself and/or accidentally showing the gun). So, should something happen, and I have some warning (or get a little nervous about a situation), my pocket gun would come out first. The IWB (which doesn't always come, there have been times it is only my 442) is more for if I'm surprised (it would be a faster draw than from a pocket) or as a "NY reload". Also, I often carry at home, but MD is not a carry state so it has to be easy to remove my gun, or to rearm, as I come and go, and it is far easier to drop the pocket holster and gun in my pocket or remove it, so it also is my go to gun at home (until I get to a nearby .45, shotgun, or carbine). Thus, I'm no longer very confident with .32ACP as the caliber for my pocket auto, and I don't think I'd feel much better with .380.
So, for more options (other than my snubs) I want an auto that is more concealable in my pocket than my Taurus PT140 M. Pro (which is at best, okay, and doesn't work in dress slacks very well), but is in a much more capable caliber such as 9mm or .40. If I do find down the road that I sometimes need something even smaller, then I'll pick up a Ruger LCP, Taurus 738 (if available in MD by then), Kel-tec 3AT, or possibly an NAA Guardian in .380 (I like my Guardian other than the .32ACP caliber, but I think the NAA in .380 may be a bit heavy for the size).
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chaim
Member
Oh, on a quick scan the PM9 seems the first choice on here with the PF9 a close second. Since I want pocket carry I can see why the Glock is trailing, it is actually a tad larger than my PT140 in most measurements, though it is smaller in height and lighter. The PPS is actually a little bigger than the Glock in many measurements, but it is significantly narrower and width seems to be the biggest deal when pocket carrying an auto (at least for me- other than the width, and maybe the height, my PT140 would work). Though a definite drawback for the PPS and pocket carry would be the weight (at almost 21oz. the clothing in which I could pocket carry would be somewhat limited, like with my Taurus 85CH).
I definitely get the PM9 being so highly recommended. My best friend has one so I do have some firsthand experience. These are great guns. They are also quite small for 9mm while still being controllable and fairly comfortable to shoot. However, I'm really not sure I want to spend that much right now (esp. since I'm starting to miss my .40S&W SIG 229 I sold and I'm thinking about adding a mid-sized .40 soon as well).
I'm starting to lean in the Kel-tec direction. It would save cash since I could probably get it and some cash back after trading my NAA Guardian and Bersa Thunder .380 (or just give the Bersa and a little cash and keep the Guardian in case I could occasionally use a smaller gun).
My question is why does the PF9 seem to be so overwhelmingly recommended here over the P11? The P11 is actually smaller in most measurements, while the PF9 is thinner and lighter at .88" and 12.7oz (which is key for pocket carry), the P11 is still quite decent in both departments at 1" and 14oz (for comparison my 442 is 15oz unloaded), and the P11's magazine holds 10 rounds, 3 more than the PF9's 7, and it can use 15round S&W mags. So, does the slight width and weight difference really make that much difference? Is it the trigger? From dry firing I know I'd much prefer the PF9's trigger over the P11, but neither is great and both are serviceable.
I definitely get the PM9 being so highly recommended. My best friend has one so I do have some firsthand experience. These are great guns. They are also quite small for 9mm while still being controllable and fairly comfortable to shoot. However, I'm really not sure I want to spend that much right now (esp. since I'm starting to miss my .40S&W SIG 229 I sold and I'm thinking about adding a mid-sized .40 soon as well).
I'm starting to lean in the Kel-tec direction. It would save cash since I could probably get it and some cash back after trading my NAA Guardian and Bersa Thunder .380 (or just give the Bersa and a little cash and keep the Guardian in case I could occasionally use a smaller gun).
My question is why does the PF9 seem to be so overwhelmingly recommended here over the P11? The P11 is actually smaller in most measurements, while the PF9 is thinner and lighter at .88" and 12.7oz (which is key for pocket carry), the P11 is still quite decent in both departments at 1" and 14oz (for comparison my 442 is 15oz unloaded), and the P11's magazine holds 10 rounds, 3 more than the PF9's 7, and it can use 15round S&W mags. So, does the slight width and weight difference really make that much difference? Is it the trigger? From dry firing I know I'd much prefer the PF9's trigger over the P11, but neither is great and both are serviceable.
+1. In my eyes, none of those are really pocket guns. Everyone starts with good intentions, but carrying a Glock 26 in the front pocket of a pair of jeans will change your mind. I know, I've tried. The only pocket gun in 9mm or larger is the Rorbaugh. That's it. And I wouldn't even buy one of those either for other reasons. All that other stuff..sure, it's small. In fact some are really super small for a 9mm, but none of them are true pocket guns. I've bought and traded so many guns that I wanted to be pockets guns but really weren't. If you're a big giant guy who wears size 52 jeans, you could get away with it. But if you're a regular size guy who wears jeans that look like they actually might fit, you just can't put a baby Glock in them and be comfortable and look normal. It just doesn't happen for most people. It's gonna be a .380 or Rorbaugh or nothing IMO. I've settled on a LCP now after trying a bunch of them.
If Omar the tent maker makes your custom made pants for you, then you can get away with something bigger. Me, I'll take a gun on a belt holster any day. For my pants pocket, it's gotta be a .380 until someone comes though with some revolutionary new actual pocket pistol.
dal205
Member
I choose the PF9 over the P11 because I liked the PF9 trigger a lot more than the P11's, and I liked how much thinner the PF9 was. I also like having the tactical rail, though I haven't put any accessories on it yet.
Like I said, I carry my PF9 in my cargo pants back pocket. I use a cheap nylon holster that doesn't have an anti-print panel. To fix that, I cut a mouse pad down and clipped it to the nylon holster. Not only does it not print now, but there's a little extra cushion if I lean up against a counter or desk. The whole rig fits well and I can go all day without noticing it.
I think the prevailing wisdom is generally to get the snubby but over the years I've just ruled them out as having any use to me. Its not really any smaller than my M&P or a Glock 26/27 so why wouldn't you carry that? They are MUCH more capable weapons in my book. If I need a weapon smaller than my M&P 9C I carry my LCP. Honestly I shoot my LCP a LOT better than I ever shot a snubby. Its more accurate in quick fire, I can reload it much quicker, and spare ammo is easier to carry. I carry my LCP in my strong hand pocket in a kydex pocket holster. In my weak hand pocket I carry two spare mags in a home made holster, a flashlight, a knife clipped to my pocket, and I still have room for my car keys. You can't do that with a snubby. The LCP also is MUCH lighter and carries much easier with less weight and bulge in the pocket. You can get a scandium or ally framed snubby that is as light as an LCP but I'll give you my LCP if you don't shoot it a LOT better than one of them. I had a scandium framed S&W that was the most miserable thing to shoot that I ever owned.
I completely agree with you Jon. We probably carry the same sort of pistols around in the same manner on a daily basis. What type of kydex pocket holster are you using for your LCP? I'm using a Nemesis now but I've been making my own kydex stuff lately. I haven't thought to make a pocket holster yet. I've sort of resorted to using kydex just for mag carriers lately. I'm curious to see how the pocket holsters work.
NMGonzo
Member
snubbies are smaller than bersas ... but reallly ... not enough time ?
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