National African American Gun Association info

[hso]

We shouldn't ignore the simple fact that people associate with those they're familiar with. If you're part of a subset of all Americans that don't traditionally have an identification with firearms and who have had significant pressure against firearms applied by Antis and society in general having a group you can immediately identify with from a race, sex, ethnicity basis that promotes responsible firearms ownership helps remove a barrier to learning about firearms, enjoying them and countering the Anti propaganda. I support Blazing Sword and have taught LGBTQ folks to shoot for years. I also teach women to shoot. I do both for free to get people who aren't part of the mainstream firearms community involved in shooting and self defense and to counter Anti myths/propaganda. That benefits all of us in the firearms community because those folks influence others' attitudes about the shooting community.

 

[coyotehitman]

I don't support any group that segregates based on color.

 

[eastbank]

why is it important give your race or gender on the 4473? i did find out i,m non hispanic-white. who would ever have thought that. eastbank.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"why is it important give your race or gender on the 4473?"

For the same reason they enter race and gender on a police report: forensic identfication.

 

[eastbank]

ok, whats with the non-hispanic white. i was just plain old white for over 70 years. i would like to just once put, eye,s-two, race-lost, hair-gone, weight-alot, highth-not enough. eastbank.

 

[grampajack]

I would be eternally suspicious of any organization that predicated its membership on race, no matter how benevolent they may appear to be. Racial division of any kind only leads to one place, and it's not good. Can you imagine the alarm if there were a whites only gun club? Oh yea, it's called the KKK....

 

[khari]

One major exception. Most minority clubs don't exclude members of other races. I believe the NAAGA would be open to accepting white members. What would happen if a black person showed up at a Klan meeting?

 

[grampajack]

One major exception. Most minority clubs don't exclude members of other races. I believe the NAAGA would be open to accepting white members. What would happen if a black person showed up at a Klan meeting?

I wouldn't guarantee your safety showing up to an all black gun club, regardless of what they claim publicly. Any organization that predicates itself on race is bound to attract the wrong kind of gun owner. What if you started a National Caucasian American Gun Association? Do you think a black person would feel safe showing up to that? Of course they wouldn't, and with good reason. The only people you could get to join such an organization would be KKK and Aryan Nations types, and any sane person would have nothing to do with it. Anytime you have an organization predicated on race, racists is what you attract.

 

[khari]

Completely untrue. Clubs that are based on race/ethnicity are really no different than clubs that are based on gender. Women don't join women's shooting clubs because they hate men, they join because they want to find people they can shoot with who they have things in common with.

And let's be honest. The NRA has been around since 1871. At one point it was the National Caucasion American Gun Association. That's no longer the case, and minorities are slowly joining.

 

[grampajack]

Completely untrue. Clubs that are based on race/ethnicity are really no different than clubs that are based on gender. Women don't join women's shooting clubs because they hate men, they join because they want to find people they can shoot with who they have things in common with.

And let's be honest. The NRA has been around since 1871. At one point it was the National Caucasion American Gun Association. That's no longer the case, and minorities are slowly joining.

There's an actual difference between men and women. That's why we play different sports and have different locker rooms, bathrooms, etc. There's no more difference between a black and white person than there is between a blonde and a brunette. There's just no practical reason to have racially specific, and in fact racist, gun clubs. There's absolutely no good reason whatsoever that black, hispanic, asian, and white people can't all be in the same gun clubs. We absolutely do not want racism of any kind in the gun community. No good can come of it.

 

[khari]

I understand your position and in a perfect world, it would be this way. The fact is though, there is a lot of racism in the gun community (spend a little time on some other gun forums and you'll know what I mean), and it isn't coming from the minorities. Any chance you live in GA? I've never been to a NAAGA function but I would like to go to one with you. I believe it might be enlightening.

 

[Hanzo581]

I don't see anything wrong with a group that caters to minorities. I haven't been to many gun group meetings/gathering but the ones I have been to have been whiter than a loaf of Wonder. It can make people apprehensive when engaging with a new group, I see this as a gateway into something they might be interested in and anything that furthers interaction into firearms/shooting is good with me.

 

[grampajack]

I understand your position and in a perfect world, it would be this way. The fact is though, there is a lot of racism in the gun community (spend a little time on some other gun forums and you'll know what I mean), and it isn't coming from the minorities. Any chance you live in GA? I've never been to a NAAGA function but I would like to go to one with you. I believe it might be enlightening.

I do not, and would not go within ten miles of one of their meetings. I think I know which forum you're speaking of, and yes it's completely unacceptable, but those people do not represent the gun community in general. Why the mods there put up with it I have no idea. Black people, or any other race, have absolutely no valid reason whatsoever to fear going to any regular gun club in the country.

