My UPS guy and OPSEC after several large ammo purchases

[Good&Fruity]

You guys are way too paranoid.

I don't hide the fact that I own guns, I'm quite proud of it.

If I have to hide and become a social pariah, lurking in the shadows like a pedophile to enjoy a right it really isn't much of a right.

I really wouldn't give it a second thought, but I've had random people from Comcast, to the mailman in my flat looking at my guns.

Then why not put an advertisement in the paper with what guns you have, and your address, as well as when you are not home? Try it, and report back how it goes.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

Educate yourself, all it takes is paying attention to the news. Here's a 2 second google search with tons of stories of UPS drivers stealing packages. I hear about it here all the time. Along with USPS, FedEX, etc.

whenever you add a human element to anything, you'll find dishonesty. unless you're able to have your packages transported to you like star trek, you'll have to make do. that's one of the reasons they offer insurance

 

[Good&Fruity]

whenever you add a human element to anything, you'll find dishonesty. unless you're able to have your packages transported to you like star trek, you'll have to make do. that's one of the reasons they offer insurance

I wear a seat belt when I drive my car, a car that is insured, doesn't mean I want to get into a wreck. In the same way, just because I have home owners insurance doesn't mean I want to get robbed. If I can prevent it I will. I merely wanted to see if my concerns were warranted, and what mitigating steps I could take.

 

[orionengnr]

Since retiring I got a dream job at a gun store. I send out the internet ammo orders via UPS.Fact, 99.99% of all drivers are super honest nice guys, who could care less what you bought. The but is we have had problems with theft.

Questionable "fact"...if less than one in ten thousand UPS employees were dishonest, we would not be forced into using "Next Day" shipping from both UPS and FedEx.

Sorry, sounds like partisan BS to me.

Fact is, UPS and FedEx have plenty of dishonest employees (and plenty of examples thereof), they are not nearly dilligent enough about rooting them out, and you and I pay for those shortcomings.

 

[au01st]

Not such a bad idea. I might offer him a soda next time, espcially since it's summer and he's sweating all day.

Having worked a summer job where I was outside from 6am-4pm, I'd bet he would appreciate an ice cold water or sports drink over a coke. I really think that's the best way to go, though, just show some gratitude; a little goes a long way.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

I wear a seat belt when I drive my car, a car that is insured, doesn't mean I want to get into a wreck. In the same way, just because I have home owners insurance doesn't mean I want to get robbed. If I can prevent it I will. I merely wanted to see if my concerns were warranted, and what mitigating steps I could take.

what's your point? if never want anything bad to happen, you'll never leave the house, drive, or order ammo online.

 

[Nushif]

I'll be honest. I am kinda giggling at the use of OPSEC here.

And I do agree with the folks saying there's much ado about nothing.

So you started mistrusting some random guy doing his job, right? What can you do do? Frankly within the realms of civilized interaction not much. Harden your house I guess.

But at a certain point I have to ask you something. Who are you to doubt the UPS guy? How would you feel if you were a UPS guy and this one customer you deliver to sometimes gives you "the eye" and asks for your ID. Worse. He calls your supervisor to confirm that you are who are ... Each ... Single ... Last ... Time. At which point can we consider the customer at fault for really being pretty suspicious?

I know we keep saying "don't advertise" but a good part of that is also not being the guy who triple checks the ID of everyone at their door. Or the guy who doesnt answer his door with ten deadbolts dangling in the gruff "WHATCHU WANT?!" tone.

Sometimes acting naturally can be the better defense than ten deadbolts, answering your door with obvious suspicion and triple checking IDs. Remember. You're not the one doing a crime, why are you acting the part?

Frankly I'm much more wary of the constantly suspicious guy who looks behind him wherever he goes and looks genuinely scared, than the average non-chalant guy walking down the street.

And at a certain point I have to question why we for some reason assume everyone is out to get us?! FFS! He's just the UPS guy. Even if he's a crook, are we going to start treating all delivery people like potential crooks now? I could liken that to some other cause near and dear to our hearts.

 

[mortablunt]

I don't think it looks too much like a problem. I could very well be ignorant, but I'm trusting that the guy isn't going to steal or call in any theives.

 

[SMITHWESS]

My guy just gives me dirty looks for making him schlupp 60lb boxes up to my stoop

 

[medalguy]

You know, there are a thousand ways for the bad guys to find out who has guns and ammo. Sit outside a gun shop. Watch the local range. Stroll thru Wally World. Or maybe have a buddy at the local delivery company pick up addresses. There's just no way you can protect yourself 100% of the time. If you spend all day worrying about maybe who's watching you, it'll drive you nutty pretty quickly.

And really, do you have any idea how many firearms related packages a typical driver delivers in a day? My son works for one of these companies and he's always telling me about the really REALLY heavy packages they scan coming from the various dealers I buy from, and HE buys from. He has even picked up a couple of sources for components by seeing the Hazmat labels as they come down the line.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the whole thing. Most drivers are honest, there's always that one bad one but you can't ever tell. And I agree about giving your driver a nice remembrance at Christmas time. That includes the postal carrier bringing all those nice flat rate boxes to your door. Believe me, it does help.

 

[Good&Fruity]

what's your point? if never want anything bad to happen, you'll never leave the house, drive, or order ammo online.

What was your point? That I have insurance and not to worry about it? My point is that just because I have insurance doesn't mean I want to have something bad to happen. Don't turn this into a straw man argument with statements about never leaving the house if I don't want anything to happen. Such statements are logical fallacies aimed at discrediting a valid point by going to extremes. If one can avoid something bad happening through mitigating steps, then why not.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

my point is, insurance is meant to cover things like loss of UPS packages. if you're that concerned about it, don't mail order ammo.

