neck tension advice for novice reloader

[Single action shooter]

loading 6.5 jap,30-30win,270win, intermittent setback issues any tips on achieving better neck tension? i am crinping and seating on same die but seperate step by backing off seater before crimping. i am loading on a lee 4 hole turret with lee dies for jap cartridge hornady for 30-30,and rcbs for 270 win. i dont have pictures right now but tonight after work i can share some.I have learned a ton from you guys already thank you in advance for any replies

 

[edwardware]

Good question. Neck tension is determined by the interaction of sizing die (neck and ball), brass thickness, and bullet diameter. Crimping cannot repair insufficient neck tension; excessive crimping can ruin perfectly good neck tension, so care is warranted.

To start, pick a case and measure the neck: fired, sized, and seated. It should shrink during sizing, then expand at least 0.002" during seating (that's 2 thou' neck tension).

With that data, we can probably point to your bullets, brass, or dies as the next step.

 

[MikeInOr]

I use the Lee collet crimp dies for every cartridge I reload in which they are available. Since I started using the Lee crimp dies about 25 years ago I stopped having any set back issues.

What Edwardware reccomends it the correct approach. The Lee collet crimp dies are probably just a bandaid approach... but they work great for me.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Edwardware have good advice on the amount of neck tension.
One other thing to look at is. Test neck tension before crimping. If you lose it after crimping. You have your crimp set wrong.
If it's the first issue. Pull your expander and see what the die is capable of sizing down too.
If it's small enough. Chuck the the expander in a drill and use emery cloth to polish it down to size.
Polishing an expander doesn't help if your die is too big.
PS: I don't crimp 95% of my ammo. 30-30 does get crimped just enough to sit in the canalure.

 

[Varminterror]

Crimp, in any form, is not neck tension.

You need to balance the diameter of your die neck, the diameter of your expander ball, the thickness of your brass, the diameter of your bullets, and your desired neck tension.

 

[Single action shooter]

ok thank you all for your replies i will measure neck tension tonight when i get home. i did trim all my 30-30 to the same length and i did crimp those not alot but i did crimp them. the 270 i did not crimp but i am just doing some trailboss reduced loads for it so that my wifes shoulder lasts a little longer at the range, i just got the 6.5 jap dies on wednesday so i havent reloaded any of those yet but with cases for that one being so rare i wanted to get them right the first time.

 

[Walkalong]

Crimp, in any form, is not neck tension.

Worth repeating.

 

[Ruger 15151]

I run .002 - 0025 neck tension on all my bottle neck cartridges (exc. Semi-auto which is .003-.004) with no crimp and never have any setback issues. As previously mentioned, crimping does NOT increase neck tension.

There are a couple of ways that you can increase neck tension:
1. Use some Emory cloth to reduce the diameter of your expander ball so that you end up with .002-.003 neck tension after brass springback.
2. Use a Bushing type sizing die (Redding, Hornady, Forester, etc) that allows you to interchange the neck sizing bushing so that you will end up with your desired neck diameter and tension
2. Remove the expander ball from your sizing die entirely and use and expander die and mandrel to set neck tension.

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...ls/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...-steel-expander-mandrels-prod33134.aspx?dym=y

If its plinking rounds, i just buff the expander ball to a diameter that provides .002-.0025 neck tension and call it good. If its precision loads, then I remove the expander ball from the sizing die and run an expander mandrel through the case neck in a separate step to set the exact neck tension I want. Expander mandrels can be ordered in .0005 increments although the standard caliber specific mandrel from Sinclair will do just fine.

Hope that gives you a few options.

 

[Walkalong]

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...ls/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...-steel-expander-mandrels-prod33134.aspx?dym=y

Good stuff.


The 21st Century version (right) is very nice as well.


And now Wilson makes some. Pic from Creedmoor Sports

 

[Single action shooter]

Thank you guys for the responses.This helps alot. i havent been able to hit the bench as much as i would like to but when i do i will measure the neck tension. at least now i know what measurement to look at and i definetly will be buying some expanding dies

 

[Ruger 15151]

Look for dies like Redding, Dillion, or Lyman M-style expander dies because they have a 2-stepped expander plug. They aid in seating the bullet straight and don’t require much, if any, flair at all. They work extremely well. Good luck!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Look for dies like Redding, Dillion, or Lyman M-style expander dies because they have a 2-stepped expander plug.

When did Dillon change their expander to the M-die profile?

A friend just got a Dillon 750 a couple months back and the expander that came with his 9mm die set wasn't anything close to a M-die profile. As a matter of fact, one of his first aftermarket purchases was the expanding insert from DAA which does add the M-die profile

 

[Walkalong]

I would be interested to know as well, RCBS, Redding, & Lyman are all I know of, short of aftermarket like NOE.

 

[Ruger 15151]

You guys are correct. I meant to include RCBS. My Dillion dies still have the standard expander plugs.

 

[MEHavey]

oading 6.5 jap,30-30win,270win, intermittent setback issues

To clarify: You're getting setback with bolt (and a lever) action?

 

[Single action shooter]

To clarify: You're getting setback with bolt (and a lever) action?

yes the 30-30 is a lever and the 270 is a rem 700. i was surprised the 270 was having an issue. i am using hornady sp bullets with connelure and i am seating to connelure i didnt realize there was a problem until the range officer called cold range and i ejected a round with the bullet setback dramatically in the case, after that i watched every round chamber carefully and found 2 or 3 more out of 60 or so that slid back into the case same story with the 30-30 but i was watching closely because of the tube mag i expected if i were to have setback issues it would be with that rifle (marlin 336)

 

[MEHavey]

I am crimping and seating on same die but separate step...

To have bullet set-back in a bolt action says something is terribly wrong.

EXPERIMENT: with an empty/sized case (assuming mouth is expanded during withdrawal from sizing die/over expander stem)
- Back the bullet seating die body off the case mouth at least a full turn
- Seat a bullet to req'd OAL by adjusting the seating stem only
- With solid hand pressure, push that cartridge/bullet tip into the side of your bench -- hard.

Does the bullet slip into the case ?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

To have bullet set-back in a bolt action says something is terribly wrong.

That's an understatement!

 

[kelbro]

Is your seating die set to crimp? That could explain what you are seeing. Set up improperly, that crimp step in the seater can cause this issue. Back off the die and adjust the plug down to your desired OAL.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I crimp "lightly", I believe each case HAS to be the same length in order to do this, I have had one set back in a Garand and then I started crimping. I use the LFC and just touch the case and let cam over perform the crimp, on 30-30, 35rem and 45-70s that are used in a lever action I follow the directions and apply more crimp.
The long range gurus have other ways to hold their bullets but for hunting rounds out to 1, 2 or 300yrds I prefer a little crimp.