I don't see anything wrong with a group that caters to minorities. I haven't been to many gun group meetings/gathering but the ones I have been to have been whiter than a loaf of Wonder. It can make people apprehensive when engaging with a new group, I see this as a gateway into something they might be interested in and anything that furthers interaction into firearms/shooting is good with me.

Then you must not see any problem with a whites only gun club, and that would be a problem. Being a minority doesn't mean crap. Racism is racism, regardless of who or where it is.

Think about it this way. White people are a minority in Africa. Do you think that makes it okay for them to start forming whites only clubs there? Of course it doesn't. It's high time we cut the BS and drop this ridiculous double standard that it's okay for some races to institutionalize racism.

 

[Hanzo581]

Then you must not see any problem with a whites only gun club, and that would be a problem. Being a minority doesn't mean crap. Racism is racism, regardless of who or where it is.

Think about it this way. White people are a minority in Africa. Do you think that makes it okay for them to start forming whites only clubs there? Of course it doesn't. It's high time we cut the BS and drop this ridiculous double standard that it's okay for some races to institutionalize racism.

That's a very easy position to hold as a white person. We fit in pretty much anywhere and there are very few groups/organizations that we'd feel uncomfortable being a part of. Like someone said earlier, in a perfect world people would simply ignore each others race, but we don't live in that world. There is also a difference in a group that caters to a certain race and a group that prohibits other races from joining.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I do not, and would not go within ten miles of one of their meetings. I think I know which forum you're speaking of, and yes it's completely unacceptable, but those people do not represent the gun community in general. Why the mods there put up with it I have no idea. Black people, or any other race, have absolutely no valid reason whatsoever to fear going to any regular gun club in the country.



Then you must not see any problem with a whites only gun club, and that would be a problem. Being a minority doesn't mean crap. Racism is racism, regardless of who or where it is.

Think about it this way. White people are a minority in Africa. Do you think that makes it okay for them to start forming whites only clubs there? Of course it doesn't. It's high time we cut the BS and drop this ridiculous double standard that it's okay for some races to institutionalize racism.

do you have a problem with, Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership? http://www.jpfo.org/

I see no problem with a gun club catering to minorities. or any group, for that matter. if whites want an exclusive gun club, so be it, I'm cool with that too.
at most gun related functions ive been to, white is pretty much the default setting anyway. at gun shows around denver, whites easily outnumber blacks 500-1.

I went to highschool as a white minority, and so maybe I can empathize a little bit. We should be free to assemble peaceably with whoever we want, for whatever we want.

 

[grampajack]

do you have a problem with, Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership? http://www.jpfo.org/

I see no problem with a gun club catering to minorities. or any group, for that matter. if whites want an exclusive gun club, so be it, I'm cool with that too.
at most gun related functions ive been to, white is pretty much the default setting anyway. at gun shows around denver, whites easily outnumber blacks 500-1.

I went to highschool as a white minority, and so maybe I can empathize a little bit. We should be free to assemble peaceably with whoever we want, for whatever we want.

They're not a racial organization, but rather a religious one. No different than a Christian or atheist group. If you had taken the time to research both groups the difference would obvious to you. Most strikingly, the JPFO doesn't ask you your race when you join. The JPFO is also about protecting the Second Amendment, not subverting it for their own purposes. They argue for the rights of all races, not just Jews. Also take a look at the photo gallery of the NAAGA; not only does it not show any white members, but there's a photo of Huey P Newton, one of the founders of the Black Panthers. They cropped out the big Black Panthers sign behind him (it's a well known photo), so I can't help but feel that they have an agenda just below the surface and are taking measures to represent themselves as one thing when they are in fact another just below the surface. They also features quotes from Stokely Carmichael, who started the Pan African movement and was active in the Black Panthers, and at a time when they were killing police officers, and was also trying to organize a communist takeover of all African countries.

Their mission statements:

JPFO: Destroy so-called “gun control” (code words for disarming innocent people). Expose the misguided notions that lead people to seek out so-called “gun control”. Encourage Americans to understand and defend all of the Bill of Rights for all citizens. The Second Amendment is the “Guardian” of the Bill of Rights.

Excerpts from NAAGA mission statement (too long to post):

"WE ARE A CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATION FOCUSED ON SELF PRESERVATION OF OUR COMMUNITY THROUGH ARMED PROTECTION AND COMMUNITY BUILDING." (emphasis added)

"Our organization was formed to advocate Self defense with the use of Firearms based on the 2nd Amendment but a Secondary and very important function of NAAG is to be active on social issues. By collectively working together with a defined strategy we can begin correcting social injustice."

Note how the JPFO is focused on preserving the 2nd Amendment for everyone, whereas the NAAGA is concerned only with using it to protect their community.

