ND/AD,,,you make the call...

[280PLUS]

i'm at the range yesterday with the hi power and i'm practicing picking up the gun off the bench, cocking, firing double taps and decocking with a round in the chamber, my muzzle was ALWAYS pointed downrange

now to decock is a little tricky because you have to pull the hammer back and then pull the trigger, the you lower the hammer to a half cock position (THAT IS NOT A SAFETY, INCIDENTLY) and then repeat the procedure to put the hammer in the decocked position.

the gun is relatively new, so that hammer is tough

anyhow, near the end of this exercise of 100 rounds i had what we call around here a brain fart

i forgot to pull the hammer back before pulling the trigger

to which the gun responded with its obligatory loud bang

scared the living doo doo outta me!!

the round went safely downrange

ND/AD,,,you make the call...

i was excessively mad at me BTW so i don't need anymore grief than i already gave myself

 

[dakotasin]

nd.

file the incident in your 'things to not forget file', and move on.

 

[Graystar]

Well, the gun operated as expected, so it's clearly an ND. But it is interesting. Reminds me of people claiming that they practice undoing the safety and firing, so if the time ever come to defend, they will be able to undo the safety and shoot. Seems risky to me. That's why I'm a Glock person.

 

[Delmar]

I would call it an ND, but your saving grace was the fact that you had the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, so what was hurt the most was your feelings. Rule number one at the Casa Del Delmar is WATCH WHERE THE MUZZLE IS POINTED. The safety rules are all very important, but where the muzzle is pointed is king, absolute, and not ever to be skipped, even for a moment.

Bet that one got your undivided attention! Personally, I hope for things to happen like that for shooters getting a bit too complacent WITH no bad result-it will make you refocus your safety awareness as few other things will.

BTW, do you carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber? Not calling it a bad thing-firearms are only as safe as the person carrying them, but dry practice is a good thing too if you are trying to develop a certain carry practice.

 

[shermacman]

I have a lever action Henry with the same decock system. And the same negligent discharge while reloading...pulling the trigger with my thumb on hammer to set the hammer in 'locked' position. Thumb slips off of hammer with the resulting crack of 38 grains of lead breaking the sound barrier. The barrel was pointed down range. I quit for the day. Scared the living daylights out of me.

 

[280PLUS]

i don't normally carry it, too bulky, too hard to conceal. plus the S/A makes it too tricky for me to trust in a bad situation, ive got a sa/da snubbie revolver for that.

it's more of a SHTF gun but i practice with it a couple times a month.

youre probably right about the dry decock, i mean i have done it dry many times prior to this but i was trying to get a feel for doing it live

next time i'll only load 2 rounds at a time so the decock will always be dry in practice

defintely got my attention, definitely learned me something new

as fars as a round in the chamber with the hammer down, the manual says it can be carried this way but browning does not recommend it.

it it is NOT to be carried in the half cock position with a round in the chamber like some others ive seen, they point out quite clearly that it is not a safety feature (FWIW)

thanx, i'll be back later to read some more...

 

[Al in Md]

I have to call this a A/D-N/D. Any time a surprise discharge occurs a mistake on your part has been made. I had one with a 1911 style pistol. In my first shooting session with it I shot to slide lock, Inserted a full mag, left my finger on the trigger and released the slide lock lever with my thumb. The momentum of the slide going to battery pitched the gun forward in my hand and with the light and short trigger caused the gun to fire. It was pointed down range and other than my pride no harm. I was lucky in the fact that I was at the range alone and my stupidity was not seen by others. My obvious error was leaving my finger on the trigger, a gross violation of the basic safety rules. Take it as a lesson learned and practice safe gun handling in the future. Al

 

[Atticus]

UD- unintentional discharge. Glad to hear no one was hurt.

 

[Jim March]

The good news is, in order to do actual damage you have to break TWO rules at once (any two, pretty much).

Muzzle direction is the absolute #1. And at a range with a good backstop, if you send a round into said backstop, I have a hard time calling that a real problem. More like a perfectly safe learning experience, which is what ranges are for so...by all means learn, but don't beat yourself up.

 

[keyhole]

2 kinds of shooters, those who have, and those who will.

Put me in the first class. Glad that I was pointing in a safe direction, just did not keep the main rule, keeping finger off trigger!

Happens.

:banghead:

 

[AK103K]

mmm, I'm a little confused. Why are you trying to lower the hammer on a loaded round anyway? The HP is meant to be carried cocked and locked, like a 1911. There is no "decock", and as you mentioned, the half cock is not a safety. If your not comfortable carrying it cocked and locked, then practice charging it from hammer down on an empty chamber. I think the only unsafe part about what your doing is trying to lower the hammer on the loaded round.
You mentioned that you dont carry it because its to bulky and hard to conceal, and "tricky". I dont understand this, especially the "too tricky for me to trust in a bad situation" part. Whats up with that? With the right holster, the HP is very easy to conceal.

 

[P95Carry]

U/D ...... hmmm, rather like that Atticus! ....... well, U/D bordering on N/D ..... but as noted already - of much more harm to the ego than any object. Been there and done that ... tho in my case it was ''pre-target turn pressure'' whilst in ready position .... revo was cocked .... round buried itself into ground.