 

[Good&Fruity]

And really, do you have any idea how many firearms related packages a typical driver delivers in a day? My son works for one of these companies and he's always telling me about the really REALLY heavy packages they scan coming from the various dealers I buy from, and HE buys from. He has even picked up a couple of sources for components by seeing the Hazmat labels as they come down the line.

This is interesting. Good post.

 

[Good&Fruity]

my point is, insurance is meant to cover things like loss of UPS packages. if you're that concerned about it, don't mail order ammo.

I've repeatedly said I was worried about getting robbed because he knows I buy a lot of ammo and likely have a bunch of stuff on hand, not a lost UPS package. :banghead:

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

then, as i just said, and others on this thread have also said: stop ordering ammo if you're worried about it. you won't find the consolation you're looking for on an internet forum.

 

[natman]

Over the last few months I've ordered...more than a few cases of ammo. Today, he had a strange look on his face. He seems like a guy in his own world, with one of those handlebar moustaches, but I can't help but wonder if he is the weak link in my opsec. I hope he doesn't rob me or tell his friends that I have a ton of ammo, and likely a bunch of guns to go with it.

Yes you should be worried!!!

Gentlemen pay attention.

Since retiring I got a dream job at a gun store. I send out the internet ammo orders via UPS.
Fact, 99.99% of all drivers are super honest nice guys, who could care less what you bought.
The but is we have had problems with theft.

To their credit UPS has a great security dept and makes good on the product and prosecutes the perp.

OP, express your concerns to the local UPS terminal management. They are committed to customer service and realize the driver is the face of their company to the public.

If he does have a personal problem they got a great employee assistance program. Might be doing him a favor. If he just had a bad day he might get some reeducation. If his intentions are nefarious, they will stongly counsel all the drivers with an inservice on company policy.

Then harden and layer your home defenses.

Just what exactly do you plan on saying to the UPS driver's management? That he delivered the package properly but wasn't sufficiently sociable?

I suggest that you and the OP take a look in the mirror and subject yourselves to the same level of psychological scrutiny you're putting this poor driver through just because "he knows".

 

[goon]

So your concern is that, knowing you have several thousand rounds of ammunition to potentially shoot at him, this UPS guy has gotten it in his head to rob you?

Were I intent on robbing someone and surviving, I think I'd want to choose someone who didn't have several thousand rounds of ammo. But that's just me.

 

[Yeager]

Then why not put an advertisement in the paper with what guns you have, and your address, as well as when you are not home? Try it, and report back how it goes.

Hello apples, meet oranges.

When I hear the term Opsec the image of a mall ninja comes to mind.

 

[MarkDozier]

Just to throw my professional military opinion in the OP has no grasp of what OPSEC is.
He is clearly confusing physical security with operational security.

 

[fbernar]

My UPS guy AND Fedex guy run. Why? Because they are in a huge hurry.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Get to know your UPS guy; I use a shipping center and the Lady who runs it is a Gun nut. She takes care of our local gun shop and anybody they refer to her for repair shipping or ammo.

 

[Toforo]

Educate yourself, all it takes is paying attention to the news. Here's a 2 second google search with tons of stories of UPS drivers stealing packages. I hear about it here all the time. Along with USPS, FedEX, etc.



UPS Driver, Wife Team Up to Steal Packages, Sell Merchandise on eBay

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013230-504083.html


UPS Worker Accused Of Stealing Packages

http://www.kcra.com/r/22052960/detail.html

UPS worker charged with stealing packages

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/aug/13/ups-driver-charged-stealing-packages/

More.
http://www.google.com/search?q=peop..._gc.r_pw.&fp=999deff09172bf35&biw=779&bih=389

GREAT examples of UPS delivery employees stealing PACKAGES!!

Since your cited examples are different than your original stated concerns -

- were you able to find any examples to show us about UPS delivery employees master-minding a home-invasion or break-in to steal what they had previously delivered?

 

[newbuckeye]

For a fee you could use a common package delivery location like a Mailboxes Etc. But that will eat into the savings on the bulk ammo and going to pick it up.

That is exactly what I do. (UPS Store) I also have a psycho ex wife so It helps me with my OPSEC in more ways than one.

 

[oneounceload]

Of course, the OP's Large ammo purchase has never been defined. A green dry box from Cabela's with a few hundred rounds? A truckload of AP surplus? Or something in between.

Since there about as many crooked cops as UPS drivers, perhaps you should be worried if you have a CCW as now they know you have a gun. Don't forget your homeowner's insurance rep, because you DO have your firearms insured with a separate rider to cover losses, right?

How about the credit card companies that can track your purchases and see where you have been shopping. Don't forget all those "cookies" trackers from buying on-line.

After looking at it, half the world has the info you bought some ammo. Doesn't mean you need to buy a mountaintop bunker.....

 

[89yj]

I can't imagine that many UPS employees would risk a home burglary or home invasion. It would seem much easier for them to steal packages enroute or reroute them to another address.
It's probably harder to do now that there is more computer tracking, but I remember how easy it would have been to simply relabel a package when I worked there about 15 years ago.

Fact is, UPS and FedEx have plenty of dishonest employees (and plenty of examples thereof), they are not nearly dilligent enough about rooting them out, and you and I pay for those shortcomings.

UPS is the only union company I've ever worked for. It left a very bad impression on me that the union would go to great lengths to protect employees that really should have been fired.