This should tell you where their members' heads are politically (as in what kind of mindset they're attracting): http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/us/african-american-gun-club-trump/index.html

and...

http://www.guns.com/2017/02/27/african-american-gun-club-membership-surges-after-trump-election-win/

This fact alone should worry everyone, including black Americans. Their members are basically spouting the same things as antifa, BLM, and New Black Panthers. And given the NAAGA's support for the likes Huey P Newton on their website I can't help but feel that's exactly the kind of groups they're trying to attract. It would be interesting to research their chapters and see how many of them are associated with those groups.

 

[khari]

You said the entire vision statement was too long to post, but I feel like you cherry picked a bit here, grampajack. The whole statement:

THE GOAL OF THE NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION IS TO HAVE EVERY AFRICAN AMERICAN INTRODUCED TO FIREARM USE FOR HOME PROTECTION, COMPETITIVE SHOOTING, AND OUTDOOR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES. WE ARE A CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATION FOCUSED ON SELF PRESERVATION OF OUR COMMUNITY THROUGH ARMED PROTECTION AND COMMUNITY BUILDING.

THE NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION PROVIDES A NETWORK FOR ALL AFRICAN AMERICAN FIREARM OWNERS, GUN CLUBS AND OUTDOOR ENTHUSIASTS.

WE WELCOME PEOPLE OF ALL RELIGIOUS, SOCIAL, AND RACIAL PERSPECTIVES . WE ESPECIALLY WELCOME AFRICAN AMERICAN MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND ACTIVE/RETIRED MILITARY.


Maybe it's just me, but I don't get anything racist from that. It seems to me that the first sentence in the statement echoed exactly what several members in this thread have said.

 

[grampajack]

You said the entire vision statement was too long to post, but I feel like you cherry picked a bit here, grampajack. The whole statement:

THE GOAL OF THE NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION IS TO HAVE EVERY AFRICAN AMERICAN INTRODUCED TO FIREARM USE FOR HOME PROTECTION, COMPETITIVE SHOOTING, AND OUTDOOR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES. WE ARE A CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATION FOCUSED ON SELF PRESERVATION OF OUR COMMUNITY THROUGH ARMED PROTECTION AND COMMUNITY BUILDING.

THE NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION PROVIDES A NETWORK FOR ALL AFRICAN AMERICAN FIREARM OWNERS, GUN CLUBS AND OUTDOOR ENTHUSIASTS.

WE WELCOME PEOPLE OF ALL RELIGIOUS, SOCIAL, AND RACIAL PERSPECTIVES . WE ESPECIALLY WELCOME AFRICAN AMERICAN MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND ACTIVE/RETIRED MILITARY.


Maybe it's just me, but I don't get anything racist from that. It seems to me that the first sentence in the statement echoed exactly what several members in this thread have said.

There's more on other pages. Besides, you totally ignored everything else I said. Tell you what. You show up to your local chapter wearing a Trump shirt and tell me how that goes.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I want to know that they aren't a shill organization and if they are not in a few years I will likely join. I joined pretty much all the others including JFPO (not Jewish, but I support the fight on all fronts) so even though I'm not AA I'll be happy to join them once I have a bit more faith in them and their direction.

Do think it would be better if they joined one of the larger ones already out there. However, maybe they will win some arguments which the others couldn't win. The power of thousands of AA supporting a pro-gun platform in some areas will get much more attention than if the NRA, SAF, or others did the same thing.

 

[Hanzo581]

I want to know that they aren't a shill organization and if they are not in a few years I will likely join. I joined pretty much all the others including JFPO (not Jewish, but I support the fight on all fronts) so even though I'm not AA I'll be happy to join them once I have a bit more faith in them and their direction.

Do think it would be better if they joined one of the larger ones already out there. However, maybe they will win some arguments which the others couldn't win. The power of thousands of AA supporting a pro-gun platform in some areas will get much more attention than if the NRA, SAF, or others did the same thing.

Look at it as a gateway for them. Most of us that are members or contributors to a group don't pick just one, it's several. Same for them, foot into the door of responsible gun ownership with the NAAGA, next, the NRA or NSSF or whatever other group.

 

[grampajack]

Look at it as a gateway for them. Most of us that are members or contributors to a group don't pick just one, it's several. Same for them, foot into the door of responsible gun ownership with the NAAGA, next, the NRA or NSSF or whatever other group.

Gateway to what, that's the million dollar question. At this point, judging from their website and what they said in those articles, I think they're a gateway to racial extremism, not to patriotism or constitutionalism. When you have photos and quotes from communist, cop killing terrorists on your website I think you make it pretty clear exactly what kind of gateway you're providing, and to whom that gateway leads.