As a generalization I think N/D is invariably the case ..... simply because something has to have been overlooked .... but if the main rule of all (to me) is not broken (do not point at anything you would not wish to destroy) ...... then little harm will arise.

 

[riverdog]

I agree with AK103K. My first reaction to your initial post was "there's no decock on a BHP!" I consider this practice with any SA semi-auto to be unsafe in concept. Start from Condition 3, full magazine, empty chamber and just rack the slide to get to Condition 0. It's just as fast and much safer. Cocking the pistol in condition 3 is fine but not necessary.

 

[Beav]

I know at least one of my handgun manuals advises against decocking in this method and my S&W 686+ manual advises against staging the trigger for probably the same reason.

 

[Peetmoss]

You made a mistake and violated 1 rule. Therefore it was negligent. However you followed the other 3 so it was a good learning expierance. I hope this is the only one you ever have.

 

[hksw]

IMO, ND.

Gun functioned normally and did not fire due to damage.

Operator did not function properly.

Not to berate you, just what the incident boiled down to for me. Hopefully, when an ND will eventually happen to me, it will be in a similar environment as yours.

 

[TechBrute]

ND

Some people will tell you there is no such thing as an AD. I disagree. An AD is when the gun does not function properly, such as slam firing. Provided basic safety rules are followed, and noone was hurt, then that's an AD.

A ND is when the gun functions as expected and fires like it's supposed to. This event was definately a ND.

As a side note, I've never figured out why people insist on decocking single action guns on a live round. It's just asking for trouble.

 

[Old Fuff]

I don't know how you lower the hammer, but with a Browning Hi-Power I prefer to hold the gun in my strong (right) hand and lower the hammer with my weak (left) thumb placed accross the hammer spur.

What ever method you use, practice with an EMPTY gun untill the movements are a habit.

I am very forgiving toward those who always control the muzzle and keep it pointed in a safe direction or downrange. You did right.

 

[P95Carry]

As a side note, I've never figured out why people insist on decocking single action guns on a live round. It's just asking for trouble.

I tend top agree for the most part .. but would mention that IF this is desired, then IMO it can be made way safer by use of weak hand thumb, placed just over the area to rear of firing fin protrusion (on HP I am thinking of here) ... perhaps even a little above.

Then, as right thumb lowers hammer whilst trigger pulled, the other thumb is there as a ''stop'', at least until hammer all but down. If a mistake made then perhaps a bit of damage to weak hand thumb but - unlikely anything much worse.

 

[Feanaro]

ND. Ya broke a rule and forgot the hammer. (No offense, just calling it like I see it) But you were pointing it down range, so you get points for that.

Although I don't know why you would want to practice decocking, that's not the way it's supposed to work. And I also don't see why you did it with live rounds. But as long as you don't have anymore NDs then keep truckin' however ya want.

 

[P95Carry]

Fuff .... hehe! Great minds ........... or something! Ya beat me to it ... just!

 

[ojibweindian]

You've committed an ND.

You've done enough pennance, now go and sin no more.

 

[Erik]

ND - live and learn.

 

[cool45auto]

ND. Don't beat yourself up about it, could have been worse.

 

[280PLUS]

reread the manual...

as a matter of fact, here it is now

pg 2 rule #3 - 'Do not carry the Hi Power with a round in the chamber"

(furthermore) "For good safety practice, it is RECOMMENDED (my capitals) that a round not be chambered until immediately before your pistol is to be fired"

Rule #4 "The recommended carring position of the hi-power is with the hammer in the dropped position"

(furthermore) "Carefully follow the procedures for lowering the hammer from the cocked to the decocked position explained later in this book"

Rule #14 "Dropping your Hi-Power when loaded can cause an accidental discharge even with the hammer in the dropped position"

pg 7 "Operation of the Hammer"

"The Browning Single Action pistol has an exposed hammer with dropped, half cock, and full cock positions. The hammer spur is serrated to help insure positive control while manually cocking and lowering the hammer

DROPPED POSITION--
"This is the recommended carrying position of the hammer WHETHER THERE IS A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER OR NOT"
(my capitals, then they follow with their capitals, in red)

"DO NOT CARRY A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER"

i translate this into "we know youre going to carry with a round in the chamber but if you do and you or someone else gets hurt, its your fault not ours cause we told you not to, so don't try to sue us"

i personally want a ccw that i can pull and shoot, no cocking, no safety to worry about releasing in a panic situation, fool proof protection, thats why i carry the revolver,

i figure ive got the bhp to use if there is imminent danger that i'm aware of and i have time to get it out of the safe, load it and if necessary, cock it.

as far as size/concealability goes, i work outside and climb a lot and get myself into pretty tight spots at times and in summer wear jeans and a tee shirt, a 1911 style pistol is not what you want to carry for this, believe me, beepers on my belt have caused me to get hung up and if you're up high this can be really not fun, so,,,

i carry a lightweight j frame snubbie in my pocket. this works for me as it doesn't get hung up when i'm trying to sqeeze into a tight spot

FWIW i was practicing one hand and i was FULLY aware of the fact that the gun could discharge during this practice, but i expected to be from the hammer slipping or my releasing it too quickly, not because i forgot to hold the hammer back before pulling the trigger.

i was attempting to determine what the threshold was on how fast you could lower the hammer before it would discharge,

FYI a few of my releases were fairly fast but did not result in discharge.

some lessons learned that day for sure!