 

[Hanzo581]

Gateway to what, that's the million dollar question. At this point, judging from their website and what they said in those articles, I think they're a gateway to racial extremism, not to patriotism or constitutionalism. When you have photos and quotes from communist, cop killing terrorists on your website I think you make it pretty clear exactly what kind of gateway you're providing, and to whom that gateway leads.

EDIT: Never mind, you've already made up your mind about who you want them to be.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Gateway to what, that's the million dollar question. At this point, judging from their website and what they said in those articles, I think they're a gateway to racial extremism, not to patriotism or constitutionalism. When you have photos and quotes from communist, cop killing terrorists on your website I think you make it pretty clear exactly what kind of gateway you're providing, and to whom that gateway leads.

And so, you have found your reason not to like them. Their views. And though there is overlap....it is not a race issue.
Your original premise was simply, that you don't agree with race based organizations.

I can sympathize with your distaste for the other social aspects they find a cause in.

They're not a racial organization, but rather a religious one

Don't tell them that! There's a whole lot of Jews who feel that converts need not apply. You are Hebrew by birth, or you are not Jewish.
I love the cause, plight, and story of Jerusalem and its people. But I gotta tell ya, the worst cases of discrimination and condescension I've ever personally felt, were by those chosen people.

People of every stripe are dumb and all messed up. Doesn't mean we can't congregate

 

[grampajack]

And so, you have found your reason not to like them. Their views. And though there is overlap....it is not a race issue.
Your original premise was simply, that you don't agree with race based organizations.

I can sympathize with your distaste for the other social aspects they find a cause in.



Don't tell them that! There's a whole lot of Jews who feel that converts need not apply. You are Hebrew by birth, or you are not Jewish.
I love the cause, plight, and story of Jerusalem and its people. But I gotta tell ya, the worst cases of discrimination and condescension I've ever personally felt, were by those chosen people.

People of every stripe are dumb and all messed up. Doesn't mean we can't congregate

Okay...I've honestly never heard of anyone claiming they were discriminated against by Jews. I think in a lot of ways they're like the neighborhood dog that's been kicked too many times, and may be wary of outsiders for that reason, and justifiably so. You also have to realize that it's considered a type of curse to be born Jewish. They will convert you, but you have to be turned away and if you come back and ask a third time then they will convert you. In their belief system, a person who is born Jewish doesn't have a choice, and they will go to hell if they don't follow every single law. Whereas a gentile only has to follow a few of them to go to heaven. Not heaven exactly...they believe everyone goes to the underworld when they die, but the righteous go to nicer places than the unrighteous. It's complicated. If you want to know more just PM me. I'm not Jewish so I wouldn't try to convert you or anything, but I know some about them from Bible studies. I can assure you they are the victims, not the criminals. Also important to realize they have always tolerated intermarriage, and they recognize Jews of all races. Various patriarchs took foreign wives in biblical history, so you have Caucasian Jews, Semitic Jews, black Jews, Hispanic Jews, even a few Asian ones. They don't care what race you are, only who you're descended from. There's just no argument that can be made for Jewish racism that doesn't fall flat on its face.

Most importantly though, the JPFO doesn't have any racist ideology. They're working within their own community to rally support for the 2nd Amendment, whereas the NAAGA is coopting it for their own purposes, which aren't in keeping with the constitution. It's no different than if there were a Baptist or Methodist or Catholic organization to rally members of its faith, and that's certainly not racist by any stretch of the imagination.

EDIT: Never mind, you've already made up your mind about who you want them to be.

I did no such thing. I would want them to be something very different, but that doesn't change facts. The fact is that they're a race based organisation who champion the likes of the Black Panthers and Huey P Newton. And what's more, their chosen Newton quote was to advocate violence. And what is the object of this violence? I don't think I have to explain that to you, considering these are people who react to Trump's election by arming themselves for no legitimate reason.

Don't make me the bad guy for pointing out the facts of the case. I didn't put those photos and quotes on their website, they did. You sir are the who made up your mind about who you want them to be and are now resorting to passive aggression because your emotional analysis of the situation didn't pan out in the facts.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Grampajack,

I generally love Jewish people and though I don't know every detail, I know enough of their history to understand where theyre coming from.
I have a lot of respect for them. they've been kicked down and knocked around throughout history, and they stand back up every time.

I'm going to backpedal on my discrimination remark. it was never so harsh as hostility....merely exclusion from even common civility, because I wasn't jewish. things like that...easily brushed aside. ive known some remarkably wonderful Jews as well.

I'm kinda leaning towards your POV too, on the topic at hand. while I still think groups can get together for whatever common ground they want....
this group may be harboring some hostility.

what white gun owner from Africa will try to join and